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So, how does your Ranger do significant damage, when Favoured Enemy doesn't apply? I'm mostly interested in archery rangers, although TWF Rangers are interesting too (I guess the TWF tree and maybe Power Attack). Otherwise, how do they keep up with Rogue, Fighter, smiting Paladin, etc?
Point blank shot+Deadly aim+rapid shot. at 4th level thats 2 attacks +5 damage each.
having a descent str and a comp bow helps alot too.
What others have said. It's all about multiple attacks, and deadly aim. Don't dump your strength, try to start with at least 14 str and 16 dex. Once you hit 6th level you get improved precise shot 5 levels before anyone else can and that's HUGE. It means you can ignore cover from allies (soft cover) and most other kinds short of a wall being between you and your target.
Remember to keep a longsword handy if things get too hairy and close up. A masterwork composite +2 strength bow is something you should be able to afford by level 2.
It's also worth noting there are several new weapon styles in the APG now (two-handed, mounted, natural weapons, etc.).
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Quick answer: I don't.
Longer answer: I play a Ranger/Rogue/Delver in Pathfinder Society, and I use two weapon fighting. Now, as far as damage goes, his output's, frankly, abysmal. However, I don't play my character as a damage dealer, I play him as a fighter who sets up opportunities, such as flanks, or forcing enemies to use up their AOOs, and generally just being a right pain in the rear for my foes. Though, the small sneak attack I get when flanking is nice...
Treantmonk's Guide to Rangers in Pathfinder
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2/tre antmonk-s-guide-to-rangers
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Treantmonk's Guide to Rangers in Pathfinder
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2/tre antmonk-s-guide-to-rangers
Ooh, switch-hitter looks pretty good.
The advice on TWF Ranger pretty much agrees with my understanding of it all. The changes to archery, though, over 3.5 end up being more significant than I'd realised.
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If you are up for an interesting (Not super optimized) build you can build a really cool shield slamming Ranger with TWF. You get the benefit of the higher AC, and you it allows you to build a more Str based build that other similar builds as you won't need as much Con for health.
Archer. I have extremely high Dexterity, and i trade the attack bonus I get from Dex for damage using Deadly Aim. Of course the other feats (ManyShot, Rapid Shot).
I could trade Dex for Str for the same average damage output, but Dex gives me other benefits, but it is just a matter of tastes.
Do people use the spell Gravity Bow, at all (primarily at low levels)? For typical-sized arrows it seems to me that at low level (when the basic arrow damage is basically all the damage) it pays if combat lasts three rounds or more.
Gravity Bow is vital, IMO. Since it's generally easier to get crits on melee weapons, anything that boosts your damage with a bow is solid. The extra damage is tied into the physical arrow, so it helps with overcoming DR and it gets multiplied on a crit.
Our group is going to run into a boss fight here soon, and I plan on using Gravity Bow and Aspect of the Falcon. +1 to hit, 19-20 crit range, and 2d6 damage per arrow? Yes please.
At first level masterwork arrows give a +1 to damage
and only cost 7 GP for 20 instead of 1 GP, so you can afford them....
Masterwork arrows only give a +1 to hit, and they cost 7 gp each, not for 20.
Do people tend to get magic bows or magic arrows (or, rather, what are the favoured magic enhancements to get on the bows and what on the arrows)?
In general, it's better to enchant the bow, because it lasts. Straight +'s are good (rapid/deadly/cover tend to drop to-hit quickly), and things like Holy. After you have a +3 or +4 bow, +1 arrows with some sort of +1 effect on them can be quite handy. Merciful, Bane, or flame/frost/shock are nice.
Do people tend to get magic bows or magic arrows (or, rather, what are the favoured magic enhancements to get on the bows and what on the arrows)?
Enchant the bow, it lasts longer. At 6-10th level you're using 3 arrows per round, if you buy magic arrows (50 arrows is one "weapon), that's only 16 rounds of combat.
Since you get an extra attack, enchants that add damage dice work great. I had a shocking bow and it worked well. Since bows don't have the best crit range, I would get multiple different bonuses instead of going for the burst abilities.
Favored enemy is a critical component of a ranger's abilities IMO, it shouldn't apply to every fight, but it should at least have a decent chance of coming up once a session. Talk to your GM, if he isn't going to throw you a bone by suggesting a couple of options for the campaign, then look at variants or options to replace Favored Enemy. We're playing Rise of the Runelords and so far my Giants (my character was introduced during Hook Mountain as a surviving ranger), Monstrous Humanoids and Dragons have been excellent choices.
