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Harles wrote:


Here it is: a full color ebook reader. This could be a handy way for us to reference books at the game table. Please consider this technology for future releases.


I am using my new Archos 101 (https://store.archos.com/archos-internet-tablet-p-5005.html) for this. It looks absolutely great and pinch-to-zoom makes reading stuff a breeze. Things load with reasonable swiftness. All for, ahem, $200 less than the cheapest Ipad. With a larger (though not as nice) screen, full usb ports, hdmi out etc.

Callarek wrote:

So, Point-blank master gives an archer the ability to attack while threatened without provoking, so should the flanking rules allow an archer with this feat to grant flanking?

Or should I just spend 5 gp to buy a spiked gauntlet....

Were I the GM, I would only allow it when, say, a Zen Archer reaches 9th level and can threaten opportunity attacks with the bow. That said, since the ZA can still kick with a bow in his hands, I guess they already provide a flank.

Scabby the Knoll wrote:
I'm going to be playing in Legacy of Fire and was thinking about playing a druid with a focus on summoning creatures, buffing spells, and terrain control. The APG comes out and the Dm for the adventure path recommends I take a look at the summoner. At first glance it sounds cool enough but, when I started to dig a little closer I find something missing. As I see it the Eidolon is all there is. A summoner basically sicks it on whoever and then sits back and does nothing. yes at 7th you can just hold and an action and dispel but it seems like the actual character is not doing much. Help me understand.

Ranged weapons/wands?

For flavor, make your eidolon some kind of Djinni themed creature.

For the love of god, play a middle-eastern type. I am in a LoF campaign and I feel the other players missed out by making totally generic fantasy types.

Phazzle wrote:

Hey everybody!

One of my PCs created an AWESOME character. He is a Druid 4/ Barbarian 4 and I just love the character concept. Basically he is a crazy loner that roams the countryside as a wolf. He roleplays it well and he is a beast in combat.

I want to reward this PC's creativity by giving him magic items that are super cool without being overpowered and that do not break the game. The first one that came to mind was a collar that acts as Metamagic: Silent, Lesser rod http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/magic-items/rods---final/metamagi c-rods/metamagic-silent so that he can use it while in animal form.

I am looking for other ideas that will help enhance this character.


Three words:

Magic dog sweater.

Wait...people stand on their heads all of the time. People used to wear gravity boots. You should never fall unconscious from being upside down for less than several minutes. What I might do is require fortitude checks to avoid a cumulative hit penalty. Like, every round that you are upside down you must make a fort save or be at -1 to hit. This remains cumulative as you fail further tests. The penalties go away at +1 per round when you right yourself.

Character gets mad and stops going to church. I would only pick up another deity if he sees one that fits him much better. Otherwise he may pay homage on special days, before a voyage at sea, when getting married and things like that.

Another tack would be to decide that the clergy of Abadar are not perfect and try to change the system. You could be like a modern Catholic who believes that the church should condone birth control. You are still an Abadarite, but you have a hot button issue with the way the clerics handle healing.

gobberbodger wrote:

A disagreement came up at a game last night. One player wished to use his flight hex to cast feather fall on everyone. I was under the impression that the flight hex only affected the witch, and that she could not make others lighter with it. The idea being that she is just lighter all the time, like having a ring of feather fall but instead its a supernatural ability.

So who's right? Can a witch use her flight hex to cast feather fall on anyone or just on herself?

It specifically states that it happens because the witch is lighter than other people. This is a fun flavor ability based on the old practice of weighing a woman or seeing if she floats to determine whether she is a witch. I'm not sure how that is supposed to translate into casting on fellow players. The wording could be more clear, but the intent is clear. If you try it among strangers they might allow it, but you are going to get some eye rolls.

Varthanna wrote:
I liked that 3.5 encouraged more diversity in character races. In playing PFRPG with multiple groups, they are very human heavy, or even exclusively human. Back in the day the same sets of people played as thrikreens, warforged, grey orcs, aasimar, and others. And frankly, I miss it. It is my personal preference that PFRPG blundered on non-standard characters.

For me, that totally depends on the campaign. IMHO few players even play an Elf according to her race, let alone a Thrikreen or Whisper Gnome. Dwarves seem to go okay. On the other hand, if you either have great roleplayers or a mostly strategic/combat campaign I'm with you.

I miss the variety of prestige classes, but I support the idea that they should not be mechanically superior to base classes, just different.

Well, the Hobgoblin could be a fun addition to an adventure. No Hobgoblin is going to be a willing servant forever. You player can cow him for awhile, but he'd basically rabbit at the first or second opportunity. You needn't be a jerk and have him stab the character in his sleep. Talking about it too much is probably a mistake.

"I should be able to cow the hobgoblin into being my slave."

"Okay. What do you say?"

Player makes it good.

"Okay. He seems terrified. He starts burying the bodies like you said and then prepares to carry your gear like you said."

That leaves you much more leeway than "Okay, he's intimidated. Now he's your slave."

As for the dungeon, throw up a legal or social barrier to his ownership. If a farmer's field has killer bees on it and he isn't using it because it is so dangerous, I don't get to own the field because I go kill the bees. The king, council, ancient landholders or whatever should show up and say that it belongs to them (assuming it's not some crappy worm hole or something). If he objects you could plague him with lawyers. He thinks hobgoblins are bad! I recommend playing it all out in a separate session. If he gets through that, send a tax collector. If he gets through that, let him have the place.

