Exemplar Ikons


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


So let's say you are Main-Class Exemplar and a party member was a Multiclass Exemplar. Which Ikons would you recommend for a purely STR based Exemplar who wants to use a D12 weapon. Then let's also compare to a Barbarian or Fighter also using a D12 weapon.

Base Exemplar
Since Exemplar has no real damage boosts outside of their Ikon you would want a Weapon Ikon, correct?

Barbarian MC Exemplar
IF you were a Barbarian would you rather go for a Weapon Ikon to boost your already high Rage damage or grab the Victor's Wreath for that sweet, sweet prema +1 Statue to attack rolls? Since if you were not the only Melee Martial the Victor's Wreath would be fairly powerful as it gives you and everyone else +1 to attack in a 15ft Emanation.

Fighter MC Exemplar
But if you choose Fighter does the above apply or is the Victor's Wreath too good still? You rather give up 2-8 bonus damage for a +1 to your alreafy monstrous attack bonus?

The problem I have is I find it hard to juggle three ikosn, two I can do with no problem. Since as a Main Class Exemplar I WANT my damage boost and without it I feel like a weaker fighter however I also want to help my party but find myself not dealing the bonus damage crippling but perhaps I need not worry about my damage output if we have some heavy hitters.

Is this a common issue people have at which Ikon to use from their Experience of Playing Exemplar?

Silver Crusade

It's going to depend hugely on what you're trying to accomplish, which in turn will depend to a significant amount on party composition.

So, for example, Victors Wreath is great IF the party has no other reliable source of a status bonus to hit. But in a party with a Marshal or bard it is much less useful.

If you want to just do lots of damage then you're very likely best off going MC Exemplar if your GM is foolish enough to allow it, at least until Paizo comes to their senses and nerfs it (see any of the discussions on how overpowered it is).

The MC Ikon is firmly in the "character defining, build your character around it) class. Which means that different Ikons support wildly different builds.

If you go pure Exemplar, you get to pick one or two for damage and the other one or two to define what your character accomplishes beyond pure damage. Lots of options, choose the ones that fit the role you're taking


One thing I'd ask the GM is that if they think both Spark Trans and Shift Imm share the same cooldown/limit, or if each's 1 p turn limit is independent of the other.
One of the reasons why Exemplar may feel like they neglect their 3rd Ikon is due to the 1 per turn limit of those actions, and some combos w/ important passives may want to do a turn where you both Spark Trans and Shift Immanence.
(Most relevant for Sandals; if 1 Stride is not enough distance, but a passive boosted Stride is enough, you can Shift --> Trans --> blank w/ 0 Action loss while providing allies extra movement)

.

Don't forget that you can choose an Ikon while knowing it'll not get much combat usage. Something like the Horn of Plenty may carry a great affect on paper, but because it's smartly written to be compartmentalized/niche, it may only be used once or 0 times per combat if you have no reason to spend the elixirs.
(though that's likely not an appealing option in a 2-H build to begin with)

.

A key detail of this problem/puzzle is that you can pick a 3rd Ikon who's Trans ability is something you want to do *instead of* a Strike, or when you *cannot* Strike, like the Bands of Imprisonment.
Its Trans ability is Escape + 2x Stride + Strike. That has appeal when you may be Restrained, or when you are a full 2 Strides away from your desired target. In both those circumstances, you *cannot* use your basic weapon Ikon big hit, so there is no opportunity cost conflict with it.
(Sandals is still the best/easiest for this, as melee PCs #1 "I cannot Strike, so I'll ___" action is still Stride, lol)


To answer the questions in order:

  • A base Exemplar will almost certainly want at least one weapon ikon, yes. You could theoretically do a weaponless build and output lots of utility instead via worn and body ikons, but I honestly don't think that's going to be nearly as effective.
  • I'd definitely recommend Victor's Wreath on a MC Barbarian. The ikon itself is absolutely busted (as written, you get to auto-cleanse yourself of most permanent afflictions other nasty persistent effects out of combat), the accuracy boost will multiply your on-hit damage when bonus damage from weapon ikons would stack additively, and more accuracy is just always a good thing to have.
  • In theory, I'd advocate for a MC Fighter to get a weapon ikon, as they could leverage their higher accuracy to make more use of that on-hit damage, but tbh Victor's Wreath is so good here that you're probably still better off picking that too.

