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To me, neglecting strength completely means you're missing out on an entire vessel spell....but I'm the kinda person who wants the entire animist experience in one go....But you aren't. At Heightened (2nd) and (5th) you get a battle form instead. So you're missing out on using it at levels 1 and 2? Hardly a game changer IMO.
You can get that water elemental battle form from darkened forest form though (no "free" strike however) and I think the real appeal is getting the non-battle form d8 unarmed attack with reach and grapple with a strike on sustain at rank 5+. So you're still missing out on what I find to be the biggest appeal...
You can get that water elemental battle form from darkened forest form though (no "free" strike however) and I think the real appeal is getting the non-battle form d8 unarmed attack with reach and grapple at rank 5+. So you're still missing out on what I find to be the biggest appeal...To me, neglecting strength completely means you're missing out on an entire vessel spell....but I'm the kinda person who wants the entire animist experience in one go....But you aren't. At Heightened (2nd) and (5th) you get a battle form instead. So you're missing out on using it at levels 1 and 2? Hardly a game changer IMO.
But your complaint was that it "means you're missing out on an entire vessel spell": that isn't the case. As to what you find most attractive, that's a matter of taste, which again wasn't your stated complaint in the quote I originally quoted.
Now there isn't anything wrong with wanting to use the starting abilities of the spell, but is it worth bumping up str JUST for that? You can get a 1d10 reach grapple weapon easily enough, and with ancestry feats too. I'm just not getting the appeal unless you're going all in on str and blowing extra feats and items to buff armor type and unarmed attacks but I'd think you'd be missing out on animist options by doing so: You aren't going to have enough to be good at unarmed and heavy armor and ranged weapons and intelligence skills and.... For me, I'd rather be good at something than middling at multiple things. From my perspective, JUST missing out on the level 1-2 abilities of one apparition and a few feats isn't worth it.
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But your complaint was that it "means you're missing out on an entire vessel spell": that isn't the case. As to what you find most attractive, that's a matter of taste, which again wasn't your stated complaint in the quote I originally quoted.You can get that water elemental battle form from darkened forest form though (no "free" strike however) and I think the real appeal is getting the non-battle form d8 unarmed attack with reach and grapple at rank 5+. So you're still missing out on what I find to be the biggest appeal...To me, neglecting strength completely means you're missing out on an entire vessel spell....but I'm the kinda person who wants the entire animist experience in one go....But you aren't. At Heightened (2nd) and (5th) you get a battle form instead. So you're missing out on using it at levels 1 and 2? Hardly a game changer IMO.
Alright maybe not the ENTIRE vessel spell but enough to warrant not wanting to bother with it. But I'll just say that's a subjective view and leave it at that.
Now there isn't anything wrong with wanting to use the starting abilities of the spell, but is it worth bumping up str JUST for that? You can get a 1d10 reach grapple weapon easily enough, and with ancestry feats too. I'm just not getting the appeal unless you're going all in on str and blowing extra feats and items to buff armor type and unarmed attacks but I'd think you'd be missing out on animist options by doing so: You aren't going to have enough to be good at unarmed and heavy armor and ranged weapons and intelligence skills and.... For me, I'd rather be good at something than middling at multiple things. From my perspective, JUST missing out on the level 1-2 abilities of one apparition and a few feats isn't worth it.
People might see completely ignoring a handful of apparitions as reasonable and expected, but if I have the option of trying everything in one go, I'm reveling in that opportunity. Again, that's just me.
You don't play PFS do you? :-) :-).
PFS parties are built, through Warhorn, Discord or just at the time we all meet around the table. Most players have multiple characters. I happen to have a Barbarian at the same levels than my Animist. I've been in a single game with a really imbalanced party in a couple hundred PFS games.
And while you can't cover all the bases perfectly you CAN cover many bases fairly well.
But why?
You can build an Alchemist who throws Bombs, dive into melee under Bestial Mutagen and shoots poison arrows. Especially if you consider a +1 in your attack stat to be anywhere close to valid. Still, no one does that. I let you think about it.Day to day flexibility is no flexibility. If your Animist is able to switch from healer to gish to blaster in a timely manner, then it is flexible. If you need a long rest then you can just forget about it, you're trying to cover more bases than you can.