Shar Tahl wrote:
What core class variant best represents and Indiana Jones type character?

Archivist bard. He can do it all, look good doing it and he uses a whip. Keep in mind, if you are trying to recreate him, that he is max level and rolled really high stats.

The smitter wrote:
I would raise it like a son treat it very well for like 2 years and then kill it to show how evil I am.

Wait, is the puppy sentient? If it's not than it hardly matters. Also, was it sleeping? If the puppy has a chance to defend itself the antipally may be wasting his time.

hello, my name is ninja wrote:

I am thinking about making a dwarf monk of the empty hand in PFS, and I'm trying to think up some improvised weapons for him. He's an escaped slave whose mind became focused wile in slavery and learned to swing whatever he had at the moment in his multiple escape attempts before he make it out. My first idea was 2 pairs of manacles strapped to 10ft of chain, and there's really no weapon that I can find that's like that. it weighs the same as a longsword (6lb) but I could see how that could be hard to use so I'm not sure if its one handed or 2-handed. I was thinking it could be;

A. 1d8 or 2d4 damage, 10' reach, 2 handed, x2, 6lb, trip, special, see text
B. 1d6 damage, 10' reach, 1 handed, x2, 6lb, trip, special, see text

special: you can move your hand(s) up or down the chain(a move action) to
attack adjacent enemies or attack enemies at 10' away.

I was thinking the different damage dice for both balance and you couldn't get it swinging as fast in one hand, and the trip was common sense. It's seems a lot like a handicapped 3.5 spiked chain(move action to attack adjacent and no disarm). I have some other ideas for improv weapons but this one seemed like it could use some discussion.

comments and other ideas for improvised weapons are welcome

Well, you can do whatever your gm will let you get away with. Nothing anywhere says that the improvised weapons get any special qualities at all, and the rules do include stats for improvised weapons. I submit that by designing and building a weapon with special qualities, even if it is made out of bits and pieces, it is a custom exotic weapon. Improvised weapons are just that, improvised -- not designed. If your gm lets you flurry with this thing you are designing, it'll "break" the class a little. On the other hand, the class is weak so that might not be so bad.


That is truly a paladin of convenience. Someone who is required to "punish those who harm or threaten innocents" is allowed to slaughter children. Yeah, you can do that in your campaign, but you can make dogs into cats and cats into dogs or any old thing that your players are good with.

AvalonXQ wrote:
Three levels of the APG Archer gets you ranged Feint.

This. Lots of sneak attack from a distance. Ideally levitate or climb something and shout "Death from above."

Dabbler wrote:
Foghammer wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

My question is: How should I deal with her without ruining the fun at the table, which will invariably happen if I ask her not to attend (wherein she will complain to...

Talk to the other players first. Get their feedback and secure their backing for any course of action. All in all, sound like she doesn't really want to be there if her character contributes nothing tangible and she doesn't like RP - not a problem, until it detracts from everyone else's fun, then ... it comes down to she has to change or leave.

Just balance the encounters based on the rest of the party and give them slightly more xp.

Richard Leonhart wrote:

Hi, first time I start a thread:

So I've got this character concept in mind for quite some time, and now Paizo has given a class that can play it (thanks for Inquisitor and Alchemist Paizo):

So I want to play an Inquisitor, probably Half-Orc, who seeks to destroy all evil. But he does this, without regard for the innocents, if he can kill the great evil wizard, but killing a few unimportant innocents, he will do so.
In addition to this, he is brutal (orc descent), but to make a point. So the evil clergy will get beaten to death on the street.

So in short, someone who attacks all evil, wherever it is, while using methods that are in fact evil, what alignement has he got?

LG is probably out of the question with killing innocents.
LE however, even if realistic, would make him want to kill himself.
So is LN the way to go?

EDIT: advice on deity and domain is also appreciated

By the way, the character might know that he is evil and be able to live with it. Basically, he is sacrificing his own soul to save others. "These actions damn me, and I know it. But the good people of the world will sleep peacefully and never know what it cost me."

You know how in fiction heroes often stop themselves because they don't want to be like their enemy? This guy went the other way.

Caineach wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:
Oliver McShade wrote:


While it is easy to call a kobold a monster, the same is true for Dwarfs as monster, elves as monsters, or even Humans as monsters.

While I agree with you, we could call a kobold a monster. This is not how they are defined by RAW, but a homebrew world like Caineach's (or at least a homebrew interpretation of a published world) might define the kobold as otherwise.

They may be otherworldy Evil (with a capital "E") on the same level as a demon, or inhumanly aggressive toward every living creatures from birth on the same scale of the xenomorphs of the Alien(s) franchise.

Again, that's not how RAW describes them and that's now how I like to see them personally speaking, but since its a fantasy world, Caineach has every right to define them like that.

Does that change it from being an evil act? I don't know, but it certainly changes the rules of engagement...

I never said that Kobolds were evil. I said that they were viewed as evil by others. Big difference. I love my grey areas. My characters go in with the assumption that Kobolds are evil, and Paladins are the embodiment of might makes right. Paladins therefore smite and kill kobolds on site, because that is what is right to do. Other good characters have more leadway. Like I said, my Paladin is Old Testament.

Your Paladin is an Inquisitor with pally abilities then.

By the way, might makes right is a deliberately cynical saying (if often true). The entire point of the paladin's code is to place his might at the service of right, not the other way around.

