The World of Eafphqu: Team "good." (Inactive)

Game Master Hoary and Wizened

Now is the great dilema of the wild shaped druid. When to turn back.

This is my first druid have mercy on me.

We seem to have enough hitpoints now that a sleep spell has a low chance of effective more than one of us. Strategy now indicates sticking close together so that if someone gets put to sleep, there will be someone next to them to wake them up. Those of us who get put to sleep (think I'm still first, aside from maybe Vralk), then need to make sure to wake up someone else in the cluster on our turn. That way, nobody misses a turn as long as an entire cluster of characters doesn't get put to sleep (which can't happen if there is an elf in the cluster).

Seems reasonable Quint.

I also had a barrel of oil on my shopping list for if I was able to talk people into going back to town, so that we could burn them out when we found them. I doubt the flasks we have on us will do much good unless there is something particularly flammable here to augment it.

Mayhaps we just don't have the right tunes.

That made me chuckle Gomdebo. Ohh, Dragonforce...

Hello everyone! Really loving this game. Just wanted to say that. You are all great players. That's not specifically why I'm posting though. I know we've just leveled to level 2, but, in looking ahead to level 3, there are a lot of things that have heavy narrative influence. Just one example, the Warlock class' Pact Boon. That is something that has quite a bit of narrative involved with it, which may, in fact, require some narrative set up on my part. Another example is the Bard College for bards. In Eafphqu the colleges are very much those "loose organizations" that are mentioned in the PHB, instead of brick and mortar universities. This means that in order to join a "college" a bard would need to either seek out, or be sought by, a bard that is already in that college. Every class has something that they gain access to at level three that is extremely narrative in content.

SO! What I'd like from you all, as you have time and energy, is a solid idea of where you are leaning in terms of those level 3 choices. By knowing, now, where you are all looking to go with those level three choices, I can provide situations and contacts (read: NPCs) within the narrative now, that will make those choices easy and smooth later.

Let me know! Thanks!
MW

Uuh!!! I was planning to go with the 'Way of Shadow', but I just read the 'Way of Four Elements' and that sounds really cool as well! But then again we already seem to have several spellcasters in the group ... whereas the shadow one could provide a character who can get around in a very sneaky fashion. And either fits with 'Luna' (which is spanish for moon if you don't know). What do you all think?

Both use up *alot* of ki.

Shadow is defensive
Elements is more offensive

I’d go Elements. Is has a nice at-will cantrip, and more options on ki usage.

——

And I’ve already spoken of Lindaer’s plans at far too great length. I’ll just say that I’d prefer hexblade if at all possible with a “holy avenger sword of Amren” vibe if at all possible. Otherwise, I’ll refluff one of the basic patrons so that his patron is Amren

Lindaer!!! I am so sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I was just looking at things for you and realized you cannot multiclass, at all! PHB page 163 in the Multiclassing section under the Prerequisites header says:

"To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table."

Emphasis is mine there. The multiclassing prerequisite ability scores for Paladins are STR 13, and CHA 13. You put 11 in your STR ability score slot and therefore, until that gets boosted to a 13, are incapable of multiclassing at all. Sorry again to be the bearer of bad news... :(

I guess you'll have to start thinking about which Paladin Oath you want to take. :)

I just want to clarify...only core, right...no Xanathar's Guide or UA?

I just want to clarify...only core, right...no Xanathar's Guide or UA?

Ha!!! So glad you asked. I was just about to post something about that. I hate bringing bad news, and I was actually sitting here perusing my own hard copy of Xanathar's Guide to Everything (purchased on deep discount on Amazon because it's still the first printing and a few things have since been errata'ed).

So... drumroll please...

I'm officially opening up character options from Xanathar's Guide for use in our game. I'm barely into reading those options myself (just got to the monk section--some cool options there Luna!) but everything I've seen so far is well balanced. I haven't yet gotten to the racial feats section, but seeing as I don't think anybody gets a feat at level 3, I can hold off on allowing those or not for a while yet.

So, yes Shenkt, Path of the Storm Herald Barbarian is go! :)

Let me know if you have any questions about what is or isn't in XGE.

