RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I am looking to run a Tiefling fighter (archetype: Aldori swordlord) / duelist for my next Pathfinder Society character.
Has anyone run a swordlord, or a Rondello duelist, or some other fighting style fighter? How well does it work in Pathfinder Society? Is it worth switching to the Duelist prestige class?
I am considering dropping a level in something like Ninja or Magus, to give him some dirty tricks, ah, versatility, in combat. Does anyone care to offer an opinion?
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Boon from Gencon etc.
I keep trying really hard to like Duelist but I just can't make myself like it.
Hmmm, as far as I can tell the Aldori Dueling Sword doesn't have the disarm keyword and none of the related feats let it be used to disarm making the Disarming Strike a little iffy (unless I'm missing something here)
That said the flavor has potential. I might add in the gladiator archetype and try and make a real show off, but the Tiefling -cha makes that plan a little iffy.
Also a couple levels in Rogue for evasion/skill points/sneak attack can be nice for this sort of character.
If you're not attached to the sword lord archetype its self I think the Lore-Warden archetype from the Field Guide could make a good int fighter duelisty type
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I currently have an Aldori swordlord, and enjoy him, but he's really low level so far. The archetype has a lot to offer IMO. He's not going to be huge damage dealer, but he's going to be somewhat of a melee controller. For mine, I really want the level 11 ability for the archetype, so was going to go straight fighter.
Hmmm, as far as I can tell the Aldori Dueling Sword doesn't have the disarm keyword and none of the related feats let it be used to disarm making the Disarming Strike a little iffy (unless I'm missing something here)
You can use the disarm with any weapon. The disarm quality just adds a bonus of +2 to the attempt. It's the trip maneuver where if the weapon doesn't have the ability you can't use the weapon for the attempt.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Thanks, Pirate Rob, that's helpful.
I am sort of attached to the Aldori swordlord archetype. These are supposed to be the most feared swordsmasters in Golarion, and I'm having trouble designing one that keeps up with a standard barbarian, in terms of DPR, or AC, or hit points, or skill ranks, or just cool tricks in combat. (From my perspective, proficiency in the ADS is something of a feat tax, and requiring Quick Draw is even more of one...)
And turning to the Duelist Prestige Class sounds like it ought to make sense, but it seems to make things harder. For one thing, it requires more non-synergistic pre-requisites.
Lore-warden is indeed a clever duelist type.
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For what its worth, the Lorewarden gives you combat expertise without the prereq of int13 kind of like the ranger bypassing dex requirements. You will still want some int probably, due to other features of that class.
The dusty rose prism when put in a wayfinder gives you a +2 bonus to your cmb and cmd on top of the normal +1 insight bonus to AC.
Thought that was neat in a pathfindery way.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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All right, so I've spent more time looking over the Aldori works:
The Aldori Dueling Mastery feat
The Aldori Swordlord fighter archetype
And, perhaps, the Duelist prestige class.
It all seems sub-optimal. The weapon is probabily worth an exotic proficiency, but only (a) if you're planning to take both the Aldori Dueling Mastery feat and the Duelist PrC, where it's important to have a piercing weapon, or (b) if you're going to be switching between a high-Strength two-handed stance and a high-Dexterity one-handed grip.
The dueling mastery feat requires Quick Draw, which reduces the need for a versatile weapon. It provides for a Shield bonus, which isn't as good as a Dodge bonus, because it doesn't stack with a shield spell.
It also has four prerequisities.Obtaining them all, and Aldori Dueling Mastery itself, and Dodge and Mobility, is a tough squeeze by 6th or 7th level, when a Pathfinder Scieity character would want to enter the Duelist PrC. The Duelist is supposed to be good at disarming, which requires the Combat Expertise and Disarm feats as well.
Let's compare the Aldori Swordlord archetype to the similar "Free hand fighter" archetype.
3rd level:
Aldori Swordlord At 3rd level, when an Aldori swordlord makes a full attack with an Aldori dueling sword, he gains a +1 bonus to AC against melee attacks until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus increases by +1 every four levels after 3rd.
Free-hand Fighter At 3rd level, a free hand fighter gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels after 2nd. This bonus does not apply when wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavier load.
Both of these are bonuses to armor class. But the Aldori Swordlord has to be full attacking, which reduces the advantage of taking Mobility, and the AC bonus only applies to melee attacks. (On the other hand, although "Swordlords prefer wearing light or no armor," they're not actually restricted, and going against their preferences may be their one advantage here...)
