I am a little uncomfortable with the comment about rolling in discussion and stating you think we are trying to cheat. I hope in this case it was clear that I was only trying to illustrate the impact of Disadvantage.
Also, perhaps I should ask about fatigue and exhaustion levels as I am not familiar with them in 5e.
They are horrible, quite the drain with multiple levels. Healing does not return them. A long rest only recovers one.
Level 1: disadvantage on ability checks
Level 2: speed halved
Level 3: disadvantage on attacks and saves
Level 4: HP maximum halved
Level 5: speed reduced to 0
Level 6: death
I am a little uncomfortable with the comment about rolling in discussion and stating you think we are trying to cheat. I hope in this case it was clear that I was only trying to illustrate the impact of Disadvantage.
I think what GMF is trying to get at is there isn't a point in rolling in the discussion thread, you either make the decision and roll in game or not at all. ie. rolling in the discussion thread would give you an idea that you probably wouldn't succeed anyway so you could make the decision to not try and track through the night with the results.
In this case your character choose to continue to track anyway so it was moot but I can see where both of you are coming from.
OK, let's not put words into the GM's mouth.
@Lichen: I've had you in my games for years. If I thought you were a cheater, I wouldn't have invited you into this one. I just don't want a precedent to be set for rolling in the discussion thread.
In general, the limitations of the PbP format allow for abuses, since you can preview your dice rolls. If I see odd dice rolls, I assume there is some attempt to game the system. If this was an in person game, I would not be cool with 'practice' skill attempts at the table either.
Other than RP, there are two things that a PC can do, they can declare an action, or ask the GM a question. If you are doing something, then you are welcome to roll ahead, if you think you know the appropriate skill check. If you make a roll, then the action happened.
Perhaps I read it more strongly than it was intended. I had hoped to provide a way for all of us to stay together. But our sense of duty for some of us outweighed likely common sense so we are split. And since we had not yet gotten to know each other there was little reason for the 4 that stayed to come with the three that went. The only real connection was Cole and Lichen and it was not strong enough to change Cole's mind.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No worries.
This is mostly a case of pragmatism vs idealism. I think that most would agree that trying to track the goblins at night in the rain was a bad idea, but it was the moral one. I always appreciate it when a player picks the sub-optimal choice because it is true to character.
Wow, lots happened, and might I just say that if I could I would award all of you Inspiration for the way you dealt with the problem of splitting the party...and the DM double for his role. Too often on these boards such conflict breaks down into name calling and hard feelings (and usually someone quitting). I commend everyone on their ability to play the game and their characters !!
K folks, while I super appreciate peoples attempts to keep things moving forward, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Away team, lets deal with the camp you just found first. Farm team, you can head out once 8 hours have passed. I don't want to run the two teams at two different points of time.
@Cole: You post is fine, I'll use those roles once I'm ready. Also, as you can just track the other party members you can use your advantage.
@Lichen: If Erlmander isn't helping you, your survival rolls are at a disadvantage. Also, see below.
@All RE:Skill rolls: For the sake of convenience and to add verisimilitude, if someone makes a skill check, let's just assume that if someone else is present and proficient, they will aid you. I don't want situations where everyone takes turns rolling until some one gets a good result. If someone searches a room, everyone is just helping them, or as is the case with the tracking currently, Lichen is tracking and Erlmander is assisting.
@GM: I like that rule...that is kinda why I asked about needing to roll.
Sounds good. I'll refrain from posting in game until the camp section is settled and we are dealing with anything in the barn team.
Ditto - I'll also hold off until the hunters finish play poo-sticks, and the barn team catch up to them ;)
@All RE:Skill rolls: For the sake of convenience and to add verisimilitude, if someone makes a skill check, let's just assume that if someone else is present and proficient, they will aid you. I don't want situations where everyone takes turns rolling until some one gets a good result. If someone searches a room, everyone is just helping them, or as is the case with the tracking currently, Lichen is tracking and Erlmander is assisting.
Interesting. In a Pathfinder game this ruling would put the players at a disadvantage because the statistics say you have a much better chance rolling twice than one time at +2 for all but very hard skill checks. But in 5e, getting advantage means you do roll twice, so it sorta amounts to the same thing. Even better really, as both rolls will typically be at the higher bonus.
Discussion points about 5E...
At out multiple tables we've found the 5E assisting mechanic to be a lifesaver, and really pushing the team to work together. By making it more powerful, it becomes a viable option to actually use your action to assist the more accomplished player. Great RP'ing when the criminal background player has to hold this crowbar just here as the rogue disarms the trap. It really comes into play when you've got disadvantage, as you can remove that penalty die, and bring things back to a normal skill check. As we've played, finding ways to offset disadvantage has really stretched us into considering more options.
