How would a blind and deaf Vlaka "see" things like say stairs? A hole in the ground they are going to fall into? Seems they wouldn't. How would they communicate? I mean they can't hear or see people, only smell and a person who has been deaf their whole life usually has trouble with speaking? If something had no smell to it, wouldn't this Vlaka be effectively totally unable to sense it?
ALSO does a deaf Vlaka who gets the very easily bought hearing aid lose their advantages they gained from being deaf? Otherwise seems a bit powergamey to take a flaw and then cancel it right out but still get the other advantages?
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How would a blind and deaf Vlaka "see" things like say stairs?
An abrupt angling of the scents of people who've passed by, and probably a shift in the way the air moves their own scent around- a stronger concentration for an ascending staircase blocking its spread, and a weaker concentration for a descending staircase opening up more air ahead.
A hole in the ground they are going to fall into? Seems they wouldn't.
It wouldn't smell like the ground there. Their own scent would have more space to diffuse out into. And of course, how do people avoid falling into holes in the dark? By not putting their feet somewhere without feeling first. That, with a lifetime of practice.
How would they communicate? I mean they can't hear or see people, only smell and a person who has been deaf their whole life usually has trouble with speaking?
Vlaka are usually raised in communities that are used to a variety of senses. They can speak, sign, and communicate tactilely just fine. Other Vlaka would normally use tactile communication, and when dealing with people who don't know tactile languages, it's probably easiest for them to communicate via a comm using tactile or haptics output.
If something had no smell to it, wouldn't this Vlaka be effectively totally unable to sense it?
To the same degree that if something is completely black, you can't see it- harder to spot in the dark, but not somehow undetectable. They've got scent as a precise sense, putting it it on par with vision out to 90 feet. That means they can tell where the gaps are too- something blocking the flow of odors without contributing anything of its own.
ALSO does a deaf Vlaka who gets the very easily bought hearing aid lose their advantages they gained from being deaf? Otherwise seems a bit powergamey to take a flaw and then cancel it right out but still get the other advantages?
... The Read Lips skill feat? Nah, I don't think that'd be powergamey. It's unusual for vlakas to do, sure, but if they do, it's not gonna cause an issue.
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How would a blind and deaf Vlaka "see" things like say stairs? A hole in the ground they are going to fall into? Seems they wouldn't. How would they communicate? I mean they can't hear or see people, only smell and a person who has been deaf their whole life usually has trouble with speaking? If something had no smell to it, wouldn't this Vlaka be effectively totally unable to sense it?
ALSO does a deaf Vlaka who gets the very easily bought hearing aid lose their advantages they gained from being deaf? Otherwise seems a bit powergamey to take a flaw and then cancel it right out but still get the other advantages?
In order:
1) They can feel for it. As well as smell that scents are coming from lower than their feet. And the scent of the material the stairs are composed of.2) Via Tactile Signing.
VERSED
You gain the Sign Language skill feat, even if you don’t
meet the feat’s prerequisites. If a language you know
has a tactile version, you also learn the tactile version
of those languages. This means that you know the
spoken, signed, and tactile languages associated with all
languages you know.
And while there is no guarantee that whomever the deafblind Vlaka talks to will know the tactile version, you can easily handwave a translation app for it.
3) You'll need to be more specific on what that "something with no smell" is. Are you talking about a gas? A object? A creature (living, unliving, or otherwise)? Because, scientifically speaking, odorless simply means "undetectable by scent to a healthy human with a functional nose"
4) ...Read Lips is a feat anyone can pick up at level 1 by being trained in Society... and still has plenty of limitations (you have to be able to clearly the people you're reading, you have to know the language being spoken, and if you're reading lips will fighting or under duress, you're fascinated and offguard plus you have to succeed a Society check to actually read them).
Does that actually sound powergamey?
I never said read lips was powergamey. That's your assumption you came up with on the fly. Its not because you would still have to know the language being spoken and what happens if said creature doesn't have lips or their mouth is covered?
I'm not sold on deafblind vlaka being able to "see" things they really would have trouble with detecting. It's getting silly.
Also no one answered about if you're deaf and then get the hearing aid at lvl 1, does that cancel out the advantages you got from being deaf?
Going by Pathfinder 2e, having a missing sense replaced also removes any benefits you got. I suspect the GM Core will have a similar passage. However, that's with regards to a more limited set of benefits available to any ancestry. We'll see if the SF2 GM Core also mentiones things like the vlaka's Sensory Diversity (which might actually be bio-engineered based on the galaxy guide)
Precise senses generally allow you to navigate as well as a human's sight does, subject to the limitations of the sense. For Hearing and Scent, that's the presence of a medium for vibrations/particulates to reach the appropriate organ. So the main issue for blind and deafblind vlaka comes when they're in a Vacuum. We'll see if that's discussed in the GM core, but Mysteries of the Frozen Moon does include a blind vlaka pilot, so perhaps they've developed mechanisms to support such things.
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How would a blind and deaf Vlaka "see" things like say stairs? A hole in the ground they are going to fall into?They have smell precise enough to put a bullet between you eyes.