Strength is a perfectly valid dump stat on an Animist, you won't miss on anything. You will just not have a gish Animist. But gish Animists also have their pitfalls, as they won't be skill monkeys like Intelligence Animists or casters like Charisma ones. It's just a matter of choice.
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But why?For the most part, it's a hard agree.
Day to day flexibility is no flexibility.
It can be if you are in the right type of game: for instance, if you are in the type of game where you only have 1 encounter/event a day, it's not a hardship to need a day to switch. Another is in a westmarch type game where you have a lot of players that could join a particular game and you'd have the flexibility to bring a loadout that best fills in the gaps. there is some definite value in being able to swap your focus even if it's only at the start of an adventure/quest/scenario.
That said, trying to cover every single base with the animist will just end up being sub-par at everything IMO. Now for some people, I guess that's fine but it's literally a jack of all trades, master of none scenario. Me, I'll be much happier with being great at a focus or 2.
It can be if you are in the right type of game
You can always find a specific environment ;)
If you are in a very specific environment, it will certainly highlight some abilities that would be overlooked otherwise.But I really think day to day flexibility is overrated on these boards and in general. Most of the time, parties don't change or not too much, you don't have a lot of forewarning about what's ahead, etc... The result being that day to day flexibility is not applicable. Environments where day to day flexibility beats specialization (and by specialization I don't mean overspecialization) are the exception.
Really?
I find it to be the exact opposite.
I'm at the very end of Sky King's Tomb (and as such level 10) and I've cast 7 different spells out of my spell slots with my Witch (I'll cast 9 of them at the end of the campaign as I have 2 new spells coming). I adapted my spell list twice (and regretted it once).
We do have information: what we will face (roughly), the environments we will be in, and so on. But this is no actionnable information. What type of information will allow you to know if it's better to be a gish, a healer or a blaster?
If the enemy has a lot of aoe and/or the party in general takes more damage than it can sustain, more healing is better. If the enemy is skirmishing and going for backlines, if there are resistances/high saves, or if there simply isn't enough of a frontline, you switch to a gish. Gish is also nice if you want to reserve spellslots for that final big fight to unload all your high spells into that. If the enemy is lots of smaller threats rather than 1 big one, you switch to a blaster, and etc.
How do you know that during your daily preparations? Your GM gives you the exact setup of every encounter? Because I've never seen anything like that. Most of the time, we have a very general idea of the enemies we fight but no such specific info. And anyway, most adventuring days feature a mix of combats, having an entire day where you only fight mooks or ambushes would be boring as hell.
Even more circumstantial things, like in our Kingmaker our rogue is currently drained 3, forcing him into the backline instead of the frontline. An Animist there could easily switch to a frontliner to take on the slack.
You should be able to remove the Rogue Condition if you take a long rest. At least, they'll be only Drained 2.
The core thing is to see in general how the party fares vs the current threats, and switch for the following days.
I don't need to play a random adventuring day to know what the party needs and provide it right from day 1.
But that is also NOT the extend of Animist flexibility.
I'm not criticizing real time flexibility, as this one is real. I'm criticizing day to day flexibility. Switching Apparitions at the beginning of the day, with the intent on using the Vessel Spell, will be an absolute rarity. Switching Apparitions at the beginning of the day is only interesting for Lores and Apparition spells. So dumping Strength on an Animist won't reduce your versatility by even a notch.
You know it the next. So you prepare for the next encounters now that you know usual enemies in the environment you're in.If the enemy has a lot of aoe and/or the party in general takes more damage than it can sustain, more healing is better. If the enemy is skirmishing and going for backlines, if there are resistances/high saves, or if there simply isn't enough of a frontline, you switch to a gish. Gish is also nice if you want to reserve spellslots for that final big fight to unload all your high spells into that. If the enemy is lots of smaller threats rather than 1 big one, you switch to a blaster, and etc.How do you know that during your daily preparations? Your GM gives you the exact setup of every encounter? Because I've never seen anything like that. Most of the time, we have a very general idea of the enemies we fight but no such specific info. And anyway, most adventuring days feature a mix of combats, having an entire day where you only fight mooks or ambushes would be boring as hell.
