I am okay with a disced cannon as long as it is not firing. It needs to be set up to fire as normal.
Anyone know how much siege weapons weigh?
I was looking for that earlier but couldn't find it. All I found was the weight for ammo, which we would also need a way to "cart" around.
Here's my idea.
We have a year and some cash. I'm looking for something impressive, but not ridiculously overpowered for my caster to be able to do.
So here's my idea. Its simple enough. Over the course of our year I'd like to get my symbol of office enchanted to be able to case the spell Spontaneous Immolation. Seems appropriate for an evoker.
The math:
SPell level 2 X Caster level 3 X 1800gp (Spell completion) = 10,800gp (5400 gp to craft)
If for some reason we don't have arms and Armor available, I'll just make a glove that does the same thing.
I'm going to scrap the Cannon idea for now.
Over the last year I'm going to do the above if no one has any objections.
Anyone have any issues with me using 5400 GP for this? With such a thing we can effectively surround the place and I can light up someone every time they show their face. It if turns into a war of attrition it should be useful.
Do we have access to arms and armor or do I just need to enchant a glove to do the same?
We'll do the siege engine thing after we can work our a floating battle platform.
How much money do we have in the group fund? I don't think we ever got a solid answer.
I'm keen to get this out of the way guys; I think this is the last thing before we end the turn.
Let's say 5320 from the Crossbow and Axe. Should cover a bec de corpbin at least.
and I believe this loot was still unclaimed
potions of cure moderate wounds (3), potions of pass without trace (2), screaming bolts (4), tanglefoot bag, +2 studded leather, amulet of natural armor +1, cloak of resistance +2, antitoxin
Belt of Con +2
Bracers of Armor +1
If you guys want (and the character sheets in your aliases are up to date) I can look through everyone's stuff and try to assign the loot somewhat fairly.
I thought the amulet and the cloak were claimed. The potions too. If not, then they should be handed out.
The belt of Con is definitely a keeper too.
The rest should be sold.
We'll do the siege engine thing after we can work our a floating battle platform.
I now have a pool with my wife for when you guys try to build your death star! ;P
@Forsten: you want to be the party treasure tracker? It burns people out, man...
Fine with me if you want to.
Here's my idea.
We have a year and some cash. I'm looking for something impressive, but not ridiculously overpowered for my caster to be able to do.
So here's my idea. Its simple enough. Over the course of our year I'd like to get my symbol of office enchanted to be able to case the spell Spontaneous Immolation. Seems appropriate for an evoker.
The math:
SPell level 2 X Caster level 3 X 1800gp (Spell completion) = 10,800gp (5400 gp to craft)
If for some reason we don't have arms and Armor available, I'll just make a glove that does the same thing.
I'm going to scrap the Cannon idea for now.
Over the last year I'm going to do the above if no one has any objections.
Anyone have any issues with me using 5400 GP for this? With such a thing we can effectively surround the place and I can light up someone every time they show their face. It if turns into a war of attrition it should be useful.
Do we have access to arms and armor or do I just need to enchant a glove to do the same?
Feel like I'm missing something but first looks this seems balanced and reasonable.
We'll do the siege engine thing after we can work our a floating battle platform.I now have a pool with my wife for when you guys try to build your death star! ;P
@Forsten: you want to be the party treasure tracker? It burns people out, man...
Fine with me if you want to.
We'll do the siege engine thing after we can work our a floating battle platform.I now have a pool with my wife for when you guys try to build your death star! ;P
@Forsten: you want to be the party treasure tracker? It burns people out, man...
Fine with me if you want to.
Don't get me started. In another game I built a weapon that was dubbed the "Yacht Cannon" that was capable of dropping somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000,000,000d6 damage anywhere in the world.
Save for 1/2, DC about 100.
@Forsten: you want to be the party treasure tracker? It burns people out, man...
Fine with me if you want to.
Not particularly but it doesn't seem like anyone else is even interested in claiming treasure. This group is just weird.
[Over the course of our year I'd like to get my symbol of office enchanted to be able to case the spell Spontaneous Immolation. Seems appropriate for an evoker.Feel like I'm missing something but first looks this seems balanced and reasonable.
It is.
It's an at will, point-and-click 2d6 fire damage. There are much better 2nd level spells to turn into at will abilities.
In combat it will be no more effective than a Composite Bow wielded by someone with a decent strength.
From an in-world stance, as it relates to a game like ours, this will be a pretty fearsome tool. It will mean that we will win pretty much all sieges. A never-ending source of "burn your house down" is a nasty trick.
