Good day everyone!
Just had a player ask what action it was to move Smoked Goggles off his eyes and onto his forehead. He believes, since it's such a small action, that it should be a free action. I disagree, as that would let him have all the benefits but completely avoid the 20% miss chance on his turn by removing them at the beginning and putting them back in place at the end. I ultimately settled on a ruling of "as a free action, but only once per turn and only 'on' or 'off', not both", but I'd like to know if there is anything official or if anyone has had to make a similar ruling. Thanks for your assistance!
"Unless otherwise noted, activating a magic item is a standard action."
It could be argued that Smoked Goggles need to be activated - since it makes no mention of always being on.
Many googles require adjustments to fit them for proper use. The way I see Smoked Googles they like safety googles, not sunglasses. If you just pull them down they are likely to impair your vision even more.
The way I would handle it would handle it is that it takes a free action to remove it, but a move action to properly don the googles. If he hastily dons the googles the googles, he has a 50% chance of gaining the blinded condition.
My method is based on the fact that drawing a weapon is a move action and that the dirty trick maneuver can inflicted the blinded condition.
"Unless otherwise noted, activating a magic item is a standard action."
It could be argued that Smoked Goggles need to be activated - since it makes no mention of always being on.
Smoked Googles are not magic items, they are mundane equipment.
Smoked Googles are not magic items, they are mundane equipment."Unless otherwise noted, activating a magic item is a standard action."
It could be argued that Smoked Goggles need to be activated - since it makes no mention of always being on.
my bad, I saw that they protected from a gaze attack and assumed the must of been a magic item.
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The description says they are spectacles. Mundane ones made of smoked glass.
Safely removing them while fighting or doing any strenuous activity would require more than a free action.
You could remove them with a free action, but then they would be in your hand (occupying it) or on the floor, not in a safe position on your forehead.
The description says they are spectacles. Mundane ones made of smoked glass.
Safely removing them while fighting or doing any strenuous activity would require more than a free action.
You could remove them with a free action, but then they would be in your hand (occupying it) or on the floor, not in a safe position on your forehead.
I was intending to make this point.
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Regardless of how you adjudicate it, it's definitely not a free action.
Your player is wanting to have their cake and eat it too!
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Regardless of how you adjudicate it, it's definitely not a free action.
Your player is wanting to have their cake and eat it too!
I strongly agree, and I'm thinking the flow of the thread does too! The player should not be allowed both the cake and to eat it. I think anything you end up deciding that prevents this within reason is ok.
I would rule it a move action, as well. But, if they want a free action option, I would rule they could remove it as a free action that only results in it dropping to the ground - as in, they accidentally nudged it off of their head completely.
My justification for this, beyond the already mentioned repositioning of equipment in Pathfinder is a move action already, is that I have accidentally nudged goggles off my head in real life with my wrist or cold-numbed hands and/or mitts multiple times and they always end up where I did not intend for them to end up (i.e. around my neck, falling to the ground/in the water, or repositioned in a very inconvenient way, like tilted across my face or the bridge of my nose in such a way as to impede my vision). Accurately repositioning goggles on my forehead IRL is a much more deliberate action requiring fine motor manipulation of my dexterous digits with the best results always yielded by my dominant hand and/or appendage of choice. :)
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Just a question, but arent smoked googles only work if you wear them the whole round?
I always thought that protection from over time DMG/attacks only work if you have the protection for the whole round, not just a part of it.
If you close your eyes the whole time and open it just for your one vital strike attack, you have to make the same save that you would have to make it you never closed your eyes at all.
As I see it, its the same with a ring of fire resistance 30.
If the whole party is in a burning house (4W6 fire DMG each round for this scenario). You are immung to the DMG (max 24 fire DMG) as long as you wear the ring.
If you take it of you take the DMG, even if you just take it off walk around and take it on again.The moment you take the Smoked Googles off and you look at the enemy that has a gaze attack (means you arent closing your eyes or looking at his feet) you have to make the Save.
I just realized that if would be a problem if you already rolled with the +8 bonus, but I always tell my players that to be protected from such attacks they have to be protected for a whole round for it to work.
So that was never the case.Am I wrong with telling them that they have to be protected for the whole round to earn the benefits of the protection from over-time effects?
As a general rule, you are correct.
Some (but few) monsters can only use their gaze actively, i.e. taking an action to aim it, but most gaze attacks have ave a passive state too that force people to take a save as soon as they see the monster eyes.
Gaze (Su)
Source Bestiary 6 pg. 293, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary pg. 300, Bestiary 2 pg. 297, Bestiary 3 pg. 295, Bestiary 4 pg. 294, Bestiary 5 pg. 293This attack takes effect when foes look at the attacking creature’s eyes. The attack can have any sort of effect; charm, death, and petrification are common. The typical range is 30 feet, but check the creature’s entry for details. The type of saving throw for a gaze attack varies, but it is usually a Will or Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the gazing creature’s racial HD + that creature’s Charisma modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s text). A successful saving throw negates the effect. A monster’s gaze attack is described in abbreviated form in its description. Each opponent within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw each round at the beginning of her turn in the initiative order. Only looking directly at a creature with a gaze attack leaves an opponent vulnerable. Opponents can avoid the need to attempt the save by not looking at the creature, in one of two ways.
Averting Eyes: The opponent avoids looking at the creature’s face, instead looking at its body, watching its shadow, tracking it in a reflective surface, etc. Each round, the opponent has a 50% chance to avoid having to attempt a saving throw against the gaze attack. The creature with the gaze attack, however, gains concealment against that opponent.
Wearing a Blindfold: The foe cannot see the creature at all (also possible to achieve by turning one’s back on the creature or shutting one’s eyes). The creature with the gaze attack gains total concealment against the opponent.
A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent’s action and once during the creature’s turn.
Gaze attacks can affect ethereal opponents. A creature is immune to gaze attacks of others of its kind unless otherwise noted. Allies with a gaze attack might be affected. The creature’s allies are considered to be averting their eyes from the creature with the gaze attack, and have a 50% chance to not need to attempt a saving throw against the gaze attack each round. The creature can also veil its eyes, thus negating its gaze ability.
Format: gaze
Location: Special Attacks.
It says " Each opponent within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw each round at the beginning of her turn in the initiative order.", so a player can attempt to argue that his character was protected at the start of the round, made his save with the +8, and so invulnerable for the whole turn even if he removes the goggles.
The "at the beginning of her turn" is a needed mechanic, as we play in rounds and turns, not in a real time seamless sequence of acts, but the player is trying to take advantage of it by claiming that his action to remove and place the googles should be a free action.
Another thing to consider is what happens when the character quickly removes the googles. The googles obviously restrict the amount of light reaching the character. That means his eyes have adjusted to a dimmer light. In real life when that happens, it takes a few seconds for your eyes to adjust to a brighter light. I could see imposing the dazzled or even blinded condition when quickly removing the googles. When you take a move action to remove them you are shielding your eyes and allowing them time to adjust.