The World of Eafphqu: Team "good." (Inactive)

Game Master Hoary and Wizened

While I don't have Int16, apparently Lindaer does. So I'll assume he figured that out. ;)

Lindaer was absolutely one of the characters I thought would come to that conclusion. Both because of his criminal background, but also because of his training as a paladin. Paladins are taught to see evil where other people see only coincidence. :)

I've kicked down doors! For truth and justice! And because I work in a hotel and people lock themselves in.

I saw this last week, but totally forgot to post anything about it. Xanathar's Guide actually has rules for waking someone up from sleep that are more harsh than the rules we agreed on.

A creature that is naturally sleeping, as opposed to being in a magically or chemically induced sleep, wakes up if it takes any damage or if someone else uses an action to shake or slap the creature awake. A sudden loud noise -- such as yelling, thunder, or a ringing bell -- also awakes someone that is sleeping naturally.

Whispers don't disturb sleep, unless a sleeper's passive Wisdom (Perception) score is 20 or higher and the whispers are within 10 feet of the sleeper. Speech at a normal volume awakens a sleeper if the environment is otherwise silent (no wind, birdsong, crickets, street sound, or the like) and the sleeper has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 15 or higher.

So the official, adjusted, rules for waking someone up actually say that to wake someone up from magically or chemically (poisons/alchemy) induced sleep requires the use of their combat action.

How do you all feel about adopting the official rules, as opposed to my houserule that said you could wake someone with your free object interaction? Obviously the official rules are official, but since we already agreed to the houserule, I don't have a problem moving forward with that. Chime in when you get a chance.

:) MW

I think thatrule canbe interpreted to mean that slaping or shaking takes an action, but yelling to wake someone would not. Everyone else would know you are waking them too, though.

This makes sense. It leads to 2 things though. Sound can wake natural sleepers. I think when we were sleeping at the first camp this was an issue. Second I would like to submit that our efforts with string and rope and such have allowed for waking to be an interaction because we were literally tethered to each other.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at there Shenkt. The XGE rules say that if a character is magically or chemically asleep, another character has to use an action to wake them. When we talked about this we agreed that shaking or slapping could be, instead, the free "object interaction" that every PC gets as part of their combat round. I'm just trying to see if people want to keep running it how we have been, or go with the harsher, but official, rule from the XGE.

Ok...I see...I do not have a problem with running it as official rule states.

Also fine with the official from XG, its how the sleep spell works after all.

Might as well stick to the official rules as much as we can, I suppose.

The problem is, Sleep in 5e is not well-balanced. By RAW, the only ways to defend against it are to have huge numbers of hitpoints or being an elf/half-elf, and the only choices a player can make that affect either are made at character creation. There isn't even a save against the effect. Combine that with the fact that very early in the game (before we had a chance to amass the hitpoints needed to resist the effect), we were repeatedly coming up against multiple creatures that could apparently cast the spell at will, and using those rules would have meant that all of our non-elves would get one turn in combat if they won initiative, and then the elves would be the only ones able to participate.

Our first worm encounter basically went this way, and to be honest, it wasn't a very fun encounter aside from the mystery aspect. The second one was much better, since we were able to prepare something (which, I believe, should have worked without houseruling), but then for our next several encounters, we were forced into an environment where that wasn't possible. It also wasn't possible to scout to gain any type of advantage or to sneak past the worms (sorta what my character is built for), the terrain changed without warning, and even tactics involving spreading out were not possible until the last encounter. I repeatedly proposed trying to do something to allow us a defense (and just making the attempt helped shape my character), but was swiftly voted down by players who just wanted to fight things. While I'm being honest, the worms really should have killed us without even using their sleep ability, because they demonstrated the intelligence to set traps for us, and (because we were so ill-prepared) could easily have collapsed tunnels to bury or trap us before we reached their queen, and only Psalm had any chance of surviving that.

Now, I agree that our little houserule made dealing with the sleep condition too easy, and it probably tipped the balance of those encounters a little too far in our favor (once people started remembering to use that object interaction, anyway), but the inverse was MORE unbalanced in the other direction. Without it, that series of encounters would have quickly lead to multiple PC deaths (likely resulting in a TPK, since most of the PCs were defenseless), and even if it didn't, I think you would have had players quitting because being instantly disabled at the beginning of EVERY encounter without a save isn't very fun (especially when you aren't even allowed to do anything that might avoid the encounter). Even WITH the overly-easy wakeups, I was getting pretty frustrated for a while there.

Now that we (presumably) won't be coming up nearly so often, we should probably readjust the balance, but I still don't like the RAW version.