Plan was thief archetype then sentinel feat at 4th, if were doing feats. Need some objects for fast hands, like caltrops/ball bearings etc. Sentinel gives me multiple sneaks per round if I stay in melee.

edit: ...and obviously need to get equipped. XD Hopefully this whole worm business provides a little clink for my can, and she isn't slaughtered outright.

As I've mentioned, I'm planning to go Arcane trickster. Other than that, I think the only choices I have to make at 3rd level are spell selections. If you want to know what spells I will choose, I can work up a tentative list. I'll have to check out the XGE spell list, but it doesn't look like it will change my decisions much. Giving them a quick glance, Catapult is the only one (available at this level, anyway) that looks very interesting to me (mostly for the utility possibilities).

Mage Hand is a given, and Prestidigitation might as well be. For the third cantrip, I might go with Mending for thematic reasons unless I can come up with an option that will work with sneak attack in combat. I've read about Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade working well for rogues, but I don't think either is from an allowed source.

I can't see myself not taking Silent Image for one of my 1st-levels. I doubt I'll be able to cast Sleep or Color Spray at a high enough level to be very useful. Charm Person and Disguise Self look appealing, but I'm a little concerned that if this game continues the way it's been going, I may never have a chance to use either of them. I am planning to choose one first-level cantrip that is not enchantment/illusion, since I have such limited access to spells from other schools. Find familiar is sort of appealing, but given my limited spell options, I'll probably take Ritual Caster if I decide I want that enough. Fog cloud might be useful, Jump would be more thematic.

If anyone has suggestions, I'm open to them.

Ah...damn. I messed up by not taking acrobatics or athletics, and put the 16 in a stat that isn't that useful. Ah well. :(

Still, I guess it does simplify things.

Simple build, but should make for a very effective paladin. Will eventually max out his Dex, Con and Cha. So good saves, good defense, good offense.

For the oath...vengeance is the only one that seemed to fit. So might as well go for that. Will help do some damage as well.

I like 5e grease, Im not sure if this was the group that was talking about it before or not. No concentration required is rare for something like it is, meaning you can cast it a few times and make a large lockdown area. Or combine with cantrip Ray of Frost. Takes melee things out of the fight. Cause fear is like a single target version of it on a different save.

but I'm a little concerned that if this game continues the way it's been going, I may never have a chance to use either of them.

Quint, do you mean because you're out in the wilderness? Because my plans, not that I want to railroad you all, but insofar as my plans for this group goes, you'll be heading back to Rydwyrna, the biggest city on all of the continent of Iewiuf, for quite a bit of social roleplay if/when you defeat the queen. There's some bits and pieces of stuff to be discovered "down here" that will open up some whole new avenues of intrigue. :) Don't know if that allays your fears, or changes your mind at all.

Edit: I also happen to know that Quint's player has a particular affinity for the Grease spell. I wasn't aware that it isn't a concentration spell in 5e... That's off the chain!

Quint Rue wrote:

but I'm a little concerned that if this game continues the way it's been going, I may never have a chance to use either of them.

Quint, do you mean because you're out in the wilderness? Because my plans, not that I want to railroad you all, but insofar as my plans for this group goes, you'll be heading back to Rydwyrna, the biggest city on all of the continent of Iewiuf, for quite a bit of social roleplay if/when you defeat the queen. There's some bits and pieces of stuff to be discovered "down here" that will open up some whole new avenues of intrigue. :) Don't know if that allays your fears, or changes your mind at all.

Sounds good. I've been burned before by building a character designed for social interactions and sneaking around in urban settings, only to end up with the entire game to consist of fighting monsters in the wilderness.

Swashbuckler from Xanathar is awesome, Quint...true skirmisher.

I am going with Path of the Zealot, but I need a deity of combat or violence in the current setting. A Highlander embracing such a deity would give me an opportunity for some additional role playing that Hack, frankly, lacks until now. Is there such a deity? And, if not, I can come up with somethong for you to review as a god worshipped by Highlanders. Let me know what you think.

Also Quint Boddy has spells for copying in his book, not sure how metagamey things might get there but for example he has Fog Cloud already.

