What options are there for an unarmored melee character, Other then Monk and Kensai Magus?


Advice


So, This is probably a dumb question... I was just having a random idea earlier... A melee combatant fighting on the frontlines, Wearing no armor, Just their clothes...

And I started wondering what options there are for such a character. There is the obvious Monk/Unchained Monk, And the Kensai Magus... But are there any other classes or archetypes that can work well for a melee combatant that does not wear armor?


There are more options if you allow light armors too. Warrior Poet Samurai looks interesting to me.


Melkiador wrote:
There are more options if you allow light armors too. Warrior Poet Samurai looks interesting to me.

Yeah, I suppose light armor could work too. It can be quite light and manageable.


I quite often run dex based melee types with little or no armor. Once you get the dex high enough, you actually start not wanting the negatives associated with armor. Rogues, Magus, Ninja, etc.


TxSam88 wrote:
I quite often run dex based melee types with little or no armor. Once you get the dex high enough, you actually start not wanting the negatives associated with armor. Rogues, Magus, Ninja, etc.

I do wanna try a unchained rogue sometime... I just worry a lot about finding myself unable to get a flank and thus not doing anything in the combat due to lack of sneak attack... And I dont know if the two weapon fighting to Two Weapon Feint feat line will be good with their lower BAB....


If you are ok with light armor the swashbuckler is the obvious solution. Pick up Fencing Grace ASAP and you don’t need more than a 13 STR for power attack. There are several archetypes for martial classes that basically give other classes swashbuckler like abilities. Virtuous Bravo for paladin, Daring Champion for cavalier, Arcane Duelist and Dervish Dancer for bard, Dandy for Ranger.

Another alternative would be a DEX based brawler. A DEX based slayer would be a good alternative to rouge. An alchemist focusing on his mutagen instead of bombs could also work.

If you want to use an unchained rogue consider focusing on Dirty Trick. It can impose the blinded condition. The feat quick dirty trick will allow you to use a dirty trick in place of one of your attacks. This does not help at low levels, but can make higher levels playable. Taking greater dirty trick will extend the time the target remains blinded. It is pretty feat intensive but can be done.


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In addition to the many choices available if you are OK with light armor (at lower levels), there is also the sacred fist warpriest if you want a character that doesn't use any armor. A synthesist summoner (if allowed) can also pretty much skip wearing actual armor in favor of "wearing" their eidolon.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

If you are ok with light armor the swashbuckler is the obvious solution. Pick up Fencing Grace ASAP and you don’t need more than a 13 STR for power attack. There are several archetypes for martial classes that basically give other classes swashbuckler like abilities. Virtuous Bravo for paladin, Daring Champion for cavalier, Arcane Duelist and Dervish Dancer for bard, Dandy for Ranger.

Another alternative would be a DEX based brawler. A DEX based slayer would be a good alternative to rouge. An alchemist focusing on his mutagen instead of bombs could also work.

If you want to use an unchained rogue consider focusing on Dirty Trick. It can impose the blinded condition. The feat quick dirty trick will allow you to use a dirty trick in place of one of your attacks. This does not help at low levels, but can make higher levels playable. Taking greater dirty trick will extend the time the target remains blinded. It is pretty feat intensive but can be done.

I do like my brawlers... And Slayer would have a BAB advantage over Rogue, Not as much damage though with dex weapons and less sneak attack, But manages more then rogue if they dont get sneak attack... Hmmm...

I did not know of the Dirty Trick line of feats, Could work too! Rogues gert few attacks, But if Two Weapon Fighting works for a Unchained Rogue that would give more attacks for replacing one with a Dirty trick...


Dragonchess Player wrote:
In addition to the many choices available if you are OK with light armor (at lower levels), there is also the sacred fist warpriest if you want a character that doesn't use any armor. A synthesist summoner (if allowed) can also pretty much skip wearing actual armor in favor of "wearing" their eidolon.

Sacred Fist Warpriest? That could work too... They are the monk like Warpriest I belive, Would give nice buffing spells too.


Merellin wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
I quite often run dex based melee types with little or no armor. Once you get the dex high enough, you actually start not wanting the negatives associated with armor. Rogues, Magus, Ninja, etc.
I do wanna try a unchained rogue sometime... I just worry a lot about finding myself unable to get a flank and thus not doing anything in the combat due to lack of sneak attack... And I dont know if the two weapon fighting to Two Weapon Feint feat line will be good with their lower BAB....

there are lots of ways to get sneak without using flanking. You need to definitely try to get a way to use Greater invisibility. with that alone, you attack against flat footed, and get a +2, if you flank, its +4.

look at all of the rogue tricks. there's a couple that you just get sneak attack damage for a round. some that let you use a wall, or an enemy as a flanking partner, and be sure to look at the ninja tricks (invisible blade).


