This is a non-Campaign to Test Stuff

Game Master Tacticslion

Ah, well, I suppose you need more practice building fires, then, if the last attempt you made backfired upon you...

I tell you trying to start a fire from scratch is no easy task. I have no idea how to get started.

Me, being a city cat, have no ranks in survival.

You mean if you don't have a lighter or matches? Try Flint and steel, or a magnifying glass or friction.

I've used a magnifying glass, it wasn't for a camp fire, just a little random pyromania.

The magnifying glass thing might work since I always have a pair of glasses with me. Duh I'm a spectacled cat.

I apologize I couldn't think of anything witty to say and just wanted to indicate I'm still around. Afterall, my last attempt at being witty backfired.

I’m wit(t)y-a!

(Wow, this one was bad, even for me.)

I did t mean to... smother... the conversation topic with my comment. Feel free I continue with any... burning... questions or comments you may have wanted to make.

XD

I don't have anything to ask for now. Again work has been busier then usual, I'm trying to plan for a trip to japan in April despite knowing nothing about the place, and I don't even have time nor concentration to write a backstory for the buddy cop game.

And I've been coughing for two weeks.

I’ve been coughing since November. As a personal piece of advice: try not to do that. XD

I wish. But I just have to live with it. Yes, I've seen a doctor. More then once too. No it's still sticking around.

TL - I wish to withdraw from this ROTR game since it hasn't started yet. To Robert and Luke, good luck.

Um, okay!

Later!

TL - I wish to withdraw from this ROTR game since it hasn't started yet. To Robert and Luke, good luck.

Good luck to you also, Mort.

Sorry guys, I have no one to blame but myself. What do we do now?

Run a synthesist summoner, for the extra power/hit point buffer...?

Run a synthesist summoner, for the extra power/hit point buffer...?

LOL, I don't know how to respond to that...

Well, a Synthesist Summoner / Shadowdancer hybrid would be interesting - after all, having a Shadow companion from 3rd level is exceedingly tempting :-D

...

...

...

... so about those Mammoth Lord PrCs...

>.>

So, serious question time: you both still up for doing this?

Re: Mammoth Rider Prestige Class: Well, I must admit, the idea of riding around on a huge dire polar bear is tempting, but practically, it might be a tad inconvenient ;-)

So, serious question time: you both still up for doing this?

Sure. Do we want to do it with just two, or do we want to recruit one or two more.

We were originally going to try just three of us for speed sake. That may not be as high a priority now. Do we want to go to four and just play it straight?

Good question worth asking.

Okay, so, just clarifying: we want to keep the same general narrative, power, and style as before?

Also: are we speed-focused or narrative focused? Or is it a split?

I will tell you, no matter what you do, with your power, the combats are very likely going to be short and brutal for the bad guys (i.e. I can’t imagine tooooooooo much in the way of persistent challenge without strong changes to the stats).

Just as a quick check:
- arcane or Psionic power
- divine (includes nature-y) power
- martial power (able to be covered by the above)
- skill “power” (also able to be “faked” by the above)

You have all of this covered?

Also a point of clarification: how hard is hard rules? As a prominent example, do we do the whole official/unofficial “there are glossy lifhts to magic” even though that’s never been put in print? This means subtle casting requires three feats, meaning charm effects are not replacements for skills without substantial investment.

My preferences, as have been clarified, is that murderhobos at least have investment beyond murderhoboing for fun and profit. NPCs will likely care about your actions and choices.

Do we want to follow a different metanarrative, or is it acceptable to continue following the (distant) outcomes of these particular individuals?

I’m fine for “as before” plan, but I’m making sure we have everything covered in a way that will leave you narratively satisfied.

The other options include acquiring (an)other player(s) to increase our numbers or just go with two. Either way is fine, but I’ll need to adjust my GMing expectations and think about flow of narrative and encounters. Let me know! :)

that murderhobos at least have investment beyond murderhoboing for fun and profit. NPCs will likely care about your actions and choices.

I approve of this statement.

*thumbs up*

Since it's only book 1, Robert's gestalt for star gazer gives him some divine powers. I can't remember if he took shaman or oracle casting.

He may need to spec to do diplo since I was covering it. Luke can skill check as well as do arcane stuff. They'll miss out on disable device I suppose.

Okay, so, just clarifying: we want to keep the same general narrative, power, and style as before?

I'm totally ok with the same style as before

Also: are we speed-focused or narrative focused? Or is it a split?

A little of both, I will post two or three times a day, If there are interesting questions or what I think the character would find interesting or comments from players or NPC's I will happily carry on discussion.