And I repeat my question: How do you know that during your daily preparations? Because stating that the next day I know what I should have prepared the previous day doesn't help much, at that stage it's too late.
Changing your Spell Repertoire and your Vessel spells, your Skills and your Feats is not real time flexibility.
It's day to day flexibility.
I recognize the point of changing Spell Repertoire and Skills. I don't see any point in changing Vessel Spells or Feats.
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Simply put, if I encounter X, Y, Z in a dungeon, I expect those to be around the second day as well.
So if during day 1 the party took more damage than it can sustain, then you expect during day 2 that the party will take more damage than it can sustain.
If during day 1 you faced a lot of skirmishing enemies who went for the backlines, you expect the same for day 2.If during day 1 encounters were featuring hordes of small monsters, you expect day 2 encounters to feature hordes of small monsters.
How often do you get it right? Because from my experience, there's no such rule in the game. Actually, it's nearly the opposite: The designers tend to vary between encounter types to avoid the party to face always the same type of encounters. Having an endless stream of ambushes quickly get old. Facing always hordes of mooks and never solo monsters will also be pretty boring.
So for me you're doing wild guesses.
All the actual examples I gave in the previous answer above are favourable to switching regardless of amounts of enemies and are some very often circumstances.
Well, I can answer to your examples.
Like, if I have reveler to help with Control, and suddenly I'm in an undead infested area, I'm going to switch it due to a lot of them being mindless.
If you use a Mental Vessel Spell, you should obviously have a non-mental Vessel spell available in one of your Apparitions, otherwise there'll be fights where you'll be completely useless. So you don't change anything during your daily preparations, you just switch your main Apparition to the one that works against Mindless enemies.
If I have a melee focus spell and suddenly I'm in a troll den, I'll switch to blasting with fire.
In that case, I agree that you'll take Steward of Stone and Fire during your next daily preparations if you don't use it normally.
As a side note, you'll still keep your gish Apparition as there may be fights against non-Trolls and it's your main Apparition after all.If I have healing and we're facing things that swarm all around us and make it impossible to get my allies without getting the enemies, I'll switch.
You won't have the time. If the dungeon features multiple days of swarm fights, I can assure you a lot of players will scream about it as Rogues, Swashbucklers and Investigators can't do anything against swarms. So I highly doubt you'll face any swarm the next day.
So you found one case where switching an Apparition is useful. Unless you have other cases, it's pretty limited for an ability.
Even after over 30 years of roleplaying I can still count on one hand the total number of times it took more than one in-game day to explore and clear a dungeon.
Does your party consist solely of amurruns that sleep all the time?
A) So you'd rather be half as effective (only have 1 vessel instead of 2) cause...?
That's the crux of our disagreement: I'll be more effective. You are using an Apparition you haven't really built for, I use an Apparition I have built for, with feat support and appropriate equipment. And you can't go back to your main Apparition, I can go back to my main Apparition so if we face non Mindless enemies I'll be even more effective than you will be.
You only need one Apparition per fight. Going back and forth between Apparitions serves no purpose but wasting your actions. As a matter of fact Circle of Spirits is not a class feature, you can perfectly play an Animist without it. You don't really need more than one main Apparition per day (even if I agree that Circle of Spirits is still rather useful, it's just not a necessity).
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I'm going to be honest, I like the day to day flexibility of the Animist... Because I think it's cool, I think it's a cool fantasy. If it can work functionally in the party and deliver on the fantasy that I can interact with and adjust what spirits I connect with on a thematic narratively level than I am happy. And it seems to be able to do that.
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I'm going to be honest, I like the day to day flexibility of the Animist... Because I think it's cool, I think it's a cool fantasy. If it can work functionally in the party and deliver on the fantasy that I can interact with and adjust what spirits I connect with on a thematic narratively level than I am happy. And it seems to be able to do that.
On that point I can only agree with you. Even if it's not something I'm interested in, I can't deny it raises a lot of praise.
I just want to clarify that I'm not saying there's something inherently wrong in playing an Animist that way, just that it's not the sole way of playing one nor the only optimized way of playing one.