As I understand it, arcane tricksters don't get a spellbook or the ability to learn spells from other casters. Their casting works more like a sorcerer.

Ritual caster does give you a spellbook, but only for ritual spells.

Ah that's right, its like the Eldritch Knight and has the school restrictions, forgot. :) Fog cloud would be fun for skirmishing.

5e Grease seems underpowered to me, for some reason. It seems like standing on it should incur some penalty to attacks and/or AC. Now if standing on the grease gave attackers advantage against you, THAT would make it worth taking, especially for an arcane trickster.

I think of it more like a mez, something to prevent them swinging in melee while party handles another creature. Best case scenario (for them, they make 2 saves) they lose 20 ft of movement. Worst case scenario they lose 2 turns from standing and walking through difficult terrain. Most fights only last 3-4 rounds at most so yeah. And if it can hit multiple enemies in the right terrain, boy howdy.

It's also interesting to me that it only appears on the wizard spell list. Sorcs cant cast it. In fact, I believe it is the only uniquely wizard list spell besides find familiar, at least at level 1.

5e Grease seems underpowered to me, for some reason. It seems like standing on it should incur some penalty to attacks and/or AC. Now if standing on the grease gave attackers advantage against you, THAT would make it worth taking, especially for an arcane trickster.

I'm probably judging it on too little information but I hate grease. Standing up is too trivial to matter much any more so, even if they go down, it doesn't matter much

They also have to make a save to avoid falling when they enter it or end their turn in it, but if they fall, next turn they can stand up and walk out without any save or other checks being required, so it really only delays them by one turn at best.

Swashbuckler from Xanathar is awesome, Quint...true skirmisher.

I am going with Path of the Zealot, but I need a deity of combat or violence in the current setting. A Highlander embracing such a deity would give me an opportunity for some additional role playing that Hack, frankly, lacks until now. Is there such a deity? And, if not, I can come up with somethong for you to review as a god worshipped by Highlanders. Let me know what you think.

Shenkt, there is exactly such a deity already. His name is Saxwyn. He is the deity most worshiped by Highlanders. :) So, perfect for what you are going for there.

@Quint et al, your discussion of grease has me rethinking. It is definitely a little underpowered compared to its predecessors, but still a decent battlefield control spell, given the right circumstances. Going arcane trickster though, with such a limited spell selection, there are definitely better options. I love the idea of the mending spell to go with your tinkering, Quint. A good roleplay choice that could pay off with excellent narrative dividends as well.

A couple of other cantrip options... Message has obvious utility for a scout. True strike is obviously useful for a rogue, but I'm having trouble imagining a time when it would be worth my one action in a round to cast it (plus it would lose all utility when I get Versatile Trickster at level 13, assuming we get that far). Gust appeals to me given the inspiration for the character, but its usefulness seems far too situational for my limited spell list.

Given the GM encouragement (which is never something to be ignored), I'm leaning toward Mending, with Message as a close second. It would be nice to have something useful in combat, but I don't really see any worthwhile cantrips in the available sources given what my character is already good at. Maybe by the time I get another cantrip at level 10, other sources (namely Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide) will be approved, and I can choose between Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade for some in-combat enhancement.

It's definitely possible to remove the possibility of enemy using the attack action for 2 turns using grease with clever placement. Granted it depends on how everything is placed on map and what speed creature you are dealing with.

However, you are guaranteed to remove the possibility for one turn (regardless of what happens with the little save). You cast it in front of them, not on their square. Even if they have 30 speed they can at most dash and close into melee, but they are not able to swing! I'll just say one more thing in its defense, it might sound meh to remove the possibility of an enemy taking an attack action for one round in a 3 or 4 round fight, but its awesome to do so with a cluster of enemies. Again, that's what grease guarantees.

But yeah, definitely don't pick a spell you don't like. I'm just rambling.

Grease also isn't effective if they can just sidestep it, which is a little easier in 5e than in pathfinder, given how diagonals are handled. If a bunch of guys are charging you down a narrow hallway, it's pretty good, but I think its utility is more situational than in Pathfinder.

