Hey folks,
I am fine with a bit of friction in game between characters, but I am not fond of seeing tension between players. You are all good at role-playing in character, but it is because you are all so passionate about this game and your characters that it has come to this. I hope to create a wonderful fun time for everyone, but this situation has led to a strong confrontation that I am not clear how to resolve. This is where I have trouble just sitting back and watching.
Now, today I am leaving for the weekend to help my mom move out of her house. I am not clear if I will be able to post at all, but let's just take the weekend off and give this game a rest while I try to figure how to help this situation.
DMHW - Congrats on you mom selling her house. It is a great place - a lot of memories gaming there and in Groveton as well.
|
yeah, 'gratz DMHW. while it's sad to close a chapter in one's life, it's also exciting to start a new one.
Edvard, RP question for you. There are times when I as a player don't like/fully agree with what my character does. I'm curious about something. Do you, as a player, think that Edvard is correct in his assumptions re: the lich and how to deal with him?
I almost think we should bury the phylactery in the ground somewhere and go in without it. Then we give him the fake one and say: "We'll tell you where the real phylactery is when we're gone" by animal messenger or something. He would have to agree to fight the horde when he recovers it(or at least return to dormancy as a second option) and we would then be able to walk out without fear of repercussion because he would always have the option to stick with the horde and hunt us down if we lied. What do you all think?
Plus we have the bargaining vantage that the horde has no real reason to give him back the phylactery even if they do succeed. If they do succeed, they will be much more powerful than he is, so... we're his only way out of indentured servitude. How's that plan sound?
|
|
that is along the lines of what I was thinking. The insistance of carrying it with us was always the hole in the plan, IMHO--we have no way of letting him have it and not be in his presence when we do.
with us carrying it, once he knows we're carrying it, we're vulnerable. THAT'S why we don't tell him we have it until the deal is struck, assuming he can be trusted.
Just as a note. Liches are not indestructible. Unlike liches in the old days of AD&D, in PF they are killable and really all a lich is is a powerful mage (or in this case druid) who has the lich template. No, they are not easy and not something you really want to fight, but as long as he is not more than 5-6 levels above us, he is killable, especially with some positive die rolls by our friendly smiting paladin.
The simple fact is that the lich will know we have the phylactery, or at least know were it was as we have a duplicate. If we do not have the real one, he will kill us, if he can, and then add the humans, dwarfs, halflings, gnomes and half-elves to his list of hated creatures along with the hobgoblins and dragons. He will not know whether we have the phylactery still or if it is in the possession of the horde and will, thus, continue on his current path until shown another is more beneficial.
We take the phylactery with us, but go in fully prepared for a battle with the darkest of undead. If we are lucky, then we get him to either withdraw his support entirely and then go back to being a hermit lich, or even better turn his rage against the horde before reverting to hermitdom. If he does not like this, then we try to take him out. Remember, he was a druid and not a wizard, so the spells he should know will be different than we are used to.
Alright. Is there any way we can bind him to his word? A sweet spel or something? Probably not....
|
|
Two things above I disagree with rather strongly.
The simple fact is that the lich will know we have the phylactery, or at least know were it was as we have a duplicate. If we do not have the real one, he will kill us...
If he thinks we know where the real one is, he can't afford to kill us. He'll need us to get it.
I don't think the ghostlord is a thinking and reasoning creature - I do treat him more like a vengeful awakened spirit - ala The Ring, or any other Japanese horror movie.
I see no reason to make this assumption, and every reason not to. The horde was able to coerce him into assistance using his phylactery as leverage. If he's smart enough to do what the Hand says because they have the phylactery, and if he's subject to coersion, he's clearly a thinking, reasoning being. Were he simply a vengeful spirit without reason as you suggest, he'd have cleaned their clock regardless of whether they had his soul hidey thingy. This, I think, is where the root of the contention between Ed and Bofus is--the basic assumption of the type of foe we're dealing with.
THIS is why we can't let him know we have it on our person, but he has to know we know where it is--which is why we need to give him a duplicate first, as proof. Without that leverage, he'll strike, and I don't really want that!
As for Thordak's personality, it is basically mine... with a few (minor) embellishments and Dwarven character spices.
I have to agree with Bofus and Tirion here. Maybe I just don't get the Japanese horror-culture, but I don't see why this thing can't be coerced or dealt with as it already has been.