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Even after over 30 years of roleplaying I can still count on one hand the total number of times it took more than one in-game day to explore and clear a dungeon.
Does your party consist solely of amurruns that sleep all the time?
Do you only delve into broomclosets?
Good luck clearing Rappan Athuk in a day.
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I just want to clarify that I'm not saying there's something inherently wrong in playing an Animist that way, just that it's not the sole way of playing one nor the only optimized way of playing one.
I'd just written a long post pointing out that playing an Animist using multiple apparitions per fight was quite viable and in some circumstances optimal or close to it.
Then I saw this clarification :-). And deleted that long post :-) :-).
Whether it was me misreading or your being less than perfectly clear I had thought that you WERE more or less claiming that it WAS wrong (at least suboptimal) to play an animist that way.
But I'm in total agreement that the Animist is SUCH a flexible class that there are many, many optimal (or close enough to not matter) ways to play the class.
I've always hugely valued flexibility in my characters so I always build for that. I'm quite willing to pay a (hopefully small) cost to achieve that.
Even after over 30 years of roleplaying I can still count on one hand the total number of times it took more than one in-game day to explore and clear a dungeon.
Does your party consist solely of amurruns that sleep all the time?
Do you only delve into broomclosets?
Good luck clearing Rappan Athuk in a day.
As we get older it is getting rarer and rarer for us to venture outside of published adventure paths or PFS, which are notorious for their small dungeons.
Even in our heyday though, larger dungeons were super rare simply because no one had the time or inclination to make them larger and more complicated. It's a lot of work!
Whether it was me misreading or your being less than perfectly clear I had thought that you WERE more or less claiming that it WAS wrong (at least suboptimal) to play an animist that way.
You are not completely crazy. To be 100% honest, I think it is.
But I don't think I can prove it. I've laid out my arguments, if you're not convinced then I can't do much more, and I won't go in a loop conversation just to "win".But more importantly, I reacted at first to the Animist conversations because some posters were claiming that using Strength as a 4th attribute was more or less natural/intended. What I'd call a One True Build mentality. So I won't retort with another One True Build mentality. That'd be ridiculous.
And also, would the difference be meaningful? If both builds are close enough then people should follow their preference instead of focusing on getting 1% extra power.
In my opinion, experience will speak. I expect player experience to slowly push them toward one build or another, depending on the number of occasions where they'll switch Apparitions during their daily preparations. So in my opinion, this point will settle at some point or, maybe, stay always there if both approach are more or less equally valid.
I also think there'll be 2 very different experience between players. In general, I see players being very enthusiastic about Focus Powers (and other at-will powers, like Impulses), in my opinion because they are easy to use. From my experience, I think a lot of players are not mastering the resource management of spell slots and as such prefer to ease the burden by focusing on at will powers. It leads to a very different playstyle compared to mine, as I'm focusing on slotted spells and tend to literally ignore Focus Powers. The Animist being very Focus Power centric, I think it'll lead to very different experience. And as such different optimization paradigms that will obviously lead to different optimized builds.
My argument was never STR is the 4th attribute. It was the class values STR more than DEX, so if you want to boost another attribute like INT or CHA, you will lose quite a bit of the class’ versatility if you tank STR.
Deciding that the versatility doesn’t matter to you is fine, but it is taking up space in the class’ power budget.
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I think that's too binary. There are a couple of options that uniquely benefit from strength, but it's not like you're abandoning everything by not using them, you'll just be using other options. Since there are a bunch of options and they're semi-exclusive it's not really that big of a deal. They'll just invest their resources in other places and do other things.
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It was the class values STR more than DEX
For the VAST number of animist options, this just isn't true. You're missing out in 1/10th of 1/10th the apparitions [1st 2 levels of devourering dark] and 1/13th of the feats [Roaring Hear, Instinctive Maneuvers, Forest Heart]. That just plain isn't a hit to versatility except for out of class versatility like picking up heavy armor with an archetype and your weapon choice, and those aren't really something to do with the ability to take on different roles through swapping apparition's. So I think saying "Deciding that the versatility doesn’t matter to you is fine" is completely wrong. You say that I "will lose quite a bit of the class’ versatility" is I tank str, so what exactly do I lose that i didn't point out? What's "quite a bit"?