Quint, I hear you loud and clear. The monstrosities that were the dream worms (that's what I called them) were supposed to have that flavorful aspect of causing sleep because they feed on dream energy, and also the hive mind, because they were all supposed to be an extension of the "magical anomaly" that made them. That was done in an effort to convey the foreign nature of the creatures, and also the power of the magical force that created them. You are also right that, barring the occasional NPC caster with the spell, this group will certainly not be seeing sleep spells nearly so often. Thanks for sticking with it! Hopefully this next "chapter" in the story let's some of the other members of the party have their time to shine. :D

Eh. You know me by now Mended. I'll go with majority. I'm ok w/either.

Some loose ends that need to be tied up.

• Are you, or are you not, separating or destroying Arthugh's research?
• What is the group agreed on in terms of telling and not telling about Arthugh, his dead worms, his goblin accomplices, and his mysterious benefactor?
• Where are you headed, Blueblossom Haven? The nearest farmstead? (Which btw is Gaukridotr's.)
• What's the first avenue of investigation?

I don't care if you decide all this in Discussion or in-character in the Gameplay thread, but they are all things that need to be decided, before we can really push things forward.

I think we had NOT come to any consensus on destroying the research. I'm certainly voting to not do so.

Please lets NOT split up. Its hard enough to follow what is happening as it is :-)

Riiiight...no need to do that.

Split up the party? Not good. No.

Destroy this evil research that has little to no good use? YES!!! And if I can't get a majority agreement on that, Luna will insist we split it up into at least 3 parts or more & that she get one of the parts. If my count is correct we have nine party members? I say split it nine ways - if we are not destroying it.

Point of clarification, when I said "separating..." I meant separating the research journal, not the party. ;) :D

Yes, it was Jun in game-play that suggested splitting up.

Mended, I sent you a PM! :-D

I suppose the easiest answer is for everyone to vote, right? Majority rules on each point?

Destroying the research now. Psalm would be against. Later that might be a good idea. The same benefactor might have several mages trying to experiment on the same creatures or similar creatures.

Are you, or are you not, separating or destroying Arthugh's research?

Based on the recent developments, Gom would realize the cat is already out of the bag and therefore not care either way.

What is the group agreed on in terms of telling and not telling about Arthugh, his dead worms, his goblin accomplices, and his mysterious benefactor?

Not telling, there is really no point to.

Where are you headed, Blueblossom Haven? The nearest farmstead? (Which btw is Gaukridotr's.)

I say we hit the establishments mentioned in the journal after a pass by Gaukridotr's...maybe scouting with familiar or having Quint break in.

What's the first avenue of investigation?

Finding out who is responsible for it all and motive. At the moment it seems the Senator's daughters deaths was just an accident, need to confirm or revise that notion.

This is all just from Gom's perspective, not mine as a player. I'm personally game for whatever, even going in a *gasp* unintelligent direction.

On the party split note, I think it can be done in a way reminiscent of Gather Information. Different members state their different avenue's of investigation, make a few rolls, and those leads are resolved in at most 2 posts each. Then the party as a whole moves on. Saves a lot of time, especially in pbp.

Resesrch? Split it up among the party, destroy it once we've got all the use we can from it.

What are we telling? Bugger all until we know whose in what.

Where are we heading? I don't mind.

First Avenue to investigate? The fat Goblin seems the obvious lead for now.

•Are you, or are you not, separating or destroying Arthugh's research?

I would vote no, for now, as knowledge lost is lost forever.

•What is the group agreed on in terms of telling and not telling about Arthugh, his dead worms, his goblin accomplices, and his mysterious benefactor?

I would vote tell no one yet.

•Where are you headed, Blueblossom Haven? The nearest farmstead? (Which btw is Gaukridotr's.)

Checking for tracks works for me, since I suggested it!

•What's the first avenue of investigation?

I believe it should be the pocketwatch, since it's likely unique enough for thing like scrying to work on it.

I would agree to separating the research, but I'd lean toward not destroying it. I haven't weighed in on that in-character because I don't think Quint would have a strong opinion about what to do with magical knowledge when he can't think of any way that he might use it (and with the chronometer, spellbook, arcane foci, etc. that they found, he's more than a little distracted whenever the topic of the research comes up).

He has, however, expressed that he thinks they should keep the information about what they found a closely-guarded secret as they try to track down whoever is behind it.

Quint would prefer to head back to civilization (that would mean, at least at first, back to Blueblossom) to begin trying to find the watchmaker.

I vote to keep the research whole and hold it as a party. It may prove a useful bargaining chip in the future, when we know more.

I agree that we tell no one about the findings, but preach to all who would hear it about the successful destruction of the worm threat that was killing so many. That may actually shake loose our target for us when they come asking for the research.

I vote back to Blueblossom to have our bards sing tales of our success. We can tell anyone on the way that we encounter that we will do just that.

•Are you, or are you not, separating or destroying Arthugh's research?

Separated, if not destroyed.

•What is the group agreed on in terms of telling and not telling about Arthugh, his dead worms, his goblin accomplices, and his mysterious benefactor?

No one yet.

