DM Fang Dragon’s Ruins of Adventure (Inactive)

Game Master FangDragon

The Adventures of the Watchers of Dawn. Year of the Lion, 1340 DR.

Regional Map 1 | Regional map 2 | Map of Phlan | Dramatis personae | Loot Log


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Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

I always enjoyed poking around stores in games like Baldurs Gate. People usually skip them in PbbP although it can add to the verisimilitude. I'd only suggest we do this for high value items if at all.

Let's take a quick vote, should we RP high value purchases?


Human Male Cleric 8 | HP 72/72 | AC 24 T 12 FF 23 | F +9 R +7 W +13 (+15 vs emotion effects) | CMB +8 CMD 20 | Init +1 | Perc +15
Skills:
Diplomacy +13, Heal +16, Perception +15, Sense Motive +18, Kn History +11, Perform (Sing) +10

I say no.


CG Human Arcanist 9 | Status: RETIRED
Stats:
AC 14 (T 13, FF 12) | CMB +3, CMD 15 | Init +3 | Speed 30ft | F +6, R +7, W +8 (No Fear)| Perc +9, SM +0 Darkvison
HP 78/78 | Reservoir 10/11 | MP 8/9 | Spells 1 5/6 | Spells 2 5/6 | Spells 3 6/6 | Spells 4 5/5| ToR 5/5 | BoH 1/1 | Vest 1/1 | Admx 5/5

In pbp, these things are usually skipped because gameplay is slow enough compared to rl games, though I'm up to whatever we decide. RPing it has advantages also.


Map | Loot CG Female Half-Elf Sound Striker / Faith Singer Bard 9 / Mythic Trickster Tier 2 | HP 16/73 | AC 23 / T 18 / FF 18 | Fort +7 / Ref +13 / Will +11 | CMB +7 / CMD +20| Initiative +7 | Perception +19 | Bardic Performance 13/27 | Low-light Vision | Other skills: Bluff +16 | Diplomacy +16 | All Knowledge Skills +9 | Disable Device +14 | Sense Motive +13 | Spellcraft +12 | Stealth +17 | Spells 1L 5/6 2L 3/5 3L 3/4 | Mythic Power 2/7 (Mythic Surge die 1d8)

I don't think we should role play it unless there is some real return on investment that we could get... like if we are smooth enough we could get a discount (or bad enough trigger an encounter that leads to some clue), or something like that. If the DM doesn't have a character prepared, and the price is set and there is no future relationship/influence to be gained, then I say skip it.

I agree it could be fun to talk to a quirky magic-shop owner at the end of each adventure, and slowly gain his trust and friendship (or discover his secrets, or whatever), and I love doing that kind of thing in real life or video game RP... seeing what the guy has, hearing the story behind it, slowly saving up to get all of the quirky and cool stuff available..., but also double-plus agree that play-by-post is slow enough, and a very different context, where you lose people really easily, so we should probably skip anything that could bog down the game.


Male ( Constant DeathWatch) Spells Active: Gold Elf Oathbound Paladin 6/ Sentinel 3/ Champion 2 Init +1 Hp 110/72 AC 29/13/28 Fort +14 Ref+9 Will+11 Perception+14

I have found PbP slow already, so I would vote no (F2F yes).


Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

Seems unanimous, we'll skip it.


Human Male Cleric 8 | HP 72/72 | AC 24 T 12 FF 23 | F +9 R +7 W +13 (+15 vs emotion effects) | CMB +8 CMD 20 | Init +1 | Perc +15
Skills:
Diplomacy +13, Heal +16, Perception +15, Sense Motive +18, Kn History +11, Perform (Sing) +10

I went ahead and moved everyone and drew an arrow pointing where it seems we're going.


Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images

Apologies for the late post. Been rather busy and gosh, the magus isn't exactly a phone-friendly class for pbp games :o so many rules and modifiers! I think I did ze math correctly tho.


CG Human Arcanist 9 | Status: RETIRED
Stats:
AC 14 (T 13, FF 12) | CMB +3, CMD 15 | Init +3 | Speed 30ft | F +6, R +7, W +8 (No Fear)| Perc +9, SM +0 Darkvison
HP 78/78 | Reservoir 10/11 | MP 8/9 | Spells 1 5/6 | Spells 2 5/6 | Spells 3 6/6 | Spells 4 5/5| ToR 5/5 | BoH 1/1 | Vest 1/1 | Admx 5/5

I didn't bother to draw the full 15' cone of Colour Spray because, honestly, I never thought Ser would move there. The plan was that he moved where Kardas is now (hence the "move left" shout).