[Over the course of our year I'd like to get my symbol of office enchanted to be able to case the spell Spontaneous Immolation. Seems appropriate for an evoker.Feel like I'm missing something but first looks this seems balanced and reasonable.It is.
It's an at will, point-and-click 2d6 fire damage. There are much better 2nd level spells to turn into at will abilities.
In combat it will be no more effective than a Composite Bow wielded by someone with a decent strength.
From an in-world stance, as it relates to a game like ours, this will be a pretty fearsome tool. It will mean that we will win pretty much all sieges. A never-ending source of "burn your house down" is a nasty trick.
I wanted to go with a long range evocation. Eventually I'd like to upgrade it to have a reach spell effect. Basically 400 + feet vs 100+ feet. Couldn't afford it this time around.
Edit: Can you think of a better 2nd level Evocation for me to have?
Oh, DM, i'd like it so that I can use my "change the energy type" power with this item. Wont change much, but adds flavor.
I had claimed the Cloak of Resistance +2. That's why I had the +1 cloak to give away. (Unless we got two and I missed it.)
[Over the course of our year I'd like to get my symbol of office enchanted to be able to case the spell Spontaneous Immolation. Seems appropriate for an evoker.Feel like I'm missing something but first looks this seems balanced and reasonable.It is.
It's an at will, point-and-click 2d6 fire damage. There are much better 2nd level spells to turn into at will abilities.
In combat it will be no more effective than a Composite Bow wielded by someone with a decent strength.
From an in-world stance, as it relates to a game like ours, this will be a pretty fearsome tool. It will mean that we will win pretty much all sieges. A never-ending source of "burn your house down" is a nasty trick.
I wanted to go with a long range evocation. Eventually I'd like to upgrade it to have a reach spell effect. Basically 400 + feet vs 100+ feet. Couldn't afford it this time around.
Edit: Can you think of a better 2nd level Evocation for me to have?
Oh, DM, i'd like it so that I can use my "change the energy type" power with this item. Wont change much, but adds flavor.
Not for evocation, no. That's a great pick.
[Over the course of our year I'd like to get my symbol of office enchanted to be able to case the spell Spontaneous Immolation. Seems appropriate for an evoker.Feel like I'm missing something but first looks this seems balanced and reasonable.It is.
It's an at will, point-and-click 2d6 fire damage. There are much better 2nd level spells to turn into at will abilities.
In combat it will be no more effective than a Composite Bow wielded by someone with a decent strength.
From an in-world stance, as it relates to a game like ours, this will be a pretty fearsome tool. It will mean that we will win pretty much all sieges. A never-ending source of "burn your house down" is a nasty trick.
I wanted to go with a long range evocation. Eventually I'd like to upgrade it to have a reach spell effect. Basically 400 + feet vs 100+ feet. Couldn't afford it this time around.
Edit: Can you think of a better 2nd level Evocation for me to have?
Oh, DM, i'd like it so that I can use my "change the energy type" power with this item. Wont change much, but adds flavor.
The 8th level power sure, but the 1st level power's limit is on spells you can cast, isn't it? That's why the 8th level power is actually good?.
That said, if you are just going for an energy attack each round we can probably work something out.
Anglon; okay, you can buy a horse.
Grey; you can buy scrolls of animate dead during the year. There are a number of corpses. Do you want a unit of skeleton archers, or an undead spider?
Am I missing anything?
Can people post what they buy in the kingdom thread please.
I wanted to go with a long range evocation. Eventually I'd like to upgrade it to have a reach spell effect. Basically 400 + feet vs 100+ feet. Couldn't afford it this time around.Edit: Can you think of a better 2nd level Evocation for me to have?
Oh, DM, i'd like it so that I can use my "change the energy type" power with this item. Wont change much, but adds flavor.
The 8th level power sure, but the 1st level power's limit is on spells you can cast, isn't it? That's why the 8th level power is actually good?.
That said, if you are just going for an energy attack each round we can probably work something out.
I know it doesn't technically work. I wanted to alter it during construction so that I could use it.
Basically I was hoping to use my signature power with my signature attack from my signature weapon. :-)
Grey; you can buy scrolls of animate dead during the year. There are a number of corpses. Do you want a unit of skeleton archers, or an undead spider?
I can actually do both. :)
I have 3 different sources of Undead control. (See the bottom of my sheet)
Think of them as "buckets" full of hit dice.
When I cast Animate Dead, any undead that exceed my control limit are still created, but are uncontrolled. However, I have the Command Undead spell, which is ideal for controlling single powerful undead.