Agreed, grease cast in wide open is maybe not best plan. :D There's only 4 non damage AoEs at 1st level: Silent Image, Fog Cloud, Grease, Sleep. All have their moments/tradeoffs, and grease is no lesser than the others imho.

True Strike (and Blade Ward) actually synergize well with Eldritch Knight, who can bonus action attack after casting a cantrip. I like the shocking grasp delivered by familiar trick. But yeah, I'd probably go prestidigi and mending. There is always broken crap in dungeons.

For my first-levels, two of the three have to be Illusion or Enchantment. Enchantment has always been limited in when you can use it effectively, but (at least in pathfinder) made up for it by being able to end an encounter before it starts when they work. With things like hitpoint limits, it seems like it's a lot harder to make those useful in 5e, so I'm leaning away from those.

Jun was going to go with College of Valor, but since we've opened up Xanathar's I'll go with the College of Swords.

Just a heads up, but after 4th level I'm planning on switching Jun to a different class, most likely Fighter, especially now that we have access to XGE (there is a Samurai archetype for Fighter in Xanathar's).

Somebody deleted the grid. Probably too late now, but remember that undo is your friend.

Nikeisha will be taking the Pact of the Tomb. So...finding a big greenbound leather book will probably be all that happens, or Nikeisha can start making one.

Question, might Gom know about damage interrupting spellcaster's concentration and think to attack the queen to free her allies from confusion?

GM, also I was thinking, if we get through this could I drag a corpse or 2 to town and get some studded leather crafted out of the worm hide? That might be kinda cool, not asking for any mechanical thing just flavor. I'm going to buy some next chance I get anyways.

Gomster, I don't have a problem with that at all. But remember the rainbow color quality of the worm's hide completely disappears after they die. Though, you might be able to convince some magic weapon crafter to infuse the leather with some permanent magic to try and restore the color swirling quality... ???

@Jun, I wondered if you'd be interested in the Samurai archetype. Thought of you as soon as I saw it. Bard College of Swords is very cool too.

Edit: Thanks to everyone that has given me solid ideas for character directions. It's helped me formulate some concrete ideas about where to plant some hooks, and what kinds of NPCs to bring in. :) You guys rock!

@Quint, I just reread the Arcane Trickster rules, and it appears as though the narrative idea behind that archetype is actually some kind of advanced wizardry. It actually says: "Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your wizard spells, since you learn your spells through dedicated study and memorization." At no point does it say you need to tote around a spellbook, but it does appear as though any magical ability Quint would begin to wield at level 3 would have come through study and practice, rather than some kind of sorcerous intervention. Just thought you should be aware, as it might help you roleplay some things moving forward in a way that shows Quint's interest in magic. :)

However, you are guaranteed to remove the possibility for one turn

Then I must be misunderstanding something.

I swapped out grease after the battle on the ship. I swapped it out when I thought it was TOTALLY useless for that fight. If I put grease on the squares they were on the bad guys (even if they failed their save) just stand up, move and attack.

If I put it in front of them they just walked around it and attacked.

Did I miss something?

Takes some square counting. You're right if they can walk around it its useless. On the big ship bow it might not've been the best, in these tunnels maybe better.

Standing up takes half movement (15 ft for 30 spd creature), then to move into difficult terrain takes 10 ft. So they've spent 25 ft total in that case. If their target is more than 5ft away from the grease, they cannot move into melee and attack. At most they can dash to move into melee (but have no action left to attack).

Even if they make the save and are force to walk twice through it starting from outside, it costs them 20 ft of their movement. If their target is more than 10 ft away from the grease, they cannot move into melee and attack.

The numbers change depending on creature's speed. Then of course in super tight situations (like current map) you can box them in with the party's front liners, causing them to save vs prone every round (or route triggering AoO, or force them to use action to disengage).

Why does he roll the save at the end of his turn? Seems like it would make more sense to roll it before the turn, to see if he gets to act normally or not. I guess it's still fair, since he did roll one after the previous turn, it just seems convoluted. Maybe the intent is to allow him an AoO after he shakes it off?

The behavior roll is at the beginning of each turn. If you roll a 9 or 10 on d10, you act normal...but that doesn't mean spell has ended. At the end of that turn, that's when you get a new save to see if you roll the d10 behavior again next round.