As for having it on our person, I'm not so sure. That's why I wanted to bury it in the yard and tell him where it was later, using the fake one as proof we found and took it away from the horde.
However, I am not entirely sold on the idea that we give him a fake one, then bargain, then give him the real one. I would be pissed off by that and I don't fancy pissing this guy off.
I say we either bury it in the yard, or offer it up as a token of goodwill. Or, if we figure out how to destroy it in there, and we think we can take the lich, we take him. However, it would be exceedingly nice if we could get him to take revenge on the horde.....
|
|
I'm sorry to see you go, sir. (BTW--are you Kenta in Zyren's game?) I think you are a very skilled player, but I must admit that I find the Edvard character quite difficult to get along with. I may have been overly harsh at times, but I felt I was playing Bofus accuratley--he's very friendly as long as it's even partially responded to in kind, but he's intolerant of many of the character traits I interpreted coming from Edvard (openly stating an unwillingness to be friends; the ultimatum thing). Bofus is also not one to back down if he's certain he's right and the party's safety is at stake. To the extent that I exacerbated conflict, you have my apologies.
I hope there are no hard feelings on your side, as there are none on mine. We shall definitely miss Edvard's capabilities in combat, that's for sure. And I look forward to continued gaming with as good a player as you have proven to be.
|
|
However, I am not entirely sold on the idea that we give him a fake one, then bargain, then give him the real one. I would be pissed off by that and I don't fancy pissing this guy off.I say we either bury it in the yard, or offer it up as a token of goodwill. Or, if we figure out how to destroy it in there, and we think we can take the lich, we take him. However, it would be exceedingly nice if we could get him to take revenge on the horde.....
I fully agree that he should not be pissed off. However, I can't think of another way to prove to him that we've seen his real trinket, except to show him a forgery--making sure we present it as such and NOT misrepresent it as the real deal. If, say, we handed him one of the boxes with both the Hand's note and a fake p in it, that should immediately focus his ire on them (hopefully).
Keep in mind, though, he will know immediately it's a fake--jsut as he'll know immediately the real one is there once it's out of the box. I just hope the box will protect it until that point. So trying to lie would be foolish anyway.
Now that we have it in our possession, I would argue against leaving it unguarded anywhere. If we do that, we won't know that it wasn't stolen by someone, or retrieved by the lich's minions, while we bargain. We need to be confident in its whereabouts so that we're not lying--because he could very well have divination magic in place to detect lies!
Mark - Sorry to see you go. I liked your character. He definitely had his ways and goals. He might not have meshed with the party perfectly in the long run, but I thought that it was a great character for the purpose of fighting the horde and protecting the Vale, particularly the Witchwood from which he originated.
Regarding the lich - We go in and show him the note. JUST the note. Then we tell him that the note was with a certain amulet and show him one of the mock-ups to show we know what it looks like. Finally, we give him an offer bound with a paladin's oath. We shall return the phylactery to him once the undead support is withdrawn from the horde. We can temper it a little and tell him that he can have his soul now if he agrees to have the undead turn and harass and attack the horde itself. Which would give him two benefits. Having his soul back immediately, and getting revenge on those who stole the phylactery in the first place.
Then there is the other alternative. We know where his soul is and if he decides to attack us and does not succeed, all we have to do is destroy the phylactery and that is the end of him.
Mark,
I am very sad to see you go! :-( You have been a terrific player, a great role player and have given a great deal to our campaign. I see that Edvard has had some difficulty fitting in, but I love the passion with which you play and the attention to detail you put into your posts. Let me know if you are ever interested in creating a different character to join the campaign.
DMHW
|
|
I can confirm that there are no hard feelings player wise - and I am indeed Kenta Gushiken.
Ha! awesome. I admit that Bofus doesn't like Edvard very much, but I gotta tell ya, Vaughn really thinks highly of Kenta so far. :-) Hopefully we can move that campaign along a little more--it doesn't move at the pace of this one, sometimes to my chagrin, but it's great to have you over there.
|
|
Regarding the lich - We go in and show him the note. JUST the note. Then we tell him that the note was with a certain amulet and show him one of the mock-ups to show we know what it looks like. Finally, we give him an offer bound with a paladin's oath. We shall return the phylactery to him once the undead support is withdrawn from the horde. We can temper it a little and tell him that he can have his soul now if he agrees to have the undead turn and harass and attack the horde itself. Which would give him two benefits. Having his soul back immediately, and getting revenge on those who stole the phylactery in the first place.