So, with Anglon to cast Desecrate for me, I can create up to 20 HD of undead with a single casting (more than enough to raise the spider) and then conrol it with Command Undead (which it auto-fails because it is mindless).
As long as I recast Command Undead every 5 days, the spider is mine.
So I can have my Necrocake and eat it too.
Grey; you can buy scrolls of animate dead during the year. There are a number of corpses. Do you want a unit of skeleton archers, or an undead spider?I can actually do both. :)
I have 3 different sources of Undead control. (See the bottom of my sheet)
Think of them as "buckets" full of hit dice.
When I cast Animate Dead, any undead that exceed my control limit are still created, but are uncontrolled. However, I have the Command Undead spell, which is ideal for controlling single powerful undead.
So, with Anglon to cast Desecrate for me, I can create up to 20 HD of undead with a single casting (more than enough to raise the spider) and then conrol it with Command Undead (which it auto-fails because it is mindless).
As long as I recast Command Undead every 5 days, the spider is mine.
So I can have my Necrocake and eat it too.
As we all have these pools it wouldn't be a terrible idea if we utilized the other rune lords pools also. Naturally Grey would have the biggest and best, but if the other rune lords used scrolls we could have hordes of skeletal archers. Have the Kobolds keep them supplied (making and carrying to archer posts) with arrows and we could pepper the enemy encampment for months. I haven't done the math, but we could probably surround the place.
Well, everyone has the Command Undead spell pool and the Animate Dead command pool. I think I'm the only one with a Channel Energy pool (basically gives me an additional 10 hit dice of command)
But yes, that's definitely doable. Every rune lord could have their own undead unit.
However, for simplicity's sake (and so the GM doesn't decide to kill us all out of spite) it might be a good idea to order them to "Obey the Master In Grey as if he were me." or something like that.
Then I can lump them all into a single cohesive force rather than try to handle 7 different units that each take orders from a different person.
Doing it that way would also let me undertake some impressive public works projects. That much untiring labor could do some impressing things.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Considering I have a year to do this, I think I've figured out the most economical way-
I craft a Wand of Animate Dead (not hard. Even with the increased DC from not being able to cast the spell the difficulty is only a 15. I have a +16 to spell craft. I can't actually fail.)
Variable Material Component Cost spells are weird with Wands, but I have a work-around.
I use Blood Money to turn the material component cost into damage. I can effectively make the wand able to completely ignore the material component cost, no matter how big the Undead being raised are.
The largest undead that could possibly be created with a single casting of Animate Dead is 80 Hit Dice (20th level caster in a Desecrated area). That would normally cost 2,800 gp in components. With blood money, that money turns into 6 points of strength damage, 50 times during the creation of the item, or a total of 300 strength damage.
That means 2 or 3 castings of Lesser Restoration from Anglon, every day, for two months.
So, for 5,125 gp we have a Wand that everyone in the group can use to animate the maximum number of hit dice possible for their level, at no cost to themselves.
Yay for socialist necromancy!
So, by my calculations, if everyone used the wand, we'd have a total rune lord undead pool of 178 Hit Dice (24 hit dice from each of us, and an extra 10 from Grey's channel pool)
If we took Grey's undead out for "specialty minions" that leaves us with 144 Hit Dice of basic minions.
I think the best bang for our buck would be to make seventy-two 3HD skeletons. Each of you would be raising/controlling 12 of them.
That makes them level-apropriate minions, but gives us enough numbers to do some awesome stuff with them, both in combat, and in terms of construction.
And we'd still have 43 charges left on the wand.
Thoughts?
Prohibited school of necromancy is my only concern.
Otherwise, I'm all for it.
@Grey: Blood Money can't be used for components for a magic item, and component costs have to be paid when the item is created. Wands are spell trigger items and I believe were FAQ'd that the +5 DC for a missing requirement did not apply to the spell in the wand.
Anglon pointed out he can create Animate Dead items - scrolls? which the other runelords could then use UMD to use.
Scrolls of Animate Dead could be purchased.
A unit of undead skeletal archers would be my preference; still okay to do manual labour, but we don't need to worry about position. You would need bows, arrows and possibly armour for them.
You have a LOT of kobold corpses, and if you scour the surrounding area and asks the Kobolds to do same could probably find up to a hundred human corpses in a skeletal state.
@Simon: Cool. You know what - let's try it. If this turns out to be some crazy exploit then I reserve the right to go "Hell No", but I do like the flavour and it seems relatively balanced.
I have craft wand and animated dead, but again, I have no idea how that variable cost works when crafting a wand.