Ok, I've been investigating spell options and checking the details of the relevant rules. The spells I'm going to take at 3rd level are:

Cantrips:
Mage Hand: No choice here, but I'd choose it anyway.
Prestidigitation: Can't imagine being an arcane caster without this, and the D&D version is even better than the pathfinder version because it also encompasses the effects of Pathfinder's Spark spell.
Mending: Makes sense for the direction I want to take the character. It should really be castable as a ritual, but I guess there are no ritual cantrips. If I do take the ritual caster feat later, I'll probably try to convince the GM to allow me to put this in my ritual book so I can choose another cantrip in its place.

1st level:
Silent Image: One of my favorites in any edition, and I love that this version allows the illusion to move from its original location rather than being confined to an area you specify when casting.
Disguise Self: In a populated setting, it's worthwhile for a scout to branch out into infiltration.
Find Familiar: This was a tough decision, but an owl familiar is just too useful for an arcane trickster to pass up (and makes up for not having any other magic that's useful in combat). This means I don't have to trade my 4th level ability bump for Ritual Caster to get it, but I can still take the feat later, and the spell choice won't be a wasted choice, since I can replace one spell each level.

Quint, there's no reason for a cantrip to be a ritual. You can cast a cantrip whenever you want, as often as you want. Or are you saying you wish it was a ritual spell so you could still have it available and another cantrip?

Also, I was a bit surprised with the choice of Find Familiar, until I read the description and saw just how awesome that spell is. Being able to see and hear through the familiar, for a rogue scout, is most excellently powerful.

This brings up one very interesting thing about the world of Eafphqu, that hasn't really come up until now. Not that this conversation even makes it completely relevant, but we are talking about familiars. All "domestic" or "house" cats on Iewiuf (that's the main continent) are someone's familiar. You see a cat, you know it belongs to someone that has the capability of casting spells. :)

Happy Easter everybody!

Edit:OH! Almost forgot to mention that I love the Arcane Trickster's Mage Hand Legerdemain ability! Illiam would have very much loved for that to be a Pathfinder thing, I think. :)

Quint, there's no reason for a cantrip to be a ritual. You can cast a cantrip whenever you want, as often as you want. Or are you saying you wish it was a ritual spell so you could still have it available and another cantrip?

Also, I was a bit surprised with the choice of Find Familiar, until I read the description and saw just how awesome that spell is. Being able to see and hear through the familiar, for a rogue scout, is most excellently powerful.

Yes. The point of making Mending a ritual spell is that it would make it available through the Ritual Caster feat. If I take the feat, that would mean that (like Find Familiar) I would be able to retain access to the spell while also being able to choose another spell in its place.

Yes, Find Familiar is surprisingly good. Owl familiars, in particular, are useful for Arcane Tricksters because they have the Flyby ability, which allows them to fly up to an enemy, take their action, and fly back out without provoking an AoO. The 1 point of damage their attack does isn't very useful, but they can instead take the Help action to give the rogue advantage on their first attack against that target on their next turn. Basically, the familiar is messing with the target to distract it to give its master an opening to attack.

Edit:OH! Almost forgot to mention that I love the Arcane Trickster's Mage Hand Legerdemain ability! Illiam would have very much loved for that to be a Pathfinder thing, I think. :)

Yeah, the Pathfinder Arcane Trickster has a similar ability. I wasn't planning to multiclass that character, but I was planning to ask if I could take that ability as a feat at some point down the road.

Speaking of Illiam, it looks like a version of his teleportation trick is possible for a familiar. The Find Familiar description says that you can, as an action, dismiss your familiar to a pocket dimension. Then, as another action, you can summon the familiar again to any unoccupied space within 30ft. There is no reason this would need to be a space that it could have reached from its previous location, and it doesn't even say that you need a line of sight. This means that, over the course of two turns, you could essentially teleport the familiar to the other side of a wall or door. You could then use its senses to look around, and even instruct it telepathically to unlock the door from the other side (though Vralk might be better at this last part than Quint's familiar, since corvids in particular have been known to use tools). I'm thinking of flavoring this much more as the familiar having a mind of its own and acting of its own accord.