So no, I won't be casting it. Assume I did something else like scratch my nose or whatever.

Edit: I just read that you rolled the saves already. Oh well... Not going to rewind, then, that would be a complete mess. I'm sorry about it, Ser, that wasn't my intention, really. Had it been up to me, I wouldn't friendly-fired you.

Edit 2: Remember that, if the targets have 3 or 4 HD, they are blinded as well this round.


Male ( Constant DeathWatch) Spells Active: Gold Elf Oathbound Paladin 6/ Sentinel 3/ Champion 2 Init +1 Hp 110/72 AC 29/13/28 Fort +14 Ref+9 Will+11 Perception+14

Nope. It's my fault. But 2 down so we shall take it.


Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images

It happens. Luckily, the dice gods looked favorably upon me and we might get through this relatively unscathed.

*prays* ;)


Human Male Cleric 8 | HP 72/72 | AC 24 T 12 FF 23 | F +9 R +7 W +13 (+15 vs emotion effects) | CMB +8 CMD 20 | Init +1 | Perc +15
Skills:
Diplomacy +13, Heal +16, Perception +15, Sense Motive +18, Kn History +11, Perform (Sing) +10

My apologies...we had decided on door K, I believe, but the DM gave a description and opened up the map for door M, so I just went with it. There really was no logic for K beyond random chance, I thought.

I tried to arrange everyone so that Ishta could blast something in the doorway without catching anybody in the party, but an attacker would still have to deal with the frontliners to get to her.


Map | Loot CG Female Half-Elf Sound Striker / Faith Singer Bard 9 / Mythic Trickster Tier 2 | HP 16/73 | AC 23 / T 18 / FF 18 | Fort +7 / Ref +13 / Will +11 | CMB +7 / CMD +20| Initiative +7 | Perception +19 | Bardic Performance 13/27 | Low-light Vision | Other skills: Bluff +16 | Diplomacy +16 | All Knowledge Skills +9 | Disable Device +14 | Sense Motive +13 | Spellcraft +12 | Stealth +17 | Spells 1L 5/6 2L 3/5 3L 3/4 | Mythic Power 2/7 (Mythic Surge die 1d8)

No need to apologize. I just didn't get what was going on, but now I do. Thanks for catching me up. I apologize for not realizing.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Human Male Cleric 8 | HP 72/72 | AC 24 T 12 FF 23 | F +9 R +7 W +13 (+15 vs emotion effects) | CMB +8 CMD 20 | Init +1 | Perc +15
Skills:
Diplomacy +13, Heal +16, Perception +15, Sense Motive +18, Kn History +11, Perform (Sing) +10

:) Funny how telepathy doesn't work over the internet.


Male ( Constant DeathWatch) Spells Active: Gold Elf Oathbound Paladin 6/ Sentinel 3/ Champion 2 Init +1 Hp 110/72 AC 29/13/28 Fort +14 Ref+9 Will+11 Perception+14

I was blinded and stunned so both doors look the same to me...lol.


Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

Uff I'm making too many mistakes it seems. It wasn't so bad before Christmas but of late I'm usually very tired by the time the kids have got to bed which has a negative consequence on this. Sorry about that maybe we should stop? These kind of mistakes are frustrating for all.

If you want to continue, the door I opened is the one the invisible bard went through. I sorta assumed you were giving chase. If not, of course you may go through the other door.

Btw it really would help if folks where to draw arrows showing where they intend to go.


Male ( Constant DeathWatch) Spells Active: Gold Elf Oathbound Paladin 6/ Sentinel 3/ Champion 2 Init +1 Hp 110/72 AC 29/13/28 Fort +14 Ref+9 Will+11 Perception+14

@DM Fang Dragon

You are doing a fantastic job. This isnt easy to do. I would love to continue (as this is the only PbP game of 8 that folks post almost daily).