I have craft wand and animated dead, but again, I have no idea how that variable cost works when crafting a wand.
It doesn't. Its totally borked.
@Grey: Blood Money can't be used for components for a magic item, and component costs have to be paid when the item is created. Wands are spell trigger items and I believe were FAQ'd that the +5 DC for a missing requirement did not apply to the spell in the wand.
You can make that ruling, but as mentioned, the rules for making wands of any spell with a variable component cost don't work. The crafting rules don't even address the saturation.
Also, I'm not sure why Blood Money wouldn't work. Is that supported in the rules somewhere, or is that just a GM call?
The reason I'm a fan of wands over scrolls is because they are cheaper, but it doesn't really matter how the spell is cast. The rest of the math still stands.
In fact, in terms of Blood Money, it *would* work with a scroll. :)
Well, everyone has the Command Undead spell pool and the Animate Dead command pool. I think I'm the only one with a Channel Energy pool (basically gives me an additional 10 hit dice of command)
But yes, that's definitely doable. Every rune lord could have their own undead unit.
However, for simplicity's sake (and so the GM doesn't decide to kill us all out of spite) it might be a good idea to order them to "Obey the Master In Grey as if he were me." or something like that.
Then I can lump them all into a single cohesive force rather than try to handle 7 different units that each take orders from a different person.
Doing it that way would also let me undertake some impressive public works projects. That much untiring labor could do some impressing things.
I'd be fine with that. Cuts down on book keeping for the rest of us too. :-)
@Grey: Blood Money can't be used for components for a magic item, and component costs have to be paid when the item is created. Wands are spell trigger items and I believe were FAQ'd that the +5 DC for a missing requirement did not apply to the spell in the wand.You can make that ruling, but as mentioned, the rules for making wands of any spell with a variable component cost don't work. The crafting rules don't even address the saturation.
Also, I'm not sure why Blood Money wouldn't work. Is that supported in the rules somewhere, or is that just a GM call?
The reason I'm a fan of wands over scrolls is because they are cheaper, but it doesn't really matter how the spell is cast. The rest of the math still stands.
In fact, in terms of Blood Money, it *would* work with a scroll. :)
The only thing required to craft an item is the item creation feat, gold, and time. Everything else is variable.
Dm can always alter that, but that's RAW.
I'm not 100% sure about RAW and Blood money. However, it stands to reason that it would work. Though it's VERY grey (pun intended) area.
Eventually we'll have to be magic jarring anthropomorphic elephants so we can use blood money and cast wishes without paying the material cost. :-) It's a thing.
Edit: Nearly forgot my main point. Magic items with variable components have to be decided at creation time and can't be changed. So if you make a permanency scroll for example you have to imbue it with the diamond dust when you create it.
Edit: Nearly forgot my main point. Magic items with variable components have to be decided at creation time and can't be changed. So if you make a permanency scroll for example you have to imbue it with the diamond dust when you create it.
Yes, but with Animate Dead, you wouldn't ever know how much Onyx you'd need. It's not like Hit Dice are an actual think in the game world. The character doesn't ever know how much onyx is going to be needed until the spell is actually cast. It's also impossible to use more than you need, and it's impossible to gauge ahead of time.
So what happens if you try to use the wand on a creature with too many hit dice? Does it just not work? Does it raise the creature at a lower hit dice value?
What if you use the wand on something with less hit dice than the pre-paid cost is designed to raise? Does it not work? Does it get raised as a more powerful undead than it's supposed to be? Does all the extra cash that went into the casting just vanish an a puff of unfairness? Does the risen corpse fountain out the excess onyx like a piñata?
Its a question that has never been answered anywhere I've ever been able to find.
Since it's not answered in RAW then like anything else it's a GM call presumably. If we're going for archers then kobold skeletons would actually be better :p +1 to hit, ac and CMD and the drop in die size is insignificant (average one less damage I believe).
The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. A material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not.
This is scrolls, wands are about the same.
Material component must be there when you start scribing. This means that a scroll of animate dead "contains" a certain number of onyx/HD of undead. Usual assumption for this is that CL is minimum, and so I presume HD would be the same but custom amounts would be possible.Wand would be the same; each charge would have an amount of material component in it.
You cannot create magic items with blood money.
Therefore you can't use blood money to get undead from a wand/scroll.
So what happens if you try to use the wand on a creature with too many hit dice? Does it just not work? Does it raise the creature at a lower hit dice value?
Given animate dead is all about size determining HD, you could probably specify it in mass; "raises 200-250 lbs of zombie"
Guess I didn't read Blood Money carefully enough.