•Where are you headed, Blueblossom Haven? The nearest farmstead? (Which btw is Gaukridotr's.)

Blueblossom Haven

•What's the first avenue of investigation?

The mechanical device or the goblin. If mech dev then DISCREETLY..

Just want to throw it out there, that Lindaer votes for separating the research, and each carrying part of it. This spreads it out enough that even if one of us is robbed, the thief would get everything they need.

If we don't split the research, he would 'strongly' volunteer to hold onto it. Because he trusts in Amren to protect him from any lingering evil that might be within the pages. One can't be too cautious!

Heya guys, was leading my class on a theme park field trip all day. Pretty beat but getting some dinner together and will get some postage up before I hit the hay today.

We should keep the research together and we should state publicly that we have defeated the Queen and therefore think that we have destroyed the current threat.

I've no problem with pursuing the goblin next. No better idea anyway

I have sorted through the posts and on the question of destroying the research here is the vote as I understand it:

Boddy No - keep it whole
Luna Yes - or separate into 9
Psalm No - later maybe
Gom Neutral
Nikeisha No - later maybe
Jun No - later maybe
Quint No - later maybe
Hack No - keep it whole
Lindaer No - separate into 9

So that is an overwhelming 'no' on destroying it now. As far as separating it I may not have got all the responses correctly. Can we get some clarification from party members on the vote to separate it please?

Psalm thinks that it would be wise to keep separate as well.

I think Boddy and Shenkt were the only ones who objected to splitting the research up among the members of the party.

Splitting it up is I assume here means so if someone dies or is captured only 1 piece is lost. It would reason if we needed to study it we would be able to. Which is the point of not destroying it outright.

If someone dies, and they were holding it, then the survivors take it. The argument that we need to split it up because we will lose it when the holder dies makes no sense. The only way we will lose it is a TPK. Then, it will not matter, anyways. Just have the Paladin hold it for now.

... The argument that we need to split it up because we will lose it when the holder dies makes no sense. ...

I agree fully with that part. My concern is either it being 'pick-pocketed' off of someone, or worse yet someone being tempted to "give in to the dark side" and sell the research off or worse yet, using it for themselves. I realize that may make me sound pessimistic, but I've played enough D&D (or versions thereof) to see this kind of thing happen before. Even had a party TPK itself over greed.

I'm sure one of us with access to destructive magics can vaporise a section in the event of a TPK.

I find it genuinely funny that players are concerned what happens to a research journal if there's a TPK!!! If it were me, and there was a TPK, the last thing I'd be worried about is a research journal... Just sayin' :)

Exactly...just give it to the paladin, and let's move on. This is getting ridiculous. It is actually slowing the flow of the game.

I find it genuinely funny that players are concerned what happens to a research journal if there's a TPK!!! If it were me, and there was a TPK, the last thing I'd be worried about is a research journal... Just sayin' :)

Are you really upset that the players are woried about your world if they die?

I didn't say upset, I said funny. I guess I should feel flattered, for lack of a better word. I've never had players worried about what happens to a fictitious setting after their characters left it. So, no, far from upset, bemused...? Maybe? I love the engagement, I just don't have a frame of reference for it. ;) :)

Pleased is how I usually feel. And yeah, while we players might not be overly fussed, knowing another party can always appear to save the day, the characters would likely care more. It's there friends and family who have to keep living in the world if we screw up.

Pleased that at least one person in the party trusts the paladin enough to not turn into an evil wizard. :)

...probably because he can't multiclass...makes it an even safer proposition.

So, he's going to send men to check out the caves, and they're going to discover the man-made tunnels and the cabin above. At this point, I think the only way to keep him from finding out about that part would be to say that we made the whole thing up. Not telling him that part will only delay him finding out about it by about a day, and he's going to want to know why we didn't mention it. If we really think keeping the secret that long will help the investigation, it might be worth it, but if we tell him, we can make sure the men who go to check it out have instructions to be discreet. So basically, the choice is between letting the mayor and a couple of others in on that part now and (hopefully) keeping it from spreading further, or letting it become a roomer that will likely spread throughout the town a day later.

Can't say I disagree. It might be time to let him know the truth of it.

So far Lindaer’s party Role has become (a) poking things and (b) being polite.

If the mayor responds that he wants to hear more, anyone can feel free to explain the details.

I think he is an asshat, and I told him so.

Next time we need to talk to someone in authority, I'm thinking we do want to split the party, and we want to find some reason for certain party members to be elsewhere...

Agreed on all points. Tell him & he is an asshat.

Next time we need to talk to someone in authority, I'm thinking we do want to split the party, and we want to find some reason for certain party members to be elsewhere...

I am hurt...

Quint Rue wrote:

Next time we need to talk to someone in authority, I'm thinking we do want to split the party, and we want to find some reason for certain party members to be elsewhere...

I am hurt...

He never said which people should be separated. Maybe he meant Lindaer...

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