Eric Mason 37 wrote:

How about this:

Rounding out feats:

At even levels, characters get a rounding out feat. These feats can't be associated with a character's primary combat style, or primary casting. These feats are for secondary strategies, and rounding out the character's fluff. All feats are subject to GM approval. If you whinge, you forfit the feat slot.


I agree with this one, and think that every other thing that the players wanted should be denied. This is the only one that isn't clearly power gaming.

YawarFiesta wrote:

Pimp Paladin with leadership and open your own brothel, have your cohort be a cleric with the travel domain so you could check your business regularly.

Death Metal Arcane Duelist dressed like Kiss and uses his guitar as bludgeoning weapon or even has it modified as a waraxe. Hail Krauser-sama!

Barbarian engineer, put Master craftman feat and various craft feats, has and armor of glamer to conceal it, its as middle manner as an old english dandy except when he is ¨angry¨, you can call him mister Jeckyl.

Make a Summoner and role play the Eidolon as if it where the master and the summoner its servant.

A barbarian halfling with the mount powers who mounts another PC, idealy a cavalier.


Okay, I totally love your summoner.

Respectable Hobbit wrote:
I was thinking Neutral Good or Chaotic Good for alignment.

I made a witch recently and assumed that the patron was also kind of a minor diety that the witch sort of worshipped. If that doesn't work, pick one that would not mind competing with the patron for the character's affection and loyalty.

james maissen wrote:
CJohnJones wrote:

I am really liking my monk. He's the party scout and, via some good selections for traits, non-magical trapfinder and lockpicker. I got so many free feats that I have feats to burn. We're level 5...

I would suggest skill focus: stealth as the pre-req for hellcat stealth to help you in scouting.

Also if you have a scouting 'buddy' (even if it is an animal companion or the like) consider getting lookout tactical feat for both of you. Being able to full attack in a surprise round (likely the one you started) can be insanely powerful, especially if you get initiative over them and thus get to full attack again...


Wisdom of the flesh is a great trait for this as well. The bonus being that Irori is a great god for a monk. In my case, I took it for trapfinding rather than stealth, which could seem cheesy but I worked it into my background well enough.

As for playing well with others, you are correct that there is no serious synergy with group members, but just about any archer has that issue besides the bard. A ranged damage dealer rarely hurts the situation, though. In group fights you can always switch targets to kill whatever is closest to death. No party really needs an archer, but that's the curse of almost any "pure" striker type.

I went over this a bunch when making my current game character. I eventually decided that Arcane Archer is a trap. You are going to have a magic bow, so the +1 imbue won't do anything (your imbue doesn't stack with a +1 bow or +1 arrow, and you can't add other powers to a weapon until it has +1 on it. Imbue is typed unlike the arcane strike bonus). You are going to have a magic bow that does holy or shock or whatever damage, but eventually your AA is going to get that too, so that does stack nicely. The burst attacks are nice. You won't get tons from the ability to center spells on your arrows because your caster level is low. It's not useless but it's not awesome sauce. In return you lose all of the monk bonuses including ac, movement, high saves, extra attacks from the 15 flurry bump AND from using ki points (plus other cool uses of ki like short term ac bonuses), more ki points, more perfect shot uses, the ability to threaten with a bow etc.

Finally, you have to PLAY this character. Straight monk makes for better RP and there will be several levels on the way up during which you will be weaker than you would have been if you had not multiclassed, because you don't have the cool AA powers yet. So, assuming your campaign actually goes on long enough to get you to the top, you might be marginally more powerful at the end but you'll be weaker at points on the way up.

IMHO, AA is a bard prestige class. If AA is what you want most, I would go Arcane Duelist bard. With the arcane strike you will be in the same ballpark (a bit weaker to hit, one point better damage) as the monk, get the bard's underrated casting and have much better synergy with the AA class. Take weapon of ancients or whatever it is called for your .5 elf to get longbow. If you just want to be a badass archer, there are many routes including monk.

I am really liking my monk. He's the party scout and, via some good selections for traits, non-magical trapfinder and lockpicker. I got so many free feats that I have feats to burn. We're level 5 and he hasn't taken forever to come to fruition. Starting at level 3 I became a nice, fully effective member of the party.

Sir Dante wrote:
W. John Hare wrote:

One of the hiccups with a Zen Archer/Arcane Archer build is that you wind up losing some of the Flurry of Blows from the monk as you specifically need monk levels for it to increase. Breakpoints are lvl 8 and 15 (when they get to add additional attacks to their flurries).

So at most you probably only want a 1 level dip into Wizard. So the earliest you can take AA would be at lvl 10 (Monk 8/Wiz 1 = BAB +6).

Another cute point is that it has been stated that being an elf/half-elf should no longer be a requirement for AA.

As for build you want high Str/Wis (double 18's if you can get em!), Int 12.

So races that would have a bonus to either Str/Wis are good. Dwarf, 1/2 Elf, 1/2 Orc, Human are decent choices.

Yes that's true, but I don't actually like dwarves or orcs and RP wise I find being a half elf better, while also it won't be such a power house it could be, I find it above average, calling it a good dmg build in a sense, maybe not amazing but good enough and for my RP it's better this way.