But I like the 'narrative' to flow similar to a story line. I would get really frustrated with some of the "Wheel of Time" Books when Jordan would drag the story along from hour to hour dealing with seemingly nothing. After having developed characters or situations Occasionally these 'mundane things' would later affect the story, but rarely.

I will tell you, no matter what you do, with your power, the combats are very likely going to be short and brutal for the bad guys (i.e. I can’t imagine tooooooooo much in the way of persistent challenge without strong changes to the stats).

Just as a quick check:
- arcane or Psionic power
- divine (includes nature-y) power
- martial power (able to be covered by the above)
- skill “power” (also able to be “faked” by the above)

You have all of this covered?

I think so? Navarre has gone oracle spells, two handed attack (ranger) focusing on knowledge and communication skills and can pick up the 'trapper archetype' for disable device.

Also a point of clarification: how hard is hard rules? As a prominent example, do we do the whole official/unofficial “there are glossy lifhts to magic” even though that’s never been put in print? This means subtle casting requires three feats, meaning charm effects are not replacements for skills without substantial investment.

I'm ok with 'hard rules' being 'hard rules' use of magic isn't my forte. In my experience I prefer RAW

My preferences, as have been clarified, is that murderhobos at least have investment beyond murderhoboing for fun and profit. NPCs will likely care about your actions and choices.

That is to be expected.

Do we want to follow a different metanarrative, or is it acceptable to continue following the (distant) outcomes of these particular individuals?

I’m fine for “as before” plan, but I’m making sure we have everything covered in a way that will leave you narratively satisfied.

I'm ok with the metanarrative either way.

The other options include acquiring (an)other player(s) to increase our numbers or just go with two. Either way is fine, but I’ll need to adjust my GMing expectations and think about flow of narrative and encounters. Let me know! :)

I'm ok with just two, or adding another player or two, if we add players I would go to 'regular' classes instead of 'hybrid gestalt' I guess it depends on yours and Luke's expectations. I don't mind either way

TL wrote:

that murderhobos at least have investment beyond murderhoboing for fun and profit. NPCs will likely care about your actions and choices.

I approve of this statement.

*thumbs up*

Since it's only book 1, Robert's gestalt for star gazer gives him some divine powers. I can't remember if he took shaman or oracle casting.

He may need to spec to do diplo since I was covering it. Luke can skill check as well as do arcane stuff. They'll miss out on disable device I suppose.

Oracle casting,

Since Navarre is a ranger he can take the "trapper" archetype for disable device, he just won't be great at it with a dex of 14. He also has diplomacy and sense motive. So talking won't be an issue.

The question becomes if he wants to change his 'animal companion' to something a little more melee than a horse @ 4th level.

edit:If we want to go to four or five players I would rather invite people we know are consistent commited posters than to do a recruitment. Unfortunatly after the last dissaster I don't know that I should recomend anyone.

I think you guys should be able to do the first book fine. Low levels martial classes rule anyway, so party balance isn't called into question much.

Further on that then I cannot really say - because I lack GMing experience.

From experience, Luke has never recommended anyone. And yes I've asked him before. So for more people TL will either have to get his own contacts, or run recruitment.

To be honest, I can't even remember what I was going to play (or even the creation guidelines, for that matter).

You were doing arcane archer with bard casting for your PRC, wizard as standard class progression. I'm saying this just to show off my memory.

Also you were trying to draw features from inquisitor class, but which features, I don't know.

That's what I mean by too long breaks and everyone forgets what they were doing.

That much I was able to guess, but I meant more in terms of stat allocation, feats, the inclusion of the third class, et cetera.

I know he said if the PRC requires feats or skill ranks to enter, you get them all.

So you have the following Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow).

You took outsider trait, and beyond that I can't help.

*cough*

I meant, how many points do we have to spend ;-)

1) You must choose a single campaign trait, which must differ from each others' (the exact story of how long you've been there is adaptable - "born and raised" need not be an absolute statement - but it should somewhat influence your character backgrounds. You may choose two other traits - though I tend to prefer following the rules, if you have a compelling reason for "I really gotta have these two from this same category." perhaps we'll hash it out in the Discussion thread for the game.