Conveniently, masterwork Durable arrows also cost 7gp each. Elves of Golarion.
Masterwork arrows only give a +1 to hit, and they cost 7 gp each, not for 20.
Quite true. Though masterwork arrows are only useful until you can afford a masterwork bow. And durable arrows become a negligent savings quite quickly (as they don't save the magic). Very nice to have a few though, in case you're in a situation where you're going to run out of arrows!
The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition).
The unit of ammunition being 20 arrows not 1!
I'm afraid not. The reason it's 6gp is pricing based on 50 units of ammunition. +300/50 = +6, per arrow. Same with the magic rules (+1 arrows = +2300/50 = +46 per arrow).
Edit: Same for silver arrows by the way (2gp each, not +2gp per 20).
Do people tend to get magic bows or magic arrows (or, rather, what are the favoured magic enhancements to get on the bows and what on the arrows)?Enchant the bow, it lasts longer. At 6-10th level you're using 3 arrows per round, if you buy magic arrows (50 arrows is one "weapon), that's only 16 rounds of combat.
Don't forget to get "special material" arrows as you level up. Invest in a magic quiver too so that it spits out the ones you need when you need them.
Examples include silver arrows, cold iron arrows, and eventually adamantium arrows for constructs.
You can also get arrows that do special types of damage like blunt for those pesky DR/Bludgeon as well.
I'd prefer if "aim and attack" was a better option. Yes, Vital Strike+ can be used, but as damage bonuses are such a huge part of the damage, you lose out in the end.
I know what you mean a bit, but it's still a pretty viable option:
If you carry around some Large arrows, and quaff a potion of enlarge person (dropping the large quiver before or after), you can Improved Vital Strike for 6d6 (+ bonuses) a shot.
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Do masterwork arrows and bows not stack? I would think that quality workmanship would apply from each item, unlike magic, which is imparted to the arrow from a bow.Edit: Looked that up...it doesn't. Sigh. Must be a game balance thing, because i would think that a quality arrow would still be sharper or whatever when fired from a quality bow.
The problem of missile and launcher bonuses is a thorny one. I agree with that realism logic doesn't really support "take the best bonus".
Do masterwork arrows and bows not stack? I would think that quality workmanship would apply from each item, unlike magic, which is imparted to the arrow from a bow.Edit: Looked that up...it doesn't. Sigh. Must be a game balance thing, because i would think that a quality arrow would still be sharper or whatever when fired from a quality bow.
They stacked in 3rd Edition, it changed in 3.5, and I'm happy they did.
You loose realism, but it simplifies archery a lot for both the player, the DM and the game developers. You don't have to worry about what's better, if wasting 1000's of coins in magic arrows or using the money for something else (expensive consumibles are always a problem)
A ranger in my game acquired a +2 composite Flaming Bow and he destroyed things with it... until he hit the Frost Giant for 96 points of damage in a round and said giant promptly charged him and sundered it into oblivion before he could get off a volley like that again...
Rangers are amazingly powerful as they level, but have a backup weapon, because if something strong survives your volley, they will have nothing else to do but try to negate your attacks somehow.
I also (as a GM) hate the feat that allows shots while in melee to not provoke attacks of opportunity, and will probably outlaw it in the next campaign.
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I also (as a GM) hate the feat that allows shots while in melee to not provoke attacks of opportunity, and will probably outlaw it in the next campaign.
As soon as D&D accurately represents the debilitating effects of taking a few arrows in the chest on the way to reaching melee combat with the archer, I'll actually consider the complaint "shooting a bow while threatened in melee is unrealistic" to be valid.
So, how does your Ranger do significant damage, when Favoured Enemy doesn't apply? I'm mostly interested in archery rangers, although TWF Rangers are interesting too (I guess the TWF tree and maybe Power Attack). Otherwise, how do they keep up with Rogue, Fighter, smiting Paladin, etc?
Number ONE! I selected human as my first FA and that has paid huge dividends as a result.
For Feats, I selected Manyshot and Deadly Aim along with both Vital Strike and Imp. Vital Strike. I use a +4 STR bow. When I need to I cast Instant Enemy - now you're shooting at your highest FA value. If I have more time then Gravity Bow comes out.