This is going to get expensive.
Guess I didn't read Blood Money carefully enough.
This is going to get expensive.
Until you/we can actually cast the spell. Yea. At least make them bloody so they regenerate. Saves money in the long run.
Not sure that is as true of bloody as you think, but go for it.
Not sure that is as true of bloody as you think, but go for it.
They're not indestructible. They just have very specific criteria for being destroyed permanently.
Not sure that is as true of bloody as you think, but go for it.They're not indestructible. They just have very specific criteria for being destroyed permanently.
I'm a big fan of the Bloody template. It's a serious cost saver. I'm surprised I forgot about it.
So, here's the final cost analysis.
A scroll of Animate Dead, plus the cost of the material components for raising a full compliment of Hit Dice, is 1027.5 GP.
That gets each of us 24 Hit Dice worth of undead to play with.
Taking into account the Bloody template which counts for double the HD (very smart, thanks Simon), that means each of us actually only have 12 hit dice worth of Bloody Skeletons.
If we're going to do Archers, then I think we should go with six 2HD minions each and bundle them together as a unit of 36 archers (like Harakani mentioned earlier. That will be a pretty serious volley)
The total cost for this, for all 6 of the rest of you to get a scroll and cast the spell, is 6,165 GP.
Anyone not want in on this?
Any other discussion points?
Im all for it.
Can I cast off the scroll, since necro is an opposed school?
Absolutely. In fact, scrolls and wands are a handy way of working around an opposition school restriction.
Opposition schools don't mean you can't cast spells from those schools, just that it takes 2 slots to memorize spells from those schools (which basically mean you'll never do it).
BBS only count as double for animation, not for control.
Even better. Unfortunately, that will double our cost because we'll need two scrolls each to get a full compliment, rather than just one.
Even better. Unfortunately, that will double our cost because we'll need two scrolls each to get a full compliment, rather than just one.
Still worth it. I'll give up my magic staff if it's necessary with cost. Undead archers are more bang for buck.
We going to use the kobold skeletons for the bonuses from small? I think it's worth the trade-off.
During slow days I'm going to make and freely give away small stones with a continual flame spell on them. Thanks to my feat False focus I can make them at only the cost of a spell slot. They are otherwise mundane stones. I can make 3-5 per day on off days.
I'm going to spread them within the city far and wide. Making as many as I can and giving them away freely.
"For each citizen to have their own touch of magic from Simon the Kind. "
Here's the secret though. Each stone has a small likeness of my face on it, nearly hidden by the flame and knobby surface of the stone. They're difficult to see, but if you know to look and with a little concentration you can see it. Even if the secret gets out I think most people won't care or assume it has something to do with the fact that I made them. I intend to use their innocuous nature to use them as the focus for Enter Image.
For I am the rune lord with permission to know everything. :-)
I'll use this knowledge to alter the guard of anything noteworthy and only deal with things myself as needed.
Fantastic idea Simon!
carved rocks are going to be a bit difficult (read expensive) to get.
Molded or cast items could be cheap as chips.
Given you run a kingdom you can mint coins 'for free' with the right metals. Might I suggest coins? They often bear a head, and copper pennies are cheap and easily available.
On the other hand, you lot probably have some clever way of mass producing stones with Simon's features, right?
Fantastic idea Simon!
carved rocks are going to be a bit difficult (read expensive) to get.Molded or cast items could be cheap as chips.
Given you run a kingdom you can mint coins 'for free' with the right metals. Might I suggest coins? They often bear a head, and copper pennies are cheap and easily available.
On the other hand, you lot probably have some clever way of mass producing stones with Simon's features, right?
Coins are good, though only the cheapest metals. I want things people will actually use for light here and there. I don't want it to be thing that they hide away in drawers.
If I'm going to mass produce something i'll need fabricate.
Commemorative medallions? Like the squished pennies you make at museums?
Or cheap cameos/miniature busts?
Cameos can be made from clay very easily...make a few steel/iron stamps/molds and they will prolifetate quite nicely.
Then it can become a societal status symbol to have a glowing "Runelord Simon" medal, blessed by the Runelord himself.
Kinda like St. Christopher medallions nowadays.
Commemorative medallions? Like the squished pennies you make at museums?
Or cheap cameos/miniature busts?
Cameos can be made from clay very easily...make a few steel/iron stamps/molds and they will prolifetate quite nicely.
Then it can become a societal status symbol to have a glowing "Runelord Simon" medal, blessed by the Runelord himself.
Kinda like St. Christopher medallions nowadays.
Something like that. Whatever's most efficient. :-)