It has been clarified many times by Paizo people on these boards that the monk levels stack with other class bab increases on your flurry. The reason that they say "monk levels" is just meant to say "rather than your monk bab." Thus AA bab bonus stacks with monk level for flurry attack bonus. You do, however, have to get the fourth level and 8th level increases in number of attacks by being a monk, since that is a special ability granted for being a monk (by giving flurry increases = to twf increases). Some searching should find the references fairly easily and you could print or send a link to your GM or something to make sure he or she is with you on this.

As for Wizard, may I suggest qualifying for AA with a single level of bard, arcane duellist variant. At first level you get arcane strike as a bonus feat which more-or-less negates the bab you lose for taking a level of an arcane class.

Just a comment about the sleeping part. Waking up the Wyverns before you kill them is the kind of act that gets Paladins called "Lawful Stupid." Giant lizards aren't exactly enemy champions seeking trial by combat. Indeed, the only remotely evil act I see in the whole situation is failure to track and kill the suffering escapee.

Adventurers kill a lot of sentient creatures. No actual nonevil person racks up a body count like that. Sentience is just less precious in a fantasy universe.

Anyway, at this point I would save things by making him a special little atonement quest that makes his character the center of attention for a bit with a small, individualized reward if his pally genuinely seems to have learned his lesson. Maybe save some beasts that are only harassing a community because their habitat is being destroyed or something.

Also, I would have less of a hair trigger if the paladin generally acts good and doesn't do things like tell lies (besides white lies). Too often the very fact that paladins have a code makes people look too closely at every action sometime. He killed some monsters. That's what adventurers do.

Monks have to submit to the discipline of an order for many years to develop their skills. I think lawfulness is a perfectly reasonable requirement. Depending on how your group plays, this doesn't have to be a big deal. If a character shows even a bit of restraint some of the time and gives a small nod to authority now and then, she'll be a paragon of la2w in most gaming groups.

Majuba wrote:
CJohnJones wrote:
Majuba wrote:

Masterwork arrows only give a +1 to hit, and they cost 7 gp each, not for 20.
Conveniently, masterwork Durable arrows also cost 7gp each. Elves of Golarion.

Quite true. Though masterwork arrows are only useful until you can afford a masterwork bow. And durable arrows become a negligent savings quite quickly (as they don't save the magic). Very nice to have a few though, in case you're in a situation where you're going to run out of arrows!

KenderKin wrote:

The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition).

The unit of ammunition being 20 arrows not 1!

I'm afraid not. The reason it's 6gp is pricing based on 50 units of ammunition. +300/50 = +6, per arrow. Same with the magic rules (+1 arrows = +2300/50 = +46 per arrow).

Edit: Same for silver arrows by the way (2gp each, not +2gp per 20).

Do masterwork arrows and bows not stack? I would think that quality workmanship would apply from each item, unlike magic, which is imparted to the arrow from a bow.

Edit: Looked that up...it doesn't. Sigh. Must be a game balance thing, because i would think that a quality arrow would still be sharper or whatever when fired from a quality bow.

Majuba wrote:
KenderKin wrote:

At first level masterwork arrows give a +1 to damage

and only cost 7 GP for 20 instead of 1 GP, so you can afford them....

Masterwork arrows only give a +1 to hit, and they cost 7 gp each, not for 20.

Bagpuss wrote:
Do people tend to get magic bows or magic arrows (or, rather, what are the favoured magic enhancements to get on the bows and what on the arrows)?
In general, it's better to enchant the bow, because it lasts. Straight +'s are good (rapid/deadly/cover tend to drop to-hit quickly), and things like Holy. After you have a +3 or +4 bow, +1 arrows with some sort of +1 effect on them can be quite handy. Merciful, Bane, or flame/frost/shock are nice.

Conveniently, masterwork Durable arrows also cost 7gp each. Elves of golarion.

Fumihasa wrote:
Hmm thanks for the quick replies, I guess I should just invest in a bunch of different arrow types then. Thanks!

And an efficient quiver. And slippers of spider climbing.

Jubbly wrote:

My group has just gone through this - out of the box there is no great archer love to be found.

Depending how your GM does the supporting bits of the campaign, you also might not get a good opportunity to purchase interesting items until mid point into the next part - The Jackal's Price.
Personally I have been mean with treasure availability for the party - given them only whats listed and had very few interesting items on merchants stuck in the boondocks that they are.
I gave my group a year off between 1 and 2, and let the ranger wander abroad for the sole purpose of finding a bow to buy ! He really wanted a nice bow above any other concern, so I let him go find one, whilst everyone else busied themselves more productively. Other than that excursion its been lean and mean.
Of course, now they are all excited and motivated about getting to a decent city with lots of shopping opportunities, no bad thing.

Thanks for that. When I can shop, I will prioritize the archer gear when shopping and just see what wanders along otherwise. I( am playing a non-greedy Zen Archer Monk, anyway, and will try with him to avoid the candy store mentality that people often have about loot.

Noteleks wrote:
I was just curious if lets say you were a rogue/wizard could you use shocking grasp and then on the next round strike with a rapier or dagger and add the shocking grasp damage?

Well, since the fact that metal is conductive is the basis of the idea, the fact that electricity isn't going to sit around in a piece of metal, stored for even a few seconds, might also come into play. I mean that it wouldn't just hang around in a weapon for a round, waiting to be discharged.

If you do allow it, just for fun, I'd say that if the player misses they have a chance of being shocked (save or drop weapon) or something like that. On a critical miss, I'd make the player eat the spell.