I would not bother with the two-weapon fighting for a rogue. The penalties make it really suboptimal.

If you want to focus on Dirty Trick, there are a couple of things you will want. First is the feat Dirty Fighting, it counts as having DEX 13 INT 13 and combat expertise for meeting the prerequisites for the improved combat maneuvers. It also increases the flanking bonus to +4 if you can make the maneuver without provoking an AoO. Next is the rogue talent Underhanded Trick. It is basically combat swipe except it gives you improved dirty trick instead of improved steal. It also allows you to pick up greater steal without meeting the prerequisites at 6th level. Use the rogue trick combat trick at 6th level to pick this up. Your 3rd level feat will be Agile Maneuvers. At 8th level use the rogue talent bonus feat to pick up Quick Dirty Trick. At 9th level take Greater Dirty Trick to increase the time the target remains blind and to make it take a standard action to remove the condition.

At third level you can perform a dirty trick on your target and blind them for 1 round plus 1 round for every 5 points you succeed by. This means you probably will not blind a marital character for more than one round, but vs other characters you might. At 8th level when you get your second attack you can use your first attack to attempt to blind your target and get your sneak attack on the second. At 9th level when you Blind your opponent it will last for 1d4 rounds plus 1 per 5 point you make the roll by and require a standard action to remove.

The nice thing about this strategy is that you are not only getting your sneak attack you are also helping the rest of the party. While the character is blind, he takes a -2 to AC and loses his DEX bonus to AC. He also has a 50% miss chance on any attacks he makes. This way even if you are not able to do damage you are still contributing to combat. Before 9th level your target can remove the condition with a move action, but even then, you still reduced your targets effectiveness.

The last thing to consider about the unchained rouge is they get weapon finesse and DEX to damage for free. Most martial classes will be using power attack or something similar so your chance to hit is actually on par with a martial as long as you avoid penalties to hit. They will get more attacks than you, and will probably have ways to gain bonuses, but you will not actually be that far behind. DEX to damage really helps when you cannot get sneak attack.

If you are really worried about damage play a half elf and take ancestral arms to get proficiency in elven curve blade. Finesse Training will allow you to get 1.5 DEX to damage and it has a 18-20 crit range. Sneak attack may not be multiplied on a critical hit but DEX (or 1.5 DEX) to damage is.

Shadow Lodge

TxSam88 wrote:
Merellin wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
I quite often run dex based melee types with little or no armor. Once you get the dex high enough, you actually start not wanting the negatives associated with armor. Rogues, Magus, Ninja, etc.
I do wanna try a unchained rogue sometime... I just worry a lot about finding myself unable to get a flank and thus not doing anything in the combat due to lack of sneak attack... And I dont know if the two weapon fighting to Two Weapon Feint feat line will be good with their lower BAB....

there are lots of ways to get sneak without using flanking. You need to definitely try to get a way to use Greater invisibility. with that alone, you attack against flat footed, and get a +2, if you flank, its +4.

look at all of the rogue tricks. there's a couple that you just get sneak attack damage for a round. some that let you use a wall, or an enemy as a flanking partner, and be sure to look at the ninja tricks (invisible blade).

Just keep in mind that the Invisible condition will become less and less reliable as you level up as more and more foes will just be able to ignore it...


As a different way of doing things, my Bloodrager has low AC and instead pumped other defences. I get hit all the time, but I have a bajillion HP, high Damage Reduction, Energy Resistance and I wear a CLOAK OF DISPLACEMENT (MINOR). If you could find a way to reliably get energy resistance then you could do this with an INVULNERABLE RAGER Barbarian and have even more HP and DR. The idea is that I'm easy to hit so enemies keep attacking me instead of my allies, but I just don't care about their attacks. The downside is that it takes a little while for everything to come online (eg. IMPROVED STALWART is definitely a late-game thing), but it's pretty effective.


Two possibilities that have not been mentioned are-

1 Oracle with the Aesthetic Mystery. This turns you into a second rate monk, but one that is a full caster with some powerful Mysteries and eventually unarmed spell strike. Likely a one level dip as a Scaled Fist Unchained Monk.

2 Nature Fang Druid. You give up most of your druid class features to become a [not very] second rate slayer that is a full caster.

Another idea that I didn't see above is a one level dip into swashbuckler for Opportune Parry and Riposte.

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