Basically through good spell use and solid Feat selections I have managed to remain quite relevant in the damage department. Until the Fighter/Rogue got hold of Armag's sword, I was THE main damage dealer in the party.
If you can get scent (probably a ranger spell for it; otherwise Half-Orc with Keen Scent feat)you can get some Pheromone Arrows. Shoot boss enemies with just 1, and get a +2 attack/damage for the next hour within range of your scent. Only 15 gp per arrow.
Instant Enemy. Fighters, read it and weep.
As a tangent to the OPs question: Does there exist a rule of thump as to up to what STR-rating on the bow you go? When do you start enchanting it/getting it enchanted?
I'm sitting at STR 22 and DEX 18 @ lvl 6 (switch hitter) and looking at the amount of time needed to build a masterwork bow with a +6 STR rating makes me weep (low magic world, need to make my own weapons and get them enchanted by our wizard)?
Ruyan.
Instant Enemy. Fighters, read it and weep.
Like I said, that's one of the first things I cast if it's not one of my FAs. I'm actually considering taking the Silent Spell metamagic feat when I get 4th level spells, just so I can remain hidden while casting it.
I just gotta ask.... how is "instant enemy" not the cheesiest spell ever? I mean it's awesome enough if it were a standard action, but it's even a swift action!
Pocketful of pearls of power and everything I fight is an "instant enemy"
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As a tangent to the OPs question: Does there exist a rule of thump as to up to what STR-rating on the bow you go? When do you start enchanting it/getting it enchanted?
I'm sitting at STR 22 and DEX 18 @ lvl 6 (switch hitter) and looking at the amount of time needed to build a masterwork bow with a +6 STR rating makes me weep (low magic world, need to make my own weapons and get them enchanted by our wizard)?Ruyan.
Buy a scroll of this Fabricate and get a temp boost to your UMD (needs to hit a DC 29) so you can cast from the scroll. You will have your +6 Darkwood bow in about 6 seconds.
Instant Enemy. Fighters, read it and weep.
Weapon Training + Gloves of Dueling (+Greater Focus/Specialization). Rangers, read it and weep. :p
I just gotta ask.... how is "instant enemy" not the cheesiest spell ever? I mean it's awesome enough if it were a standard action, but it's even a swift action!
Pocketful of pearls of power and everything I fight is an "instant enemy"
Each 3rd level pearl costs 9000 gp.
Pocketful of pearls of power and everything I fight is an "instant enemy"
Gonna have to explore that option, but it sounds expensive...
Each 3rd level pearl costs 9000 gp.I just gotta ask..
.. how is "instant enemy" not the cheesiest spell ever? I mean it's awesome enough if it were a standard action, but it's even a swift action!
Pocketful of pearls of power and everything I fight is an "instant enemy"
So, roughly 1/3 of my wealth allows me to use this spell at least four times per day.
Still crazy powerful.
But than again... someone will say "not nearly as powerful as you think because..."
But to me.... crazy powerful.
I convertd my 14th level ranger after the core books came out. At the time I thought "this dude is AWESOME against his favored enemies! Too bad he's just 'meh' against other targets..."
Now, problem solved! He's now awesome against anything! Woohoo!
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I've always been curious if most games had higher wealth than mine. I've almost never written up a wizard, or played one, and felt I had enough extra gold even for a few spell scrolls, let alone pearls. Reading the boards, everyone casts spells from scrolls and pearls daily, has one or more metamagic rods, and this is in conversations about 2nd and 3rd level spells.Each 3rd level pearl costs 9000 gp.I just gotta ask.... how is "instant enemy" not the cheesiest spell ever? I mean it's awesome enough if it were a standard action, but it's even a swift action!
Pocketful of pearls of power and everything I fight is an "instant enemy"
Best to take many of the optimization posts here with a grain of salt.
Instant Enemy. Fighters, read it and weep.Weapon Training + Gloves of Dueling (+Greater Focus/Specialization). Rangers, read it and weep. :pRanger/Horizon Walker + Instant Enemy = +20 to hit & +20 damage & +20 initiative.
Fighters, read it and weep. <Channelling Nelson> HA HA
"When dealing with creatures native to that terrain, the horizon walker treats his favored terrain bonus for that terrain as a favored enemy bonus (as the ranger class feature) against those creatures.This bonus overlaps (does not stack with) bonuses gained when fighting a favored enemy."
I don't think Instant Enemy combines with that by RAW...