You can be super smart and totally slow to react. I doubt that the same could be said for someone with really fast reflexes. Acting in the moment is about doing what you already know how to do, what you are trained to do, and doing it reflexively.

Buffy acts before Giles. Han acts before C-3P0. Spock...well, Spock rolled all 18s, didn't he?

James Jacobs wrote:
Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
I don't know about your GM, but with the game I'm running, I often replace items for items of similar value that my players will actually be able to use. At least when it makes sense to do so.
This is the baseline assumption I hold when creating APs, honestly. And now and then, I make sure to actually write this assumption into the adventures so that GMs who might not have thought of the possibility of changing treasure to more closely match his particular group's interests are will consider it.

Well, there's hope then. Our GM has said he plans to go with the listed treasure, so I guess that when I have a chance to buy I had better play it safe and get my bow on.

Basically, is there much in the way of archery gear in this series? 2 and up, that is? Specifically in the House of the Beast on through the end?

I am playing an archer in such a campaign. I don't want to know what there is, where it is, who has it or anything like that. I really just want to know IF there is some archer love in the treasure heaps.

Cartigan wrote:
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
I don't mind that there was not a "paladin for every alignment" class. As it stands now, LG, LN and NG deities can have LG paladins, but who is the elite warrior of Good for the CG deities? I want that kind of holy warrior, with the fighter abilities and the limited spell casting, that can be NG or CG and not just LG.
Paladin for every alignment and Paladin for every extremity are not the same thing. Also, isn't the Antipaladin mostly built as a "lol I'm not a Paladin?"

I can see being Lawful Good and following a CG deity. The Deity may be chaotic, but she has tenets and the paladin still believes in the letter of those tenets and that what is written in the holy books is an absolute guide to living her life. About the only thing that that might change would be the stance on lying for a paladin of a trickster deity, and even then the pally would not be about lying for personal gain, but rather to to enact tricks in the general style of said deity. Such a paladin might uphold a standard like that in the Declaration of Independence and hold those self-evident truths above temporal law. They kind of do so anyway when they do stuff like free the slaves of some Gnolls, whose society allows them to own slaves and stuff like that.

And yeah, the Antipaladin is kind of for fun and, maybe, the occasional evil-themed campaign. Well, and for NPCs. A lot of the stuff in the APG seems aimed at NPCS.

VikingIrishman wrote:

So last session, my Orc Ranger died due to a combination of paralysis and coup de grace. The GM does his stats a little differently than I'm used to, as he uses what he calls "dice pool." Essentially, you allot 4 dice to each stat and then have 12 extra dice to allot as you see fit. roll the dice take highest 3. I just went with 6 dice for each stat and came up with:

Str 10
Dex 17
Con 16
Int 16
Wis 16
Cha 17

Now, our party is pretty seriously lacking a ranged character, and the low Str/high Dex combo just screams archer to me, and the high Wis made me think of Monk for AC purposes.

That being said, does anyone have any advice as for which feats to pick up and when?

I'm considering being an elf, as that would bump my Dex to 19 and my Int to 18, so I could pick up Focused Shot and be getting a +4 to my damage with my bow. I'm also considering picking up the Vital Strike feats to make to most of Focused Shot each round at higher levels.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

People like to insist that archers need high strength, like that 2 points of damage per round if you had a fourteen is make-or-break. Eventually you will get a damaging bow, plus deadly aim and that will dwarf your strength bonus.

That said, your stats mean you can do anything but melee, really. If you can get a gm to go for it, you could be a pally of Sarenrae and take the dervish feat. That would be awesomeness.

Charlie Bell wrote:
grasshopper_ea wrote:
Noble Scion:narikoplus


First, I'd go 14 STR, 12 DEX instead of the other way around, and always use the best STR bow you can.

The Zen Archer monk is so nice because there's such a plethora of good archery feats, you get a ton of bonus feats, and two of the best archery feats you don't need at all: Rapid Shot and Manyshot you can ignore since your flurry will be better. Also ignore Far Shot--during a normal adventuring career of 1-20, you will probably only actually use it maybe 5 encounters. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Deadly Aim should be the first 3 feats you take. Weapon Focus you get for free. Take Imp. Precise Shot as soon as you can (6th level bonus feat) and your days of missing shots will basically be over (ignore cover/concealment less than total). You don't need such things as Stabbing Shot because you still threaten with your monk unarmed strike. Pick up Combat Reflexes by 9th level so you can make fullest use of your Reflexive Shot ability. Deflect Arrows is situational for most monks; since they run into melee, they are at highest risk from melee attacks. You, OTOH, will be trying your best to stay at range, so you will be taking more ranged weapon fire and Deflect Arrows will consequently be a better choice. Snatch Arrows is cool, but not especially useful. Scorpion Style actually gives you some great synergy with ranged weapons and monk speed; if you find yourself in melee, you can Scorpion strike, run your speed away, and take several free rounds of ranged flurries before the enemy can catch up to you. Imp Crit is great, but you can take it at 11th level anyways, so I'd take Pinpoint Targeting as your 10th level bonus feat (if you don't take it as your lvl 10 bonus feat, you can NEVER get it--+16 BAB prerequisite). I can see uses for Spider Step and Cloud Step, which can allow you to put yourself in otherwise unreachable sniping positions. Really, though, you get enough feats and bonus feats that by the time you hit lvl 6 or...