I've been thinking about how to introduce and play the owl familiar character. Based on Quint's backstory, I think it would be cool for the familiar to have a name from one of the stories about magic-wielding heroes (like the stories of Taborlin from the Kingkiller Chronicles) that he seeks to emulate. I'm thinking that in some of these stories, there was an owl (possibly the familiar of one of the heroes, or maybe a spirit or demigod, or intelligent creature that played some other part in the story) whose name anyone who had heard this common legend would recognize. The familiar would have a very similar name (I'm thinking it would be fun for the familiar to be female, and have the feminized version of the male owl character's name), and though she would be a very different type of owl (maybe the character was a snowy owl, or a great horned owl, while the familiar would be a melanistic barn owl), anyone who's heard the story would recognize the similarity to that character.

My question is, is there anything in the existing history or lore of Eafphqu that I should be looking to tie this story into, or should I just be making something up?

Also when we get out of this cave and are on our way back to civilization, Quint will have to talk to Boddy and ask some questions about how he found his familiar, as a way to explain how he learns that spell. I think the others all work as extensions of some of his existing abilities, though it wouldn't hurt to get some in-character help from one or more of the party's casters teach him Prestidigitation and to explain the sudden increase in the strength of his existing illusion ability. He'll also need to pick up a component pouch to before he can make use of some of those spells.

@Quint, great ideas all the way around. I don't have any lore like that in my head yet, so if you want to create that, that would be great. Please just share whatever lore you come up with me in some form that's readily accessible. Thanks! Also, remember, we're still quite a ways off from level three. I was just trying to gather information so that the transition to those very narrative-affecting choices have some solid ground to stand on, rather than just magically appearing. I had actually envisioned Quint talking to Boddynuck about magic on the return trip as well. Which will be all the more realistically imagined after... some things. ;)

I was thinking very much of treating the return trip along with melding back into life in Rydwyrna (assuming success here with the queen and her guard, and assuming easy transition with some social interactions in Blueblossom Haven afterward, and assuming suitable arrangements can be made) as a week of downtime. Possibly using a melding of the downtime rules from the PHB, DMG, and XGE.. Still thinking about that possibility, so any discussion points you all have on that topic are welcome.

Speaking of XGE, I read through the expanded tool proficiency rules provided there, and I love them! Such a great way to make tool proficiencies much more meaningful. For those that don't know, the boiled down rule is that if a character has proficiency with a set of tools and a skill that complement each other, they get advantage on all checks where the two would coincide. For example, a character that has proficiency with thieves' tools and with Investigation or Perception would have advantage when using those skills to look for traps. The assumption being that because they have proficiency with the tools of the trade, they are more equipped to look for the subtle clues that would give away a trap. They have at least one skill associated with each set of tools, as well as expanded rules for what is in the toolset, and one "special use," for each toolset. Using thieves' tools as the example again, a character that is proficient with thieves' tools can spend their time during a short rest actually crafting a trap! There are more specific rules about the materials used, and what kind of trap it might be, but mostly it comes down to DM fiat/DM+Player agreement.

Anyway, I really like those rules, and though I haven't read every toolset's entry, I'm sure none of them are game-breaking. So, for those with tool proficiencies, if you are capable of taking a look at those rules, please do, as we'll be moving forward with their use, if the group agrees to.

Now to figure out what's happening in the gameplay thread... :)

Yeah, I know we're not there yet, just planning some things ahead. I was thinking of doing some writing ahead of time for the casting of the ritual. For the setting, I'm imagining him sneaking off into the woods at night, probably borrowing (read: stealing, with the intention to return it when he's done) the brazier that the ritual requires from Boddy's things (I'm assuming that since he's cast the spell before, he has a small one already), and setting up in front of the stump of a burned-out tree (perhaps one that had been struck by lightning). Hopefully we'll be in a setting that won't make this too difficult to work in around the time he gets access to the spell.

There are also some additional pieces of Quint's backstory that I need to fill in for the narrative I have in mind, and I want to write some stuff about how he acquired his bow and got so good with it while I'm at it.