Walking is not going to trip them up.Stairs:
The would smell the metal, wood, stone or Polymer of the stairs going up in that unique way that only stairs do.
Because they did have to deal with stairs since they were born. Like everyone in every ancestry that doesn't fly.Hole:
They would notice the sudden lack of "ground smell" where the hole is. Maybe pick up the different smell from the walls of the hole.
Or even notice the airflow from the hole, based on how it distorts environmental smells.The main thing is:
It is not supposed to be an issue. So it is not.
I think the main Vlaka potential issue would be when they are in a buttoned up space suite or in a vacuum. But given they are a starfaring species I would almost have to assume any of their space gear has some kind of video to scent translator thing going on so they have smell o vision.
The vlaka are an interesting role playing challenge. A 90 foot precise scent is hard for us to picture. Weird stuff like walk past somebody and realize they are pregnant or have cancer or some other health issue just like it is a plainly visible exterior thing. Your ability to detect differences in chemicals would potentially allow you to get a TON of info about people like what drugs they are doing/how much you can tell who has been with who almost like they had billboards saying yup we are shagging.
They are getting a totally different bank of data but it is as precise as our ability to see it. A lot of things that would be concealed to vision may not be concealed at all. Like some guy hiding behind a bunch is visually concealed but he is also wearing space axe body spray and the vlaka is like DUDE stop shouting at me.
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I never said read lips was powergamey. That's your assumption you came up with on the fly. Its not because you would still have to know the language being spoken and what happens if said creature doesn't have lips or their mouth is covered?
snip
Also no one answered about if you're deaf and then get the hearing aid at lvl 1, does that cancel out the advantages you got from being deaf?
You said that getting the benefits of being deaf while removing deafness would be power-gaming. The benefits of being deaf are the Read Lips feat, and I don't think that would be power-gamey; that was me answering the question. The other benefits come from being blind. If you're talking about a deaf-blind vlaka removing the deaf portion and getting to keep precise scent instead of precise hearing... I don't see that as a big difference? They're still range-limited and losing out on a more common precise vision, and they don't get the benefits of the Read Lips feat.
I'm not sold on deafblind vlaka being able to "see" things they really would have trouble with detecting. It's getting silly.
From a rules standpoint, it's a precise sense. If you're not making sighted characters roll to not walk into clear glass windows or to find a black object when the lights are on, don't do the equivalent for precise scent.
If we were actually being realistic, precise scent would come with a lot of benefits, like being able to tell who had been in the area recently, sensing things around corners, etc. There's some simplification going on in both directions.
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How would a blind and deaf Vlaka "see" things like say stairs? A hole in the ground they are going to fall into? Seems they wouldn't. How would they communicate? I mean they can't hear or see people, only smell and a person who has been deaf their whole life usually has trouble with speaking? If something had no smell to it, wouldn't this Vlaka be effectively totally unable to sense it?
Even ignoring everyone else's great talking points...
a cane. a guide animal. haptic feedback light detecting app. assistive devices already exist for deafblind people now, why would they not exist in Starfinder?
Hell, any telepathy at all telling you "hey there's a hole there" would work.
As for a deaf vlaka taking read lips and using hearing implants: the read lips feat is mostly there to be flavor and doesn't really change mechanics too much. there are no real "benefits" to being deaf in game besides it (the immunity to auditory effects would disappear with hearing implants)
the only real mechanical upside I can see is deciding _when_ to be immune to auditory stuff by removing or turning off the implants which I mean its a cool character thing imo
so tbh I cant see a powergamer picking a deaf vlaka just to get read lips
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I think the main Vlaka potential issue would be when they are in a buttoned up space suite or in a vacuum. But given they are a starfaring species I would almost have to assume any of their space gear has some kind of video to scent translator thing going on so they have smell o vision.How would a blind and deaf Vlaka "see" things like say stairs? A hole in the ground they are going to fall into?They have smell precise enough to put a bullet between you eyes.
Walking is not going to trip them up.Stairs:
The would smell the metal, wood, stone or Polymer of the stairs going up in that unique way that only stairs do.
Because they did have to deal with stairs since they were born. Like everyone in every ancestry that doesn't fly.Hole:
They would notice the sudden lack of "ground smell" where the hole is. Maybe pick up the different smell from the walls of the hole.
Or even notice the airflow from the hole, based on how it distorts environmental smells.The main thing is:
It is not supposed to be an issue. So it is not.Their Society entry covers that. They use everything, but they use scent and touch the heaviest. As it is the common denominator.
Like much of vlaka society, communication is shaped by diverse sensory experiences. Vlakas communicate with multiple senses whenever possible, including scent, and nearly all of them know how to communicate with both kinds of Vlaka sign language—one visual and one tactile—and sign while speaking. Vlaka text is grooved, so it can be read by sight and touch, with modern technological devices also integrating audio descriptions and smells as appropriate alongside their haptic touchscreens.
Yeah that is why I figure Vlaka space suites probably have the smell o vision option so they operate as normal when suited up.