5th level:
Aldori Swordlord At 5th level, when an Aldori swordlord successfully disarms an opponent using an Aldori dueling sword, the swordlord also deals normal damage to the target, but without the normal Strength bonus to damage.
Free-hand Fighter At 5th level, a free hand fighter gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when wielding a melee weapon in one hand and leaving his other hand free. This bonus increases by +1 per six levels after 5th.
I'm not sure what "normal damage" includes. Sneak attack bonus dice? Enhancement damage or energy damage from magical weapons? A ranger's favored enemy bonus?
The Swordlord needs to make a successful disarm (the Aldori dueling sword isn't a disarm weapon, and, again, it's unlikely that a character working towards the Aldori Dueling Mastery feat will have Improved Disarm by 5th level). The Free-hand fighter's damage bonus is smaller, but includes an attack bonus and is applicable in a much wider set of circumstances.
There seem to be much better choices for our Brevoy bravo. Maybe the Aldori school has been over-tipping the bards to sing of its great accomplishments.
I would say the line about ´normal damage´ means everything except the excluded STR damage...
About the only things the Aldori Fighter Archetype is good for is having a high AC when you Full Attack (only really impressive when using the Steel Net ability while Fighting Defensively) and it´s 11th level Counterattack ability (which Barbs have a similar version of via Come and Get Me at 12th level). The Full Attack AC bonus should really have ALSO applied to Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action (if Steel Net would not also apply there).
If you want to use the archetype, I would hazard that your best bet is 1 level in Manevuer Master Monk, which lets you get Improved Disarm (along w/ Flurry of Maneuvers) very early without buying Combat Expertise. Take the rest of the levels in pure Aldori Fighter, which means you can get the 11th level ´Counterattack´ ability within the 12th level PFS cap. (you will probably want to cheese out that Quickdraw Pre-Req by having a Pole-Arm to use with Counterattack, which DOESN´T specify using the Aldori sword unlike the other Class Abilities)
But probably many other Classes/Archetypes can over-all have more compelling abilities, while using the Aldori Sword if you want to. I could see the Urban Barbarian being a good option... IF you´re really hooked on Disarm (which only seems to be part of the Aldori Archetype power) the 1-level Maneuver Monk dip may still be the best way there (less Feat Tax, although it means you can´t take 12th level Rage Power Come and Get Me to mimic Aldori Counterattack).
Really, there´s already the Pitfall weapon enhancement (from Taldor) that itself gives an Init bonus, and that would stack with the Aldoria Dueling Mastery Feat w/ the Aldori Sword, but you do really need that much stacking? If you don´t, m-classing with Thunderstriker Fighter Archetype lets you use a Buckler without penalty (like the ADS AC bonus, with more upside) and I think there´s even a Feat that lets you retain the Buckler bonus to AC when using that arm to wield a weapon (2-Handed). With either Thunderstriker (w/ Enhanced Buckler) and/or Urban Barbarian w/ boosted DEX and AC-boosting Rage Powers, there isn´t THAT much AC difference to the Aldori Archetype: you will probably even have a higher AC most of the time (except when Fighting Defensive as a Full-Round Action w/ Steel Net).
In any case... I think if you are comparing ANYTHING to a Barbarian build at this point, you are likely to come up disappointed (esp. if you don´t at least dip in Barbarian).
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Generally speaking, James, that's what I advise most players to do.
In this case, though, I wanted to see about building a member of the Aldori swordpact, the "most feared swordsmen throughout Avistan". And I wanted to do so through the Swordlord alternate class, or the Dueling Master feat. But it seems that the mechanics that have that name attached to them are nothing to write home about, and don't seem to fit together as well as we might think.
So, I'm going to take your advice and build something that sort of looks like an Aldori swordlord, good at one-on-one weapon duels with one hand free, while still able to keep up with more typical combats against monsters and gangs of ranged opponents. I'm going to build in a backstory with a dead mentor, which will justify the character learning combat maneuvers with the Pathfinder Society instead of the Aldoris.
and I wanted to thank Eric for pointing me towards the Crane-style feats from UC. At 5th level, my PC can take a feat that allows him to deflect one weapon melee attack per round, automatically. In a duel, that ought to be decisive.