    As for juggling ikons, I agree that using transcendence effects puts you in situations where you don't immediately have access to what you want, though that I think is actually quite a good thing, as I think it makes for more dynamic play in practice. Since the class's release, I've tried picking two weapon ikons and transcending between both, but honestly I've found it more effective to try to go with the flow and focus on making the most of what I currently had. There's Shift Immanence for when you really want that other transcendence, and I think that's fine to rely on to begin with, though I suspect a big part of the Exemplar's mastery curve comes from saving actions by planning and improvising transcendences more smoothly.


  • Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
    ElementalofCuteness wrote:

    Base Exemplar

    Since Exemplar has no real damage boosts outside of their Ikon you would want a Weapon Ikon, correct?

    Yes. As it says on page 43: "Typically, you want to ensure at least one of your ikons is a weapon."

    ElementalofCuteness wrote:

    Barbarian MC Exemplar

    IF you were a Barbarian would you rather go for a Weapon Ikon to boost your already high Rage damage or grab the Victor's Wreath for that sweet, sweet prema +1 Statue to attack rolls? Since if you were not the only Melee Martial the Victor's Wreath would be fairly powerful as it gives you and everyone else +1 to attack in a 15ft Emanation.

    Personally, the +1 on attack rolls is nice but should depend on the rest of the party. If you have a bunch of martials that already have good proficiency advancement on their attacks, a barbarian may find the damage resistance from Skin as Hard as Horn more useful (especially if you know what type of damage will be encountered most often for the day).

    ElementalofCuteness wrote:

    Fighter MC Exemplar

    But if you choose Fighter does the above apply or is the Victor's Wreath too good still? You rather give up 2-8 bonus damage for a +1 to your alreafy monstrous attack bonus?

    For a fighter MC exemplar, the character might be better off with something like Thousand League Sandals for the +10 ft bonus to Speed; especially if the fighter is wearing heavy armor. Or possibly a Mirrored Aegis if the fighter will be using a shield ("If the mirrored aegis houses your divine spark for 10 uninterrupted minutes, it is restored to full Hit Points.").

    ElementalofCuteness wrote:

    The problem I have is I find it hard to juggle three ikosn, two I can do with no problem. Since as a Main Class Exemplar I WANT my damage boost and without it I feel like a weaker fighter however I also want to help my party but find myself not dealing the bonus damage crippling but perhaps I need not worry about my damage output if we have some heavy hitters.

    Is this a common issue people have at which Ikon to use from their Experience of Playing Exemplar?

    With an examplar, you should plan on how you will typically cycle between ikons when activating the Transcendence abilities. An exemplar will often switch between a weapon ikon in one round, spark transcendence to switch immanence to an ikon with a passive bonus until their next turn, then spark transcendence back into the weapon the next round. Scar of the Survivor may also be a good choice for a third ikon to self heal occasionally.


    Often, the third ikon for main class exemplar is either going to be situational or something long-lasting. As an example, Mirrored Aegis gives a buff for a minute on Transcend, so you can easily start the fight with Aegis active, transcend it, and then start alternating weapon and something else the rest of the fight.

    Alternatively, something like Scar of the Survivor you may only activate if you expect to take damage, the Horn of Plenty to heal allies/self, etc.


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    Teridax wrote:


  • I'd definitely recommend Victor's Wreath on a MC Barbarian. The ikon itself is absolutely busted (as written, you get to auto-cleanse yourself of most permanent afflictions other nasty persistent effects out of combat),
  • No, the transcendence only affects allies in your aura. It doesn't help you. I also thought this for at least a week after the book released before I caught the "ally" limitation.


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    Teridax you only have to juggle your Icons until 12th level when you take Rapid spark where your spark is always in the icon where you need it.

    The 18th level feat Eternity-Incinerating Blaze says it is an icon how does the interact with having only 3 icons or 4 icons if you have extra icon?


    Elric200 wrote:

    Teridax you only have to juggle your Icons until 12th level when you take Rapid spark where your spark is always in the icon where you need it.

    Rapid Spark is only useable once per day.

    As far as EIB, it's an ikon feat, not an ikon. Ikon feats are imbued into specific ikons (if you have two weapon ikons, you'd have to choose which), and grant them special additional abilities. EIB gives the doomed increases on critical hits, plus instant death if you stack enough doomed on them, and the alternate transcendence option.

    Regarding the one ikon feat per one qualifying ikon, the 20th level Cutting Without Blade feat does remove this - if you had two weapon ikons all of your ikon feats would then apply to both of them, if they otherwise qualify (e.g. melee/ranged restrictions).

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