2) I am glad to let you all gestalt, but I want your "second" class to be a a prestige class. You may ignore alignment restrictions (unless using your class abilities is inherently evil, such as sacrificing babies to a demon lord or something), spell casting prerequisites (though you need to choose a single class to progress your casting, if the class does), and base attack bonus. Required class abilities, skills, and feats are automatically granted to you as a "bonus" to your own. Required saves are reduced by two (minimum 0) and granted to you as a bonus to your own. Exactly what classes you can choose will be vaguely limited by your campaign trait, but I'm flexible enough to be swayed if you have a solid concept. I have seen most of your gestalt builds, and they generally go after, "this purpose, plus <extra>" - that 'extra' feature is pretty consistently able to be acquired via prestige class of some kind, and, to that end, I would like you to choose the PrC. Classes available come from: Core, Base, Hybrid, Occult, or Psionic. I am not familiar with Path of War, but have heard good things; talk to me, if it's a thing. I am also not familiar with the variant magic rules, but those, too, are on the table, if desired. I will be relying on those familiar with the systems to use them properly. If there is a third-party class you're hankering to take on... let me review it first.
3) choose a different 20-level class - you gain one feature of that class from ~2nd level, ~5th level, and ~11th level: if that feature changes quality or power with level, presume you're 11th level for determining it. If that feature is particularly lame, or non-extant, I'll work with you (for example, we may shop around for a 10th or 12th level ability in lieu of 11th; hence the "~" in front of the levels). You may choose an archetype, however you must follow the archetype's rules, here - if an archetype gives up something, you can't cheat your way around grabbing that. On the other hand, if you really want to exemplify a given class - such as, say, by grabbing two incompatible archetypes - work with me, and I'll be glad to do so with you.
4) I have three items/special effects I am granting to each character. These are metagame artifacts - specifically the scar of destiny (the in-game representative of people vanishing for some reason or another) and sliver of the amalgam mind (the in-game representation of group decisions made in the Discussion thread), both of which are in your characters since as long as you can remember, and each of you has discovered a singe hourglass of transfiguration at some point (just in case you're really dissatisfied with your character builds for any reason). Additionally, as a kind of "GM hint" mechanic, you collectively gain a (1/map) augury-like effect (CL = your level, but % correct is +9% more than normal for that spell) - in-character, each of you occasionally has "hunches" (or take impulsive actions that just kind of work out, or luck out/make lucky guesses, or experience moments of hypercognition, or however you want to flavor it) that tend to be accurate; don't abuse this; it's mean to help if you get stuck. In general this is limited to once per map (instead of once for each per map); assume off-screen your characters get something like this once per week or so to help out with "non-AP-essential" situations in-character.
5) While you guys can handle any resurrections that come up normally, I will be offering a partially in-character option as well. It is probably not as preferable as normal, but it will be there. This is partially related to the caveat below.
6) I want each of your classes to be as unique as possible - no overlap, if possible for your character concepts. If, on the other hand, you do have a strong concept that requires class overlap, sell me on it.
7) ... I don't know what I was going to write here; taking care of kids with ADD is a thing.

I am requesting this for two purposes - a) this provides flavor and focus for each of the characters and gives each of you (and me, and thus the world) a kind of "signature style" to know them by, and b) it lets me understand how to handle and think about your upcoming abilities. I am aware of pretty much every "broken" possibility this opens up, and, frankly, don't. By which I mean, "don't focus on how to get the most mathematical/numerical gain from this option, but instead come up with an interesting character." - this is not being against optimizing (heh, me against optimizing - that's funny), but rather I'm simply pointing out that you don't need it. You are part of a team: if we do this, I will want the three of you to chat about your builds together and develop something that works well, both for flavor, and for a team.
In requesting this, I'm not interested in forcing specific builds on people - instead, I'm pointing out a presupposition that I, as a GM, have, and will be looking at handling, as I can.
(Exclusively for the purpose of disclosure, I am of the opinion that there is a Caster/Martial-Disparity, and I understand it; I tend to think of casters' abilities as a feature, not a bug, and I understand the simplicity of the martials being a draw to many (though I would also enjoy there being powerful martial options). This is not meant as a convincing argument, but instead is meant to explain how I tend to view things.)

*cough*

I meant, how many points do we have to spend ;-)

Having not found it on the list, I believe it was 20 points, that's at least what I built Navarre at...

There is also this quote here

Luke_Parry wrote:

@Just a Mort: He was asking about *Pathfinder* prestige classes, not *Paizo* prestige classes - d20pfsrd only has the latter :-/

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactually, sir, while the first thing you said is correct, the second is not.

Those listed here are all by Paizo; those listed here, here, and here are not.

:)

Just a Mort wrote:

Luke: aren't paizo prestige clases and pathfinder prestige classes the same?

No, actually. The difference is that "Paizo" classes mean all classes that are not 3rd party. "Pathfinder" classes means that I allow 3rd party material, but not necessarily 3.X material.

(I love me some 3.5, but I'm less interested in doing conversions for older classes.)

Be advised that, outside of Dreamscarred Psionics, any 3rd party prestige classes must be approved first - mostly so I know exactly what I'm getting into. To that end, it's likely easier to just go with Paizo classes... but it's not necessary, if you know and have a character concept you're strongly attached to.

Robert Henry wrote:

Also TL, we've covered classes, traits, background skills, what about races and stats, 20 pt buy?