From my perspective, Animist is buffing the stats that are normally useless or weaker to casters. Hence the significant Strength-based options and the few Intelligence-based options. So I'd say that all stats are roughly equally balanced on an Animist instead of saying that Strength would somehow be of any superior importance.
Intelligence and Charisma I'd say are much less-supported than Strength or Dexterity on an Animist. Although the Animist gets bonus Lore skills and an apparition that boosts your Crafting, checks using a specific Lore tend to be both fairly situational and much easier than regular checks due to the reduced DC, whereas the Crafting boost is going to be useful mainly for exploration or downtime rather than the life-or-death situations the Thievery boost on traveling workshop is meant to help with. Charisma has no special support in the Animist's features or feats, so while an Animist could always go Intelligence or Charisma and be a strong character, they wouldn't be able to put certain apparitions to the fullest use, whereas Strength + Dex + Con + Wis would.
On the subject of Lore, I'm surprised the Animist doesn't do more with their Lore skills or Recalling Knowledge: their apparition Lore acts as a prerequisite for wandering feats, but besides that there doesn't seem to be much encouraging the Animist to Recall Knowledge with their Lore or making them better at RK in general, much less an apparition dedicated to RK in the same way the Crafter in the Vault is the dedicated anti-hazard apparition. It feels like those bonus Lore skills are part of the things the Animist gets just because, much like their extra spell slots from level 10 onwards, rather than essential component to their play.
From my perspective, Animist is buffing the stats that are normally useless or weaker to casters. Hence the significant Strength-based options and the few Intelligence-based options. So I'd say that all stats are roughly equally balanced on an Animist instead of saying that Strength would somehow be of any superior importance.
Okay, but then if each option is based on your stats, then what is the point of being able to change your options if your stats don't change with them to accommodate? Just because I have the option to change to a Strength-based apparition that is more relevant is still a poor decision because I have no Strength score to utilize it with. It's like using a Bastard Sword in 2 hands and being forced to use a Light Mace because the enemy is resistant to slashing damage.
It's a neat mechanic in theory, but fails horribly in it's execution because you are missing values anywhere from 2 to 6 points, which is a huge swing given how praised abilities like Courageous Anthem are.
And I am absolutely struggling to even try to build an Animist character because they are completely MAD, more than any class in the game. They feel extremely complicated and not worth the headache. I would almost much rather play a Wizard over this class, and I can't believe I would ever say that phrase in my lifetime.
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It feels like those bonus Lore skills are part of the things the Animist gets just because
It's flavorful, fun when it works, and provides a helpful way for them to key certain wandering options in a way that's future proofed, all while generally being kind of low impact. I'm not sure why that's a bad thing.
Okay, but then if each option is based on your stats, then what is the point of being able to change your options if your stats don't change with them to accommodate? Just because I have the option to change to a Strength-based apparition that is more relevant is still a poor decision because I have no Strength score to utilize it with. It's like using a Bastard Sword in 2 hands and being forced to use a Light Mace because the enemy is resistant to slashing damage.
I don't really understand the issue. Yeah, if you don't have a good strength score the stuff that keys off of strength isn't really useful for you. So you don't take those options if you aren't built for them.
And I am absolutely struggling to even try to build an Animist character because they are completely MAD, more than any class in the game.
?
You're a wisdom primary caster that's like the easiest thing to build in the world. They're not MAD at all unless you want to go investing into secondary features, much less "more than any class in the game" ... like there's a whole pile of martials that need a mental stat that are actually MAD sitting right over there Animist doesn't even make the top 5. If anything, the Animist might not even know what to do with their last ASI since your core needs (KAS, saves, ac, health) are covered in three.
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Okay, but then if each option is based on your stats, then what is the point of being able to change your options if your stats don't change with them to accommodate?
There is a lot more flexibility in the class than any single character is likely to be able to use effectively.
To take an obvious example, if you've CHOSEN to invest in Strength and buy some weapons then Witness to Ancient Battles becomes a fine Apparition. Take it and enjoy gishing.