LOL!! This is my plan/idea pretty much to the letter, with a possible differnce in timing nuances. That was the greatest part of my reasoning for making the fakes (there are others).
Then there is the other alternative. We know where his soul is and if he decides to attack us and does not succeed, all we have to do is destroy the phylactery and that is the end of him.
true enough--but the "and does not succeed" is potentially a big *if*. But, if he knows WE know where his p is, he won't attack us--at least not with intent to kill. I'm really not that worried about that--what I am worried about is the time between him knowing we're there, and us proving we know where his p is. That is our most vulnerable time.
DMHW - Congrats on you mom selling her house. It is a great place - a lot of memories gaming there and in Groveton as well.
It was sad to walk through the near empty house last night for the last time. However it is also a relief for my mom to let go of such a huge place. Well, at least we have the great memories! Time for the next chapter and to make some new memories!
Yep - it was definitely a huge house. I remember walking through there looking for you guys, going through the whole house and then leaving assuming nobody was home only to discover later that you all were in some room I did not check.
Would a Oracle of Flame who is a devotee of Apsu the Waybringer be an acceptable choice for a replacement to Edvard?
The character would fill the same rough role as Edvard did - that of aerial blaster with healing support on the side.
Blackened Curse and Peri-Blooded Aasimar from Blood of Angels if permitted.
I like Tirion's latest idea. Let's do it.
Would a Oracle of Flame who is a devotee of Apsu the Waybringer be an acceptable choice for a replacement to Edvard?
The character would fill the same rough role as Edvard did - that of aerial blaster with healing support on the side.
Blackened Curse and Peri-Blooded Aasimar from Blood of Angels if permitted.
It is an interesting concept. Will have to wait and see what DMHW says. We get a blaster and healer which is important at this point. I will get some more blasting spells next level most likely, but having more than one never hurts.
EDIT - For those who do not know, Apsu is in effect the PF version of Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon, deity of the good dragons. Not a lot of human followers, but that is the fun of being a player character, you can be one of those few who have decided to devote themselves to a lesser known deity such as Apsu. It would also give a better tie in with wishing to fight against Tiamat and the evil dragons, something that was lacking to an extent for Edvard once we had left his home of the Witchwood.
The Peri-Blooded Emberkin is very interesting.
Peri-Blooded (Emberkin)
Masters of fire magic, emberkin feel the dual pull of their peri forebear as well as that of a fallen angel further down their ancestry, and wrestle with their urges to do both good and evil.
Ancestry Peri
Typical Alignment Ng
Ability Modifiers +2 Int, +2 Cha
Alternate Skill Modifiers Knowledge (planes), Spellcraft
Alternate Spell-Like Ability Emberkin gain pyrotechnics as a spell-like ability.
Emberkin Race Traits: Burnished Skin, Pyromancer
Emberkin reveal their divine heritage through their skill with fire-based magic and their desire to repent for others’ sins. Many emberkin suffer from frequent nightmares and strange impulses to commit spontaneous acts of evil. They typically have igneous features such as wispy auburn hair and bright yellow eyes, and a rare few are born with albino skin. emberkin often feel an insatiable need to continually perform acts of good. Some are content to perform small acts of kindness at home, though they may feel driven to travel regularly in order to find pockets of true evil that they can eradicate. Emberkin can often be found in tumultuous regions such as Cheliax, Galt, and the Shackles, where they combat injustice in its myriad forms.
Like all aasimars, emberkin are not necessarily compelled to embrace good and justice. Perhaps more so than most of their celestial kith, emberkin have a propensity to revolt against their benevolent predisposition and instead follow a darker path. Perhaps these emberkin are evil by nature, or perhaps it is a remnant of their fallen angel ancestry. Either way, such wicked individuals are often dangerous, and are both pitied and hunted down by their aasimar brethren.
This would be the profile that I would rebuild for the Flame Oracle - a Peri-Blooded Gnome by the name of Ephvhailordrinkbitzle Falkonvilland.
The tie to Apsu is indeed to make it very straightforward as to his motives - the Hand is using evil dragons, therefore Vhailor must oppose. Plus I like using the smaller and lesser known deities as you get to shape them a little more whichever way you want to.