Human Male Cleric 8 | HP 72/72 | AC 24 T 12 FF 23 | F +9 R +7 W +13 (+15 vs emotion effects) | CMB +8 CMD 20 | Init +1 | Perc +15
Skills:
Diplomacy +13, Heal +16, Perception +15, Sense Motive +18, Kn History +11, Perform (Sing) +10

Mistakes happen. You’re doing a good job overall. I’m happy to continue. In a setting like this where there’s usually no immediate feedback I think some flexibility and adaptability is warranted.


Map | Loot CG Female Half-Elf Sound Striker / Faith Singer Bard 9 / Mythic Trickster Tier 2 | HP 16/73 | AC 23 / T 18 / FF 18 | Fort +7 / Ref +13 / Will +11 | CMB +7 / CMD +20| Initiative +7 | Perception +19 | Bardic Performance 13/27 | Low-light Vision | Other skills: Bluff +16 | Diplomacy +16 | All Knowledge Skills +9 | Disable Device +14 | Sense Motive +13 | Spellcraft +12 | Stealth +17 | Spells 1L 5/6 2L 3/5 3L 3/4 | Mythic Power 2/7 (Mythic Surge die 1d8)

Totally sorry for sounding mean if it came across that way. I was only confused. Really sorry, and definitely don't want the game to end.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
CG Human Arcanist 9 | Status: RETIRED
Stats:
AC 14 (T 13, FF 12) | CMB +3, CMD 15 | Init +3 | Speed 30ft | F +6, R +7, W +8 (No Fear)| Perc +9, SM +0 Darkvison
HP 78/78 | Reservoir 10/11 | MP 8/9 | Spells 1 5/6 | Spells 2 5/6 | Spells 3 6/6 | Spells 4 5/5| ToR 5/5 | BoH 1/1 | Vest 1/1 | Admx 5/5

Hey! I love this game! All of us have made mistakes at some point, it's unavoidable dice we're human (at least I'm human, though I wonder what my bonus feat is...)


Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images

> I found an image of a fox and cropped it. Didn't tinker with making the background transparent tho!


Human Male Cleric 8 | HP 72/72 | AC 24 T 12 FF 23 | F +9 R +7 W +13 (+15 vs emotion effects) | CMB +8 CMD 20 | Init +1 | Perc +15
Skills:
Diplomacy +13, Heal +16, Perception +15, Sense Motive +18, Kn History +11, Perform (Sing) +10

I guess maybe we should vote on where to go next? Down the hall, door K, other?


Map | Loot CG Female Half-Elf Sound Striker / Faith Singer Bard 9 / Mythic Trickster Tier 2 | HP 16/73 | AC 23 / T 18 / FF 18 | Fort +7 / Ref +13 / Will +11 | CMB +7 / CMD +20| Initiative +7 | Perception +19 | Bardic Performance 13/27 | Low-light Vision | Other skills: Bluff +16 | Diplomacy +16 | All Knowledge Skills +9 | Disable Device +14 | Sense Motive +13 | Spellcraft +12 | Stealth +17 | Spells 1L 5/6 2L 3/5 3L 3/4 | Mythic Power 2/7 (Mythic Surge die 1d8)

I'm all for finishing what we started, but I am open to other options... just not sure what this means:

Kardas wrote:
I do think we bought ourselves some valuable time by defeating those two ladies.

Valuable time to do what? What are you suggesting?


Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images

To not rush headlong into nasty situations, like trapped corridors :D my apologies if my posting is slow today and the next couple of days, but my mother got hospitalized and I'm a bit all over the place as a result. Don't worry, it isn't anything life-threatening, but it did give us all a big scare yesterday.


Human Male Cleric 8 | HP 72/72 | AC 24 T 12 FF 23 | F +9 R +7 W +13 (+15 vs emotion effects) | CMB +8 CMD 20 | Init +1 | Perc +15
Skills:
Diplomacy +13, Heal +16, Perception +15, Sense Motive +18, Kn History +11, Perform (Sing) +10

Sorry to hear that, Kardas, but am relieved to know the situation's stable.

Let's just go to door K, then.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
CG Human Arcanist 9 | Status: RETIRED
Stats:
AC 14 (T 13, FF 12) | CMB +3, CMD 15 | Init +3 | Speed 30ft | F +6, R +7, W +8 (No Fear)| Perc +9, SM +0 Darkvison
HP 78/78 | Reservoir 10/11 | MP 8/9 | Spells 1 5/6 | Spells 2 5/6 | Spells 3 6/6 | Spells 4 5/5| ToR 5/5 | BoH 1/1 | Vest 1/1 | Admx 5/5

We've defeated 4 in total. How many people were we told was here? 17 or so?