I had my first game with this yesterday. It went decently, and I was an acceptable damage add. Kind of a one trick pony, but I climbed up things with the slippers of spider climbing and did my turret impression. Thanks for the advice. Those slippers are gold, plus as a bonus it has the whole "Crouching Tiger" climbing the walls thing covered for a monk. No if only our fighter-type was any kind of a tank.

Ryu_Hitome wrote:

I believe I saw somewhere (been awhile) that Arcane Archer was supposed to have been made available to all races, and that the elf pre-req was a holdover from 3.5 that shouldn't have been kept. Since I don't think it was changed in the errata though, I can't make any promises.

However, the Elves of Golarion has a section on "Alchemical Arrows" that have special new effects you might be interested in, so playing an elf might still be an option.

Furthermore, if you can use 3.5 stuff, there's a feat called Kung Fu Genius from a former Dragon Magazine that lets you use your Int for Monk stuff. It was later reprinted in the Dragon Compendium.

Also, Rapid Shot and Bow Flurry don't stack, so I'd suggest Snatch Arrows (to conserve your ammo or turn about a nasty attack) or Extra Ki instead, especially if you plan on multi-classing.

Arcane Archer for humans? That I'd like to find.

So, I am about to join a Legacy of fire campaign, and I want to try out the new Zen Archer Monk. Starting level is 5 so I get to avoid the worst of the "growing pains" years. My restrictions are: 20 point buy, no stat below 12 (for rp purposes I'm not going to pile every last point into WIS. Dips into another class are okay, but not so long as to cripple my flurry of blows progression (assuming that flurry is better than just using rapid shot and manyshot).

Also, 10,000 gold to spend on magic.

Party has cleric, fighter and sorc.

Should probably be human, but I am open to a particularly good Arcane archer build using half elf or the racial heritage feat (which is better for my roleplaying background).

Currently I am thinking 12,14,12,12,17 (+1 for fourth level), 12 for stats. Feats (including freebies and bonus feats): improved initiative, toughness, deadly aim, precise shot, wpn focus: longbow, point blank shot zen archery, point blank master and either rapid shot or dodge.

For gear I was thinking of a +2 headband of intellect, wand of mage armor, an efficient quiver, some durable arrows and then trying to cobble together some kind of bow if I have the cash. Might have to skip the quiver for now to do that.

Any thoughts (besides make a fighter or ranger instead)?

Wolfthulhu wrote:
As much as every part of my logical thinking brain cries "No!", RAW states:
Elf/Orc Blood: Half-elves/orcs count as both humans and elves/orcs for any effect related to race.
Probably an unforeseen loophole, I can't see this as an intended benefit to the Halfbreed races.

If the answer wasn't "no" they would have just referenced the human favored class bonuses instead of printing new ones.

Kerney wrote:

Well here are some RL people I would classify as Oracles--

Most of the Biblical Prophets, particularly older ones like Moses, Abraham, Deborah. In fact, as religions get started they have lots of Oracles at first and then, as things get 'organized' tend to have more Clerics.

Joan of Arc and Francis or Assisi certainly.

Deganawida and more recently Crazy Horse (dual classed).

Basically, anyone with a mystical connection to their deity as opposed to being trained in a seminary tend to be Oracles.

All the Best,


Joan and Francis are great calls: battle and nature respectively. Crazy Horse could just be battle as well, in a world that had moved beyond armor he might get some kind of riding ability instead.

I have this idea of an oracle as someone who is simply beloved of certain spirits, the type which would be determined by revelation. They just hang around the character and sometimes do their will, grant them blessings etc.

lastknightleft wrote:
YuenglingDragon wrote:

On topic, I think that while there could be great thematic synergy between a bone Oracle and the Witch, having two casting stats is tough on the point buy.

On the side topic of the Haunted curse:

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

I agree with DankeSean and Glutton. None of the other curses affect your ability to cast spells, the deaf curse specifically gives you a workaround for your deafness.

Plus, "Retrieve a stored object" is an actual entry on the Action in Combat table. If you're not performing a "Retrieve Stored Item" action, I don't think the curse should be affecting you.

I feel like that's pretty definitive, short of staff jumping on the topic.
Then that means it doesn't affect ranged combat either, as retrieving amunition is a free action as part of your attack.

I worked a bit on a witch/oracle build to fill both skillmonkey and party face roles. You dump str, leave dex at base, jack up INT, have a middling score in cha. 1st level you get witch, cackle and feat: extra hex - fortune. You take Practised caster or whatever that trait is called to avoid losing caster levels. Also get a trait that gets you diplomacy. Then two oracle levels, knowledge oracle. Get the revelation to apply cha to reflex and ac and the one to get all knowledge skills as class skills. Then back to witch. As a variant, you can switch Int and Cha, oracle-witch-sorc instead.

Flavor text: You are beloved of spirits and they grant you powers, but they also haunt you for refusing to become evil. Works especially well with a sorc domain that has a flavor from a group of outsiders, such as abyssal or fey.

I didn't use it because at some point it crosses from working to get a concept in into min-maxing. Also, it's more powerful if you just go sorc/oracle, but the real flavor I wanted was witchy. I just went straight witch instead.

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
CJohnJones wrote:

C: Look, you just killed the evil necromancer and cleansed his tower of its taint. What are you going to do, just leave stuff there? Maybe so the next evil necromancer has a head start, or bandits or orcs can clean the place out instead of you? This guy lived entirely outside the laws, and you don't have to post a notice in case his third cousin wants his wand.

The trouble here comes when you decide to dispose of the loot.