See, this is what I get for reskinning totally building wholecloth for sure and not definitely stealing anythingthatsforsure for an adventure instead of thinking about clarifying details.

That said, I meant what I said before: I'm generally okay with PC races.
To restrict it some, though, let's say it needs to come from Paizo, Alluria, Legendary Games, or Dreamscarred... or something you've been dying to play.
That said, if it's too unusual for the RotR game (in otherwords, if it is entirely unable to blend into the "normal" civilized races to some extent) it might cause problems integrating them. Things like aasimar (especially if they look more human than not, ala scion of humanity), changelings, dhampir, and similar are much easier to integrate than kobolds and goblins and drow*.
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20 point buy.
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Also: no evils! Please, thank you. I have nothing wrong with a well-played evil. I'm just not interested in that experiment today.
Fair warning: Saturday and Sunday are family days. I may well be out of contact for them.
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* Though if you found a way to consistently disguise yourself...

Let me tell you guys: at my weight, knuckle-pushups are tiring. It’s been a day and the arms are still hard to move.

Which is basically to say, “Thank you!” for finding and tracking all that down for me! :D

Also, just checking: We get the abilities from the 3rd class at 2nd, 5th, and 11th levels, respectively, not all at once at 1st, correct?

Eh Luke -

"That said, if it's too unusual for the RotR game (in otherwords, if it is entirely unable to blend into the "normal" civilized races to some extent) it might cause problems integrating them. Things like aasimar (especially if they look more human than not, ala scion of humanity), changelings, dhampir, and similar are much easier to integrate than kobolds and goblins and drow*. "

And drow noble? Really, Luke?

Nameless One feat or whatsoever you're still an exiled drow trying to walk among humans. Sure you're wearing a mask but any other skin exposed would show your heritage.

@Mort: You missed his qualifier...

*Though if you found a way to consistently disguise yourself...

*shrugs*

If that doesn't work, it just means I pick another race, and dump a stat or two (most likely charisma, at the very least).

EDIT: I'd probably just go 'normal' elf, and dump Wis to 9, and Cha to 7.

Up to TL. But I'd probably expect some ranks in disguise skill if you really were going to go around disguised all the time.

Edit:Honestly Elf makes more sense.

@Mort: Also, if I used the 'Masked Persona' rules from Inner Sea Intrigue, it helps to 'cover' my identity.

(That, and as per Golarion canon, only the elves know about the Drow, at the time Rise of the Runelords is set.)

@Mort: True, but if I go 'normal', his stat array *does* mean he is pretty anti-social (since he *really* can't do any of the social skills, even if he rolls well)...

Failing that, I can just go back to the drawing board...

EDIT: Actually, I'll just delete the PC, and start from scratch.

Talk to TL about it. Personally I think you are going against the spirit of the rules since he did say kobolds and drow were difficult to integrate.

I've already said I'm deleting him ;-)

I'll try to come up with something a little less MAD.

Heh.

There's always Pureblood Azlanti ;-)

EDIT: Actually, that would *actually* work! It also would appear pretty darn normal...

You know how I am, Luke. By the law I am bound.

Heh.

Now I am just poking the kitty ;-)

You say you are bound by the law, but in the previous breath said I was going against the spirit of it... which implies I am not going against the letter of the law, which is what you are (supposedly) bound by, as a lawyer :-P

----

Pureblood actually solves a number of problems, and opens a couple of other avenues to explore... I'll do some digging!

I am bound both by the spirit and the letter of the law.

Besides you can interpret difficult to integrate races like kobolds and drow =don't play them?

Or if you play them, be ready to constantly go around in disguise(show some ranks in disguise, get a hat of disguise, use disguise self etc).

Wow, I stopped checking the boards about an hour and forty five minutes ago due to necessities at work....

But Wow,

That's all I'm saying, Wow...

That and Navarre isn't a speciesist or a Lawyer, so Golan, have all the fun you want...

:-)

I don't want yelled at for arguing, what was up with that anyway?

Egads! I had not even noticed that had happened (since I had stopped monitoring that thread).

I guess the comments in the 'off topic' thread directed enough interest to the discussion thread, that the powers that be took an interest (a little late, admittedly, since it was a week and half since anyone else had posted, but still...).

Pureblood seems like the option to go to for the moment.

I am toying with whether I can find a better prestige class - I was going with arcane archer for the full BAB, and bonus feats, but with human, I can try something else.

So should I assume that were comfortable going with two players assuming I pick up 'trapper ranger'?

Also Golan, look at Navarre and tell me if there are any other changes I should make.

I will still start with a horse from the trait, but If we need more melee combat at fourth level I may do a different animal companion.