But if you've chosen to be a gnome with Str 8 then this Apparition is probably a really poor choice for you. So take some of the other 10 Apparitions instead.
The point isn't to be able to effectively use all 11 Apparitions all of the time. Its to decide which 5 or 6 or 7 you want to use over the course of your career. Its VERY likely that the apparitions that you attune to will change as you level up (perhaps with some retraining and repurchasing of gear).
For example, Darkened Forest Form is much more effective at some levels than at others. It drops seriously off in the end game. Similarly, a Feat like Walk the Wilds will almost certainly be retrained at mid levels.
And the usefulness of some Apparitions is going to depend hugely on the campaign. If you're spending most of your time in tight little dungeons then Darkened Forest Form is going to be a LOT less useful than a campaign where you spend most of your time outdoors or in massively huge caverns.
It's flavorful, fun when it works, and provides a helpful way for them to key certain wandering options in a way that's future proofed, all while generally being kind of low impact. I'm not sure why that's a bad thing.
I was struggling for a moment to think of how someone could manage to twist "bonus Lore skills are a nice little side addition rather than something you build your whole character around, and it'd be nice to have additional support for a build that leaned more heavily into those skills" into "Lore skills bad", but then I remembered who I was talking to, and remembered that this is the internet. You may want to ease off the defensiveness just a touch here.
To be clear, all of the different Lore skills the Animist gets are among the things I love the most about the class, and are a feature I genuinely really like. I think it makes perfect sense to get knowledge from one's apparitions, I think flavor-specific feats keying off of specific Lore skills you get from apparitions is a neat way of implementing thematic prerequisites, and I very much agree that Lore skills have the perk of not costing much on the power budget while leading to really exciting moments when a check comes up that does correspond to one of the Lore skills you have. This is why I think there is a sterling opportunity for a RK-centric apparition: the foundation is already there, and having that kind of apparition would reinforce support for Animist builds that incorporate Intelligence at the expense of Strength or Dexterity. Given how versatility is meant to be the Animist's core asset, it would be in line with the class, and it'd be interesting to make clear their aspect where they have a lot of options at their disposal, yet have to choose which subset to focus on in the long-term. This isn't a criticism of the class, this is a celebration of their design and an expression of hopeful enthusiasm for more.
But if you've chosen to be a gnome with Str 8 then this Apparition is probably a really poor choice for you. So take some of the other 10 Apparitions instead.
It's only a poor choice if you pick the wrong weapons. A Jezail with a Bayonet attached can take full advantage of Witness to Ancient Battles: for some reason, whenever someone talks about gishing, it's only with str when there are plenty of dex options.
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An -1 str is definitely bad for anyone that is going to do melee, which you don’t want to shut yourself out of if you take the Witness focus spell, since the reactive strike is pretty necessary for getting you action economy back out of.
An animist does not suffer at all from having an -1 in CHA. The do suffer from having a -1 in INT, because the class has nothing for starting skills. CHA is really the only attribute an animist can actively tank, but they don’t need much invested into INT, STR or DEX necessarily, so they have a lot of wiggle room. Starting with +1s and +2s in secondary attributes is perfectly fine for this class.
Okay, but then if each option is based on your stats, then what is the point of being able to change your options if your stats don't change with them to accommodate? Just because I have the option to change to a Strength-based apparition that is more relevant is still a poor decision because I have no Strength score to utilize it with. It's like using a Bastard Sword in 2 hands and being forced to use a Light Mace because the enemy is resistant to slashing damage.I don't really understand the issue. Yeah, if you don't have a good strength score the stuff that keys off of strength isn't really useful for you. So you don't take those options if you aren't built for them.
And I am absolutely struggling to even try to build an Animist character because they are completely MAD, more than any class in the game.?
You're a wisdom primary caster that's like the easiest thing to build in the world. They're not MAD at all unless you want to go investing into secondary features, much less "more than any class in the game" ... like there's a whole pile of martials that need a mental stat that are actually MAD sitting right over there Animist doesn't even make the top 5. If anything, the Animist might not even know what to do with their last ASI since your core needs (KAS, saves, ac, health) are covered in three.