Let's say, among the necromancer's loot, there's a really nice necklace. It's not only beautiful but distinctive, with the maker's mark and everything, so when you sell it in the town, the jeweler who made it not only identifies his own work, but knows he sold it to some noble who gave it to his wife and had her buried with it and is rather upset to find out that the necromancer not only brought her back as a ghoul to be one of his undead minions (which the adventurers destroyed) but the necromancer also stole her jewelry, including a number of nice items the party is wearing, since the necklace wasn't the only thing the necromancer stole from the noblewoman's mausoleum.

Of course, what the nobleman is really upset about is what happened to his wife's remains, but unless the party can convince him that they disposed of all of the necromancer's minions remains with appropriate and respectful funerary rites--which adventurers seldom do--he's going to be demanding every last bit of his wife's possessions since he has the receipts and witnesses to prove who they belonged to, and just because you killed a graverobber doesn't mean you get to keep the stuff the graverobber stole.

Saying that the nobleman should be glad the party whacked the undead mockery that the necromancer made of his wife? This would hold a lot more water if the party presented him with an urn with ashes rather than telling him they dumped the ghoul's bones down the necromancer's outhouse.

Well, I don't think that it would be awesome to the party to do that all of the time, but you have just created a really great adventure hook IMHO.

TheOrangeOne wrote:

I did some quick searches on the message boards with little results. Here is my question...

How does a Lawful (good) or anything Lawful aligned character justify looting after dropping an enemy? Or even allowing it? I have just gone with the flow for the most part as in just don't bring it up as it causes to many debates that slows game play down... anyone want to throw me some opinions please?

A: You could totally make it work otherwise in your world, but if the players started keeping stuff anyway, you would have to come up with relatives and a legal system devoted to transferrance of inherited property. Also, you would have to provide another way to make a living, like doing things for pay. That's getting kinda close to the players' real lives.

B: In historical times, armies were often paid in loot, and the soldiers were just doing what was normal and expected by looting. Of course, they did a lot worse than that, and no matter how accepted it was other elements of sacking a city were plain old evil.

C: Look, you just killed the evil necromancer and cleansed his tower of its taint. What are you going to do, just leave stuff there? Maybe so the next evil necromancer has a head start, or bandits or orcs can clean the place out instead of you? This guy lived entirely outside the laws, and you don't have to post a notice in case his third cousin wants his wand.

Set wrote:
Evil Genius Prime wrote:
Stuff like this is why I don't usually allow Evil PCs in my games.

This sounds like the exact sort of situation that led to us banning Paladins (and UE's Paladin/Cavaliers) back in the days of 1st and 2nd edition, actually. Too much PVP and interparty conflict and backstabbing / betraying / abandoning other PCs that didn't play their non-Paladin characters by the Paladin players interpretation of the Paladin code. It's not the alignment of the character, it's the player acting out antisocial tendencies that's the problem. Someone who wants to be confrontational and competitive, instead of playing a cooperative game, is going to be even worse as a LG than they would be as a LE, because they'd go all PVP and be all self-righteous about it (and, in my experience, are far more likely to drag it into a real-world argument about morality, and accuse their players whose characters they just backstabbed of being evil or degenerate IRL, as happens on various D&D forums pretty much any time someone suggests a white necromancer concept).

If it wasn't for Paladin players, I wouldn't even know what the word 'killstealing' was.

CN (played as crazy psycho), CE (*malicious* crazy psycho), NE (stupidly selfish, willing to kill anyone for a rusty copper, even if it's guaranteed to get him killed in the process) and LG (willing to attack fellow PCs for insufficient respect, attack NPCs, town guards, merchants, etc. for being uppity and not deferential enough and not offering them special treatment because of their 'goodness,' etc.) are the top four jerk-magnet alignments, in my experience.

This sorcerer player sounds like he should have chosen CE, instead of LE, since his character is acting more like the Joker than Dr. Doom.

God I hated it when people played pallys that way. On the other hand, I hate it just as much when they don't heed their alignments at all. A paladin is the perfect device to bring out the wanker either way.

Evil Genius Prime wrote:

From browsing around on these boards and others, I've noticed that quite a few GMs no longer use the Alignment system. My Question to you is this. If you no longer use the Alignment System, how do you handle issues of alignment (character actions, Clerics, Paladins, certain spells, etc) that pop up in your game?

This thread IS NOT a discussion about Alignment debates (what is a Lawful or Chaotic action, etc).

It is merely a discussion of how the GMs that no longer use Alignments in their game handle certain issues.

I used to think that alignment was a bad idea. I mostly have run Warhammer, which is alignment-free and never missed it. It does simulate the world represented by a lot of fiction, though. In a world where gods exist and even compete, I can see that some clear divisions regarding people's codes of conduct might arise and be helpful. Think of the way that Europeans used to just equate being a Christian with being a good person, part of the one true church. Well, being lawful good or whatever alignment you are is a bit like that.

In addition, it isn't the straight jacket that a lot of people seem to imagine. If you are chaotic good, you aren't really restricted to that just because you wrote it on your sheet. You do what you want, and take the alignment shifts that come along with that. The exceptions are Clerics, Paladins and Monks. Clerics should just choose a god with an alignment that they can live with (rather than for a favored weapon or some such). Paladins and Monks who can't be at least fairly good or lawful (in a game where you can still be good or lawful while killing people and taking their stuff, that shouldn't be that hard)just shouldn't take the class.