He would be personable, though distracted by shinys and the potential for a few pranks here and there, and ultimately a good personality.
Previous build guidelines were 25pt buy and 9,000gp for building at 6th level... would Vhailor get a tad more gold?
Flame Oracle with the blackened curse means no melee for him, but with supercharged burning hands and fireballs raining down from the sky he should still find ways to be useful :P
Lol - of course we have not yet fought any red dragons, the fire might not be quite as useful against them. Might want to consider getting a Rod of Elemental Spell (cold, acid or electricity) or something similar.
Vhailor, build your gnome with a 7th level build.
Yeah! Congratulations to Tirion for snagging the 8000th post! Congratulations everyone for helping make this such a fine campaign. I hope you are all still enjoying yourselves.
Here are the current standings:
Tirion 8000th post on February 12th, 2013
Tirion 7000th post on October 14th, 2012
DMHW 6000th post on June 9th, 2012
Bofus 5000th post on February 22nd, 2012
Bofus 4000th post on December 8th, 2012
Mantooth 3000th post on October 3rd, 2011
Bofus 2000th post on July 8th, 2011
Bofus 1000th post on May 13th, 2011
Yikes, I have to snag the next two to catch up with Bofus.
I am on a field trip skiing today. I know its a tough job, but somebody has to do it. I will see if I can post this afternoon when I get home. Have a great day, folks!
I have not forgotten little Vhailor... and continue to work upon him. I'll have him battle ready before the end of my day.
Dang . . . You are creating a new character, creating a new campaign, excavating your way through 50+ apps for the new campaign and dealing with your prisoner getting assassinated all in one day. And I am not even in your other 25 campaigns.
Ok, I guess assassinated is a bit overstating his position. Knocked off might be more appropriate.
Oh Vhailor's already created up in my head - just need to express him on paper.
I am sorry, but I have another ski day today. This time with my bros and our German exchange student from high school. I think Cannon is going to be cold today. I will update tonight.
Bah, Cannon is rarely cold. I do remember skiing there at -35 with 65mph winds. Now that was cold. Wind chill was in the toasty -85 range as I recall.
An idea for Vhailor's intro: Maybe in a prison cell of the Ghostlord?
I figured he would come running out of the woods with his pants on fire yelling curses about some crazed witch shooting lighting bolts at him.
Apologies for slipping schedule yet again... I blame an underestimation of applicants follows by overwhelming levels of response to my Reign of Winter recruitment. Lots of reading required.
I am most honestly pressing to get him finished ASAP.
Don't look at me, I only added 4-5 pages to your RoW reading. It was fun to put the application together though.
Well folks, this Sunday I am leaving for Washington, D.C. for a family vacation. I will not have my lap top, but I will bring along my ipod. However, even so, I will not have nearly the time to post that I normally do. I am also not sure how good the hotel connection will be. I will be returning next Saturday so things will return to normal after that. Thanks for everyone's patience. Hopefully we will have Vhailor up and running as well!
Post if you can. Otherwise, have fun in DC.
I will certainly have fun in DC. We are planning lunch with Bernie Sanders on Monday and breakfast with the Obamas on Tuesday. I wonder if I should wear a tie.
Well, as I said, I will post if I can, but I will not have access to Map Tools and will not be able to publish an updated battlemat. So, we may need to use our imagination. Good thing there are only three Lions left.
I saw Bernie Sanders speak once. Wish we had more politicians like him. Tell him he is by far my favorite senator at this point.
Aaand despite best efforts to the contrary I haven't been able to polish off Vhailor into a finished character yet. Although there have been some distrations to give partial explanation... I'm not entirely sure why he's not gelling together in my head.
I'm going to take a step back and let the little grey cells ponder themselves to see what comes out of them... and then run it through a filter to make sure that I keep the darker stuff out (I'll save that to unleash on unsuspecting PCs :P)
Aaand despite best efforts to the contrary I haven't been able to polish off Vhailor into a finished character yet. Although there have been some distrations to give partial explanation... I'm not entirely sure why he's not gelling together in my head.
I'm going to take a step back and let the little grey cells ponder themselves to see what comes out of them... and then run it through a filter to make sure that I keep the darker stuff out (I'll save that to unleash on unsuspecting PCs :P)
Tirion is suddenly glad that he did not make it into the ice campaign. And, concerned about a ship full of land bound pirates from the lower planes.