Don't let the level of fatigue sway your decisions to push on when tired. Being tired is part of being an adventurer, and while disadvantage is a big hurdle, by being clever you can find ways to offset and disadvantage and push on. We've found that better than any version to date of D&D 5E really pushes the players towards teamwork. And even if you've got 10-disadvantages stacking up, one advantage pushes you back to a normal role... so as we play we'll learn to think outside our characters roles, and learn to validate the other characters abilities.
NOTE: This is not a criticism of any play here, just some observations from hundreds of hours of playing 5E. Just my 2-coppers worth.
Sounds good. Do keep in mind that some of us are using your game to learn the 5e rules. That might not stack up well with your gritty "decisions have consequences" approach to this game. lol.
Death is a powerful teacher.
Just to clarify folks, I'm not trying to screw anyone over here. I know where the goblins are, I know why they took the girl, I know why there is that camp that half the party is currently exploring and why it is full of traps. All the PC's know is that the goblins had a 7 hour head start on the party and can move faster than the PCs because they aren't tracking anyone.
From my hundreds of hours of 5e play, fatigue as a consequence of a PCs actions when combined with a common sense approach of a PC familiar with the futility of tracking in such conditions makes the decision an easy one that I, personally, will continue to make. Being a good player goes beyond simply blindly playing your PC. Knowledge of game mechanics should always influence your decisions. Balancing the two within reason is what makes a good player, in my opinion.
Good discussion everyone. I'm also not terribly familiar with all the rules but happy with all of them being applied. I think from a players perspective knowing that our actions will have consequences from a rule set perspective is great but knowing the rules shouldn't really affect our characters choice.
In the case of tracking these gobbers I think we all acted as our characters would. Our seasoned tracker knew it would be futile, those without the skills relied on those that had them. Our goodhearted nature walker pressed on and and the other morally obligated characters accompanied.
TLDR: It's good were experiencing this early to get used to the campaign instead of dying for a dumb reason at a higher level.
Death is a powerful teacher.
Just to clarify folks, I'm not trying to screw anyone over here. I know where the goblins are, I know why they took the girl, I know why there is that camp that half the party is currently exploring and why it is full of traps. All the PC's know is that the goblins had a 7 hour head start on the party and can move faster than the PCs because they aren't tracking anyone.
Like the quote - might use that (in game lol).
Clearly the devil is in the detail is also applicable. Echoing Zask as a newbie to 5E (and heartily impressed thus far) this discussion on the rules and their application is very useful.
The opinions and experience of the more experienced 5E players are valued, moreso as I know you're damn good role-players to boot.
Think Lichen also touched on something useful. The decisions have consequences might well have grave repercussions, but with this group the 5E vets are likely to chime in and discuss what those consequences might be. Us rookies (as we've done) should use this OOC thread as a sounding board and classroom of sorts lol.
I wouldn't say having disadvantage on ability rolls due to failing a CON save is a "Grave Consequence", it's more of an inconvenience.
In this particular instance, I wouldn't say there is a right or wrong choice. There was a tactically sound choice (which makes sense for Cole to advocate for, due to his background) and a morally sound choice (which our Paladin advocated for nicely). In both cases there are consequences, tracking at night in the rain when you're tired is harder to do, vs giving the goblins another 8 hours with the girl. If there are no consequence to a choice, then there is no point in offering a choice to begin with.
I think people did a fine job making their choices based on how they want to play their characters.
Lastly, as mentioned by others, the level of 5e system mastery varies from player to player. (I wouldn't claim mastery myself.) If you are not sure of something, ask for clarification.
@Lichen, Erlmander and Daryl: Just so I'm clear, you're just going to continue on directly towards the voices ahead? I just want to double check before I put you in a situation you didn't intend to be in.
No. Lichen has stopped and is listening to try to count the voices. Maybe he can even pick up something from their tone?
Definitely not a frontal approach. Try to find somewhere to hide and gather more information. Perhaps someone more sneaky than Daryl, could try to find out what's happening here? If the girl appears, and is in imminent danger then we have to attack. Otherwise we wait for reinforcements, then confront.
Sounds good. Lichen is at half speed and disadvantage at pretty much everything including stealth.
Erlmander can try to get closer, but he is also exhausted now and does not have a great stealth (+2 I think) Do you want him to try??
Figured as much, but I just wanted to double check.
@All: Everyone is a veteran PbP player here, but I just wanted to drop in a little reminder about the art of the push and the hook. (If you have no idea what I'm talking about check out Painlord's guide) Ideally, we'll get to a point where I don't have to prompt you for action.
Sorry, but have not been able to get onto the boards for the last few days...not sure what is going on!
Funny enough I can load the boards from my phone but not from my home PC... Enjoying following along the chase while our group catches up!
Funny enough I can load the boards from my phone but not from my home PC... Enjoying following along the chase while our group catches up!
That is bizarre... any who, it's up now, so onward and upwards. Also...