My final defense of alignment is this: A lot of perfectly nice, reasonable players turn into stealing, murdering, torturing psychopaths in the game world. Alignment can, once in awhile, help just a teeny bit in containing that.

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Witch hexes:

I cannot find anything which states the number of times a day a witch can use a generic hex in the witch section. Is the use per day of any given hex level related? Is it intelligence related? Is it limited only by available legal targets (some hexes do after all have built-in restrictions on the number of times that they can be used on a target)? Some clarification in the Witch entry on this topic would have been useful.

I think that you found your answer. They aren't limited except as written in the text.

Veiled Nail wrote:

I've been examining the APG. Very pleased with most of the content...except the Holy Vindicator.

It is too good. I feel it violates the principle that prestige classes should not be incredibly better than the base classes.

The mechanics of this principle can be implemented in the following ways:

1. The requirements of the PrC require tradeoffs

example: Arcane trickster requires 3 levels of rogue and 3 levels (minimum) of some arcane class

2. The class progression involves tradeoffs from the base class(es) used to qualify for it

Continuing example: Arcane trickster forgoes the capstone abilities of the arcane class and the additional rogue talents (including improved evasion)

I interpret the holy vinidcator as being designed for a paladin, but really being best taken by a cleric. There is little reason to continue in cleric past 8th level when a holy vindicator is available.

As long as you are min-maxing, you could just take that trait that adds 2 to your casting cl, which can't exceed your total level. That way you can multiclass away two levels of your class and mostly just lose two levels of spell progression.


A paladin gives up:
additional Lay on Hands
Divine Bond
Smite Evil
Aura powers
Holy Champion

They gain no new proficiencies, BAB or HD and lose 3 spellcasting levels (from a weak progression).

A cleric who waits to level 9 to start holy vindicator (so the 8th level domain power kicks in) gains the following (on top of PrC powers):

Better HD (d8 -> d10)
Better BAB (3/4 -> full)
Martial Weapon Proficiencies
Heavy Armor Proficiencies

And loses:
up to 3 levels of spellcasting
increased duration/power for some (but not all) domain powers


Channel Energy continues to stack with this PrC.

4 levels of Holy Vindicator means only a -1 caster level to spellcasting.

What cleric wouldn't dip into this PrC for the proficiencies and the HD/BAB (at least for 4 levels)?

Not having a cleric capstone makes divine spellcasting PrCs very difficult to design, because anything with decent caster progression is very tempting. I know this was dropped for a reason from the Beta...

If the question is coming up at character creation, you could take that trait that gives you +2 cl that can't exceed your overall level.

Darkholme wrote:

I can't figure out why the witches familiar costs 500g per witch level and the wizard's arcane bond costs 200g per level to replace, but has a bigger wait time.

Is the higher price to compensate for the shorter wait?

I'm seriously considering giving both of them the same cost and the wait time of 1 day in my upcoming game. Comments on if that is bad or good?

If you are playing with GM who tends to kill familiars, don't play a witch. Discuss it with your GM first. I just did that for my new witch. Basically "Look, I won't endanger my familiar by using it to cast, apply touch spells or scout dangerous areas if we can just assume that it is smart enough to climb into a shoulder bag or whatever when danger is afoot."

If you use your familiar for flavor and the basic bonuses, a GM shouldn't attack it. Your wand-using Quasit or touch-delivering celestial falcon, on the other hand, is fair game.

As for witches not being intelligence-based, it really depends on what book/movie/whatever the witch is in. Witches who cast via complicated spells are INT - based (eye of newt and all that). Witches who call upon gods or devils would be Wis-Based. Witches who primarily call on spirits would be Cha-based.

Of course, one could say that all three are just flavored versions of the Wizard, Cleric and Summoner.

gordbond wrote:

guys i have a question. I have a player who is playing a sorceror LE (lawful Evil) and today they captured a fey who was fighting in combat, when his leader died he put up his hands and surrendered. saying "i give up i surrender dont kill me." He put his hands on top of his head and got down on his knees, he was on 1 hp, the sorcerer cast magic missile doing 11 points of damage. which put him to -10 bleeding out. Two characters cured him and tied him up. They questioned him. THe sorceror wanted to kill him.

After questioning him the bard kicked him off a tower ledge but he was tied up and two characters saved him. The sorceror acid splashed the rope the sorceror pulled out his crossbow and shot at him. Then the bard cut the rope and sent him his death. THe sorceror loaded and fired his crossbow into this head.

Is this a lawful evil act?

He was deliberating over the fact that it was an evil act to kill a surrendered prisoner, and a lawful act to accept his surrender and not harm him.

Accepting a surrender and then not following up is not Lawful. Lawful characters keep their word, don't make capricious turnarounds. On the other hand, you say the Sorc and Bard wanted this guy dead. Was that from the start? Did they ever explicitly or implicitly accept the surrender or were they just held at bay by the argument with their comrades?

Either way, associating with these two when not absolutely necessary should cause alignment shifts for good characters.

Current wrote:

Recently in a campaign our team picked up a mithril quarterstaff from a NPC.I know the rules specifically state that a quarterstaff cannot be made of mithril but an NPC apparently had it. Mithril would weight about 4x as much as wood, so I was wondering how would the stats differ since its made of mithril.


I would just assume that it is mithril-shod or tipped. Still a wooden staff, but you can whack that vamp.

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