How would a blind and deaf Vlaka "see" things like say stairs? A hole in the ground they are going to fall into?They have smell precise enough to put a bullet between you eyes.
Walking is not going to trip them up.Stairs:
The would smell the metal, wood, stone or Polymer of the stairs going up in that unique way that only stairs do.
Because they did have to deal with stairs since they were born. Like everyone in every ancestry that doesn't fly.Hole:
They would notice the sudden lack of "ground smell" where the hole is. Maybe pick up the different smell from the walls of the hole.
Or even notice the airflow from the hole, based on how it distorts environmental smells.The main thing is:
It is not supposed to be an issue. So it is not.
It is an issue it just wasn't covered enough via the rules to be honest.
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Hey, I dunno what else to tell you. A precise sense is defined as "a sense that can be used to perceive the world in nuanced detail", and average eyesight is the example. If the vlaka in your head is missing major things like stairs and holes in the ground, then according to the rules, the sense of smell you're imagining for them isn't good enough yet.
Don't worry too much about edge cases. Vision has edge cases like "what if something is transparent", "what if somebody has a bag over their head", "what if there isn't a light source", and "what if the thing is around a corner".
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Technically Blinded says:
All normal terrain is difficult terrain to you.But I think we all understand that assumes no other precise sense. Which Vlaka have.
That's the blinded condition specifically, which the rules call out as not being what you use for a character who has been blind for a long time.
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I think there is still some underestimation of what a precise sense of smell would be. Even bloodhounds with as crazy as their sense of smell is would still be imprecise. A vlakas precise sense of smell is comparable to our vision in that range. Giant hole in the ground they "see" it. Something most things would perceive as scentless very well may have distinctive scent to the vlaka. With that level of sense of smell they are a walking chemical analysis device capable of detecting things at a couple parts per million level or even more sensitive.
It is just handwaved as basically smell o vision to 90foot range because the actual capabilities are almost impossible for us to grasp just like trying to tell a blind person what pink looks like but with vlaka they could very well be able to try to describe to you how pink smells to them.
But how would such a vlaka describe things because if they can't see what a person looks like, only smell them that could lead to some problems later on if they are needing to describe a person and they can only say what they smelled like.
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But how would such a vlaka describe things because if they can't see what a person looks like, only smell them that could lead to some problems later on if they are needing to describe a person and they can only say what they smelled like.
The issue is just saying you can just tell what somebody smelled like is a pale description of what a precise scent would be like. It is accurate enough to do aimed fire at precise targets int heir range. It gives them enough info where they can effectively "see" you as clearly as you could see somebody. How big/small/fat/skinny/what their complexion is like do they have acne/blackheads/excess ear wax. Think daredevil but with smell instead of hearing.
The weirdest thing is when a vlaka like this walks into the room it is probably like walking into a movie of everybody/everything that has been through there in the last few hours/days/weeks depending on ventilation.
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But how would such a vlaka describe things because if they can't see what a person looks like, only smell them that could lead to some problems later on if they are needing to describe a person and they can only say what they smelled like.
They would still smell what ancestry the person is, what materials they are wearing, how large the person is, probably some other things like hair/fur length because that has its own smell, along with some other useful details like perhaps what the person ate- not as useful for picking someone out in a crowd by sight, but more useful for running purchase histories at the local diner. They would certainly be able to recognize the person later.
If they know in advance they'll need to relay a description to scent-blind people, they could take a picture with their suit comm.
If there's time afterwards to give a description, they can give it to a sighted vlaka artist, and use scent-based terminology that can then be turned into a black and white sketch. Communicate over the comm, even- the artist doesn't have to be there physically.
Or, an olfactory description might work fine on its own. It certainly would be more useful to other vlaka than a visual description, and they're not the only ancestry with a good sense of smell.
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Scent-blind sighted investigator through a comm unit translation: "Please describe the person you observed near the airlock."
Vision-blind smelling witness, having smelled a barathu: "They were a barathu."
Investigator, knowing roughly what barathu look like: "How big were they?"
Witness, having not smelled anything stronger than usual: "Not much bigger than me, in terms of overall size."
Investigator, writing down "medium size": "And can you tell me what color they were?"
Witness, not knowing what smells map to what colors but knowing some details of what they smelled: "No, but they were pretty old and had a strongly medicinal smell to them."
Investigator, not knowing what knowing what an old vs. young barathu smells like but knowing that older barathu tend to turn more gray, writing down "grayish(?) with manufacturer heritage": "Thank you, that should be enough to get started on."
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Ooh, loved that bit of micro-fiction, Quid! Figuring out how radically different biologies and cultures would use technology and coexist with each other is one of my favorite parts of science fiction.
Something I haven't seen mentioned yet: haptic suits. Smell has poor temporal resolution because it lingers in the air, but touch is immediate. A haptic feedback device could deliver environmental information rapidly, even within vacuum.
For example, let's say a deafblind vlaka is repairing a satellite: their haptic suit could--through vibration location, strength, and pattern--coordinate with suit-mounted cameras and lidar scans to tell them the size, shape, position, and velocity of nearby debris.
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Glad folks like it! Hopefully it's useful inspiration.