The issue is that if you're meant to be shifting between Apparitions day by day, and those shifts require attribute changes, then you're basically setting yourself up for failure by changing them, thereby reducing the entire point of being able to change Apparitions. The ability to change Apparitions becomes a trap by nature of the game's scaling and how far behind from the projected math you become. And if the idea is "You should only be using 2 or 3 different Apparitions overall based on your attribute layout," then I don't see the value in being able to change Apparitions, much less feats that rely on said Apparitions, if you're just sticking to the same 2 or 3 Apparitions every time, because your attributes basically tell you "going any other Apparition is a trap."
And yet, here we are, debating the merits of what to invest in with your ancillary attributes. Nope, definitely not MAD at all. Not that much debate behind the other classes, because it's quite easy what to build with them, nor is taking those ancillary attributes going to significantly impact what you do with your features. Cleric used to be, but they fixed that, and the others don't have features keying off of other attributes, or if they do, then it doesn't matter if you scale them or not.
Can't say the same about the Animist though, where we have arguments of "You go Strength if you want Gish capabilities, but if you want skills, go Intelligence," etc. And that's because they have mutable features that can change based off of these attributes, meaning they don't ever have a "dead" stat. At best, we can argue that they have to "choose" which stat to kill/tank down and to then just boost the rest, but that requires a fair amount of research as well as understanding what role you need to fill in your party.
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And if the idea is "You should only be using 2 or 3 different Apparitions overall based on your attribute layout," then I don't see the value in being able to change Apparitions, much less feats that rely on said Apparitions, if you're just sticking to the same 2 or 3 Apparitions every time, because your attributes basically tell you "going any other Apparition is a trap."
Apparitions are not just about Vessel Spells. You can also switch Apparitions to get other Apparition Spells and other Lore skills.
The Wandering trait is mostly useless, on that I agree. But I think Paizo felt kind of forced to put it as otherwise you'd have periodically a dead feat.
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Here is how I'd stat a dexterity leaning animist:
1: STR-1 DEX-2 CON-2 INT-0 WIS-4 CHA-0
5: STR-1 DEX-3 CON-3 INT-1 WIS-4+ CHA-0
10: STR-2 DEX-4 CON-4 INT-1 WIS-5 CHA-0
15: STR-2 DEX-4+ CON-4+ INT-2 WIS-5+ CHA-0
20: STR-3 DEX-5 CON-5 INT-2 WIS-6 CHA-0
And for a strength leaning animist:
1: STR-2 DEX-1 CON-2 INT-0 WIS-4 CHA-0
5: STR-3 DEX-1 CON-3 INT-1 WIS-4+ CHA-0
10: STR-4 DEX-2 CON-4 INT-1 WIS-5 CHA-0
15: STR-4+ DEX-2 CON-4+ INT-2 WIS-5+ CHA-0
20: STR-5 DEX-3 CON-5 INT-2 WIS-6 CHA-0
If that's too MAD, I don't know what to tell you.
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I was struggling for a moment to think of how someone could manage to twist "bonus Lore skills are a nice little side addition rather than something you build your whole character around, and it'd be nice to have additional support for a build that leaned more heavily into those skills" into "Lore skills bad", but then I remembered who I was talking to, and remembered that this is the internet. You may want to ease off the defensiveness just a touch here.
Fair enough. You mentioned them alongside the extra spell slots you've maligned so I took that to mean you considered them both part of the same issue. Sorry.
The issue is that if you're meant to be shifting between Apparitions day by day, and those shifts require attribute changes, then you're basically setting yourself up for failure by changing them, thereby reducing the entire point of being able to change Apparitions.
I think you're dramatically overcomplicated and overexaggerating the issue here. You have a couple of options that benefit from being high strength, so you might want to use them if you want to play that kind of Animist, but if you aren't high strength you just... do something else instead.
Like if you're a Barbarian with no Charisma you probably don't take a feat like Raging Intimidation... and if you never want to use a weapon you probably don't pick the Warpriest cleric doctrine and then imply the game has entrapped you.