Also, we take door K, for Kardas :p

Edit: which makes me think... Azarra and Zane makes A-Z. Was that intentional? ;)


Male ( Constant DeathWatch) Spells Active: Gold Elf Oathbound Paladin 6/ Sentinel 3/ Champion 2 Init +1 Hp 110/72 AC 29/13/28 Fort +14 Ref+9 Will+11 Perception+14

We really need a trapper...lol. Funny thing is that's my usual build.


CG Human Arcanist 9 | Status: RETIRED
Stats:
AC 14 (T 13, FF 12) | CMB +3, CMD 15 | Init +3 | Speed 30ft | F +6, R +7, W +8 (No Fear)| Perc +9, SM +0 Darkvison
HP 78/78 | Reservoir 10/11 | MP 8/9 | Spells 1 5/6 | Spells 2 5/6 | Spells 3 6/6 | Spells 4 5/5| ToR 5/5 | BoH 1/1 | Vest 1/1 | Admx 5/5

I guess you skipped me this turn because I had already posted what I would do (in which case I should find the Enlarge Person among Kardas' buffs), right?


Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images

Enlarge Person has a casting time of 1 round! ;)


Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

Yes it does although that probably won't make an appreciable difference this round.


CG Human Arcanist 9 | Status: RETIRED
Stats:
AC 14 (T 13, FF 12) | CMB +3, CMD 15 | Init +3 | Speed 30ft | F +6, R +7, W +8 (No Fear)| Perc +9, SM +0 Darkvison
HP 78/78 | Reservoir 10/11 | MP 8/9 | Spells 1 5/6 | Spells 2 5/6 | Spells 3 6/6 | Spells 4 5/5| ToR 5/5 | BoH 1/1 | Vest 1/1 | Admx 5/5

Ok, apparently I stopped reading after "Takes a full-round action".


Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images

The flu hit me really really hard. I might not post tomorrow as a result, so you know.


Human Male Cleric 8 | HP 72/72 | AC 24 T 12 FF 23 | F +9 R +7 W +13 (+15 vs emotion effects) | CMB +8 CMD 20 | Init +1 | Perc +15
Skills:
Diplomacy +13, Heal +16, Perception +15, Sense Motive +18, Kn History +11, Perform (Sing) +10

Sorry to hear that...the flu sucks. Just got a couple of my young ones over it, and it was hard times.


Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

Thanks for letting us know. There's a lot of stuff going round atm :(


Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images

Thank you all. I had avoided the first epidemic, but this one hit me out of nowhere. Apparently, it caught me right in the jaw as well because it knocked me flat on my behind.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
CG Human Arcanist 9 | Status: RETIRED
Stats:
AC 14 (T 13, FF 12) | CMB +3, CMD 15 | Init +3 | Speed 30ft | F +6, R +7, W +8 (No Fear)| Perc +9, SM +0 Darkvison
HP 78/78 | Reservoir 10/11 | MP 8/9 | Spells 1 5/6 | Spells 2 5/6 | Spells 3 6/6 | Spells 4 5/5| ToR 5/5 | BoH 1/1 | Vest 1/1 | Admx 5/5

Man, I do love this campaign :D


Male ( Constant DeathWatch) Spells Active: Gold Elf Oathbound Paladin 6/ Sentinel 3/ Champion 2 Init +1 Hp 110/72 AC 29/13/28 Fort +14 Ref+9 Will+11 Perception+14

I also am enjoying this game. It has allowed me to play a pc outside my comfort zone. It's still difficult, but he is getting easier.


Male ( Constant DeathWatch) Spells Active: Gold Elf Oathbound Paladin 6/ Sentinel 3/ Champion 2 Init +1 Hp 110/72 AC 29/13/28 Fort +14 Ref+9 Will+11 Perception+14

Did we finish "K"?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images
Quote:
Man, I do love this campaign :D

It is such a fresh breath of air whilst keeping things truly in the spirit of old-school D&D. Big props to the dm :) and of course, to my fellow players!


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Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

Got a headache tonight, I'll get a post up tomorrow.


Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

Looks like Zane and I posted at the same time. Sorry I missed your heals btw.


Human Male Cleric 8 | HP 72/72 | AC 24 T 12 FF 23 | F +9 R +7 W +13 (+15 vs emotion effects) | CMB +8 CMD 20 | Init +1 | Perc +15
Skills:
Diplomacy +13, Heal +16, Perception +15, Sense Motive +18, Kn History +11, Perform (Sing) +10

You're good! I shoulda been a little quicker on the draw.


Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images

@Ishta & Azarra: the bard's 'inspire courage' ability does add its bonus to attack and damage on ray spells, since rays are counted as weapons. Spells such as Acid Splash, which isn't a ray, merely gets the bonus to attack.

Yeah, don't ask me why, but those are the muddy waters the rules have given us.


Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

Other feats like point blank shot work with ray spells too, but not with battering blast. It's kind of odd.


CG Human Arcanist 9 | Status: RETIRED
Stats:
AC 14 (T 13, FF 12) | CMB +3, CMD 15 | Init +3 | Speed 30ft | F +6, R +7, W +8 (No Fear)| Perc +9, SM +0 Darkvison
HP 78/78 | Reservoir 10/11 | MP 8/9 | Spells 1 5/6 | Spells 2 5/6 | Spells 3 6/6 | Spells 4 5/5| ToR 5/5 | BoH 1/1 | Vest 1/1 | Admx 5/5

Ah, cool. Add 1 extra point of damage, then. I don't think this will turn the tide, though.

I know Ishta's contribution is not much, but this will change soon, I hope.


Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

Things will get easier as you level up, more spells etc...


Male N Human (Raumathar) Magus 9 | HP: 75/75 | AC: 21 (12 Tch, 19 Fl) | CMB: +11, CMD: 22 | F: +12, R: +8, W: +10 | Init: +7 | Perc: +9, SM: +2 | Speed 20ft | Arcane Pool: 4/7 | Spells: 1st 7/7 | 2nd 4/4| 3rds 4/4 Active conditions: 3 mirror images

Whenever I play a wizard I always burn a ton of cash on scrolls. A DC11 Grease spell isn't the scariest thing, but when an enemy fails its save it is majorly screwed. Definitely worth the 12.5gp ;D

but I take it the Arcanist doesn't get that feat for free at 1


CG Human Arcanist 9 | Status: RETIRED
Stats:
AC 14 (T 13, FF 12) | CMB +3, CMD 15 | Init +3 | Speed 30ft | F +6, R +7, W +8 (No Fear)| Perc +9, SM +0 Darkvison
HP 78/78 | Reservoir 10/11 | MP 8/9 | Spells 1 5/6 | Spells 2 5/6 | Spells 3 6/6 | Spells 4 5/5| ToR 5/5 | BoH 1/1 | Vest 1/1 | Admx 5/5

It doesn't. I bought some scrolls, but they're mostly non-combat, where low DCs matter less. Also, I'm trying to save spells for the rest of the bandits and the leaders.

I have to say I usually play divines or martials, so if you guys feel I'm not using my resources appropiately, just tell. After all, Ishta is a gifted arcanist and should do it right (has a much higher Int than an ordinary person like me).


Map | Loot CG Female Half-Elf Sound Striker / Faith Singer Bard 9 / Mythic Trickster Tier 2 | HP 16/73 | AC 23 / T 18 / FF 18 | Fort +7 / Ref +13 / Will +11 | CMB +7 / CMD +20| Initiative +7 | Perception +19 | Bardic Performance 13/27 | Low-light Vision | Other skills: Bluff +16 | Diplomacy +16 | All Knowledge Skills +9 | Disable Device +14 | Sense Motive +13 | Spellcraft +12 | Stealth +17 | Spells 1L 5/6 2L 3/5 3L 3/4 | Mythic Power 2/7 (Mythic Surge die 1d8)

You seem to be doing great to me. Yeah, playing a caster can be frustrating at low levels. People always talk about how the game is so unbalanced in favor of casters, but when your games never get past low levels, it can totally seem like the other way around.


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Palace of Birdsong| Shards of Oberon map | War for the crown maps

Full casters in my experience feel on par with martials somewhere around lvl 5-7 and by level 9 they're ahead.

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