Great. Now that I have your attention, just a quick FYI that I will be on vacation From June 17th until the 24th. I have little expectation of having internet access and as such, don’t anticipate being able to post during that time. Things may change, but just be aware that there will probably be no posts from me next week.
Yeah loads of folks were only able to access the boards via their phones...
Sure someone is a WAY more tech savvy than my caveman self will be able to explain.
Goodnews is the boards seem to be up for a moment - so I'm off to post hooks and see what bites ;)
Is our forward team attacking or making camp to wait for the rest? Not sure if we want to leave the decision in the hands of the merciless GM... He may decide the goblins notice you! Element of surprise is always good.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have plenty of mercy.
The goblins on the other hand will probably show you just as much mercy as you will to them.
Waiting with baited breath for one of you lot at the goblin lair to shout "Bree Yark!" ;)
Terrible experience with the boards recently. Catching up now. Also, I'll be gone the same time Fanguar will be.
Posted spell attack in combat - if I'm missing something as we hit "action" can you 5E vets keep me right :)
I am about to be on another trip. This time I'll be gone from tonight until Sunday June 25 and will not eve have cell signal so I cannot check in. Please bot me as needed.
Have fun on the vacay, GMF!!!
Enjoy the trip chief.
If we haven't already, while waiting, it looks like time for a short rest.
HD spent
If we haven't or no time, I'll just stay a couple of HP's down.
If we haven't already, while waiting, it looks like time for a short rest.
1d8 HD spent
If we haven't or no time, I'll just stay a couple of HP's down.
Yup, plenty of time for a short rest.
I've taken it upon myself to do a (very) basic Loot sheet for use.
If anyone has a burning desire to be quartermaster then feel free to run with the role and any resources you have.
Otherwise I'll happily chip away with an olde school list - tracking what we've got and whose claimed each. I tend not to use fancy spreadsheets and go with a journal style approach to these things (which also fits into Vhaezil's role as a scribe).
My own mindset is that of "if someone wants it or can use it, then claim it". Get the impression that 5E/this game is magic item lite, so coin could be precious. However we can discuss and I'm happy to run with the majority consensus.
Here's the link regardless - everyone should have editorial rights if they wish to claim/add something (swapping out gear etc):
Thanks! Can we get this put on the Campaign Info tab?
I think it's a bit ironic that the group that stayed back at the barn stayed only for the mechanical advantage of not being fatigued, yet don't want to stay back for another two hours for the other groups mechanical advantage.... but I'll go with the flow.
My actions were after the necessary rest, whether it be 1 or 2 hours. I was not sure if the first arrivers needed a long rest, or not. I am more than happy to apply my actions at the end of their long rest.
The group stayed back because the ranger suggested tracking in the rain and mud was futile. I am just posting as my character would act and suggesting a course of action; no character had a convincing argument to sit still for another 2 hours so it seemed like the consensus was go act.
I did leave my responses open ended looking for a reason not to move in on them as well.
But my post clearly stated about waiting for the sun to be in their eyes, drawing them out etc... so I believe my reasoning was at least as sound as the other. Somehow we tracked them through the mud and rain... so apparently it wasn't futile.
The circumstances are different now. We didn't know who had the girl, if we could catch them, where they were going, how long they were going etc. Now we know where they are, and they don't seem to be moving.
Both are sound reasoning.
BTW... I'm not upset or anything. Sometime Pbp can make things seem taken in a different manner. We're just learning to play as a group of characters, and players.
Ok, so does that mean Zask and I are attacking the four out front now?
Hi all. I am back and catching up. Looking forward to seeing what happened here. Before I left I tried to offer a way for the two groups to get together again by letting Lichen hear the ongoing combat but I never saw a response. I guess it might have been too far away even for his amazing hearing.
And if anyone likes the idea of a week of canoeing I can highly recommend the Boundary Waters.
@Cole: Will depend how far we are from the lair entrance? I'd visualised a sneak assault by you guys heralded my a volley of missile fire/ranged spells... but if we're not close enough then we'll all be playing sneak up (most likely badly).
Again it's early days and we're finding our feet as a party. Tactical acumen will come :)
The group stayed back because the ranger suggested tracking in the rain and mud was futile. I am just posting as my character would act and suggesting a course of action; no character had a convincing argument to sit still for another 2 hours so it seemed like the consensus was go act.
I did leave my responses open ended looking for a reason not to move in on them as well.
The druid, who is as good a tracker or better than the Ranger said is was not futile, and in fact tracked the enemy to their lair. Had he had the ranger's help it might have been faster.
I am not trying to start an argument here but do disagree with your assessment that we should act now and why you think that. People with you are exhausted. They need rest to be at their best. Heck they need rest to even function in my opinion.
So Lichen will basically sit this one out if you choose to go forward. We are obviously not yet a party and I am going to stop trying to force us to be one.