But a Strength melee gish animist is probably going to do Str/Con/Wis and then either pad Dex or grab plate and then have a floating attribute bump to go wherever, and a non-gish animist is going to probably do Dex/Con/Wis and have a floating attribute bump that can go wherever. Not exactly hyper MAD here.
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I really wouldn't knock the wandering trait, because regardless of your apparitions, you will always have strong options at your disposal to switch between. At 6th level, where you start getting your first round of wandering feats, you get two wandering feats that don't require any particular apparition: Apparition Stabilization, a straight-up better Steady Spellcasting, and Medium's Awareness, which lets you Seek and roll initiative with the equivalent of expert-to-legendary proficiency on a Wisdom class. Level 12 adds Spiritual Guidance and Whispers of Warning, so you get an effective +5 to your attack or AC as a reaction once every 10 minutes, and level 16 adds Spiritual Spellshape Stance for free-action spellshapes. Most of these feats are above the curve in the power they offer, so even without the trait they'd be great, but for whichever reason they were given the additional benefit of being feats you can retrain every day, which by itself adds a tremendous amount of power through flexibility. You really can be anything you want to be, to the point where I think there's a legitimate risk of the class feeling samey over multiple playthroughs.
The issue is that if you're meant to be shifting between Apparitions day by day, and those shifts require attribute changes, then you're basically setting yourself up for failure by changing them, thereby reducing the entire point of being able to change Apparitions.I think you're dramatically overcomplicated and overexaggerating the issue here. You have a couple of options that benefit from being high strength, so you might want to use them if you want to play that kind of Animist, but if you aren't high strength you just... do something else instead.
Like if you're a Barbarian with no Charisma you probably don't take a feat like Raging Intimidation... and if you never want to use a weapon you probably don't pick the Warpriest cleric doctrine and then imply the game has entrapped you.
But a Strength melee gish animist is probably going to do Str/Con/Wis and then either pad Dex or grab plate and then have a floating attribute bump to go wherever, and a non-gish animist is going to probably do Dex/Con/Wis and have a floating attribute bump that can go wherever. Not exactly hyper MAD here.
Like what? Charisma is pretty basic, I don't have to be an Animist to be decent at it, and the class itself doesn't offer anything in particular for Charisma. Intelligence might be good if the class offered more with the Lore skills, but it just doesn't. It would require other options for it to work (like Investigator or Loremaster dedications). And Strength is self-explanatory, but it won't be better than a +2 at the most starting out, and it only gets worse over time, so it becomes a dying feature.
The options for Animist aren't that cut and dry, though. They are a lot more subtle and complex in design that not picking the right ones at the right levels/fights is basically nullifying your character. Like, I wouldn't have assumed certain options to require being good with certain attributes at a first glance. And the issue then becomes "Well, you can only use maybe half the options with this attribute array, or the other half with a different attribute array," then the value of being able to change them becomes significantly reduced because the options available to you are down, because the other half are traps if you think about taking them.
An -1 str is definitely bad for anyone that is going to do melee, which you don’t want to shut yourself out of if you take the Witness focus spell, since the reactive strike is pretty necessary for getting you action economy back out of.
Nothing about Witness forces you into melee, and if you do wander into it, there are some very popular weapon runes that add 1d6's to damage. Secondly, I don't think you should go in expecting Reactive Strike to make up for anything: you can go a LONG time without anything triggering it, especially if you aren't fighting humanoid foes. How often you find reactive strike triggering is very Dm dependent, so your milage will vary.
And the issue then becomes "Well, you can only use maybe half the options with this attribute array, or the other half with a different attribute array," then the value of being able to change them becomes significantly reduced because the options available to you are down, because the other half are traps if you think about taking them.
Good thing that's not the case then. I've asked for people to state what you lose out on without str, and it sure isn't 1/2 but less than 1/10th, so I'm not sure where the angst is coming from that you can't switch apparitions. Is there some apparition you somehow think doesn't work with a basic stat array like Str/Con/Wis or Dex/Con/Wis?
Sorry, but Spiritual Guidance didn't make it past the playtest.
That'll teach me to look up the feats on Demiplane! Whispers of Warning still exists, though, so the broader point stands.