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@DM Doctor Evil: I’m actually unsure of the usefulness of getting people to vote for what they want to play. Ultimately I think the best game you will run is one *you* want to run. Once you’ve chosen what you want to run, then you get folks who definitely want to play that.
I know this comes across as “teaching someone how to suck eggs” but given you have a track record of solid GM’ing and at least two folks here who are happy to play despite “bailing”** previously I would say just run what you want. And I’m not sure why you need a whole bunch of days to figure that out.
* I have absolute faith that you can and will do a great job of converting and running Iron Gods.
* As for being precluded from applying for a game that I didn’t vote for there is no way in Irrisen I would do that. Why apply for a game I don’t care for? Personally, Iron Gods is the only one that at all interests me.
* As for Bloc 2, if I can’t vote again for Iron Gods to pip some other AP, I’ll vote for a PF2R conversion of TAGDQ 1-12 (being T1 The Village of Hommlet; A1-4 The Slavers series; G1-3 Against the Giants; D1-3 The Drow Trilogy and Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits). We should be able to get through that just in time for me to drop dead. Twice.
** As long as you left with adequate warning, fair enough. And even if you didn’t I’m sure you had your reasons and apologies go a long way with people. So does fronting up to GM for this motley tatterdemalion gang of useless players. ;)
I did something similar before with asking about a back-port into 1e: the poster could just want to do all of them, but needs to narrow it down? It's not like you can do 8 campaigns at once.
Newish to the boards here... long time watching them though! finally decided to try my hand
Welcome then! Hope you see how its done. New players to the boards are welcome to the game. Let us know if you need some help.
Are you new to PF also?
@OSW2.5 - Appreciate your perspective. I chose this selection method because a) it generates interest and conversation b) I have already narrowed the field considerably to the things I want to run c) invariably, there's no pleasing everyone, so this helps sort out what most want to play and d) it might prompt some other player/GM to run something else that gets a lot of votes.
Anyway, I think I still have 1st Ed copies of all those games you mention, and I guess we can break them out if everything else falls through. Not sure any modern day pathfinders are ready for the sheer terror of facing some old 1st Edition foe with a 9 STR, a 7 DEX, 4 (or less) HPs and one spell per day.
@OSW2.5 - Appreciate your perspective. I chose this selection method because a) it generates interest and conversation b) I have already narrowed the field considerably to the things I want to run c) invariably, there's no pleasing everyone, so this helps sort out what most want to play and d) it might prompt some other player/GM to run something else that gets a lot of votes.
Fair enough. Violant’s post made me aware of the “narrrowing down” concept, so I guess it must be a thing. And if your d) comes to pass, that would be awesome.
Anyway, I think I still have 1st Ed copies of all those games you mention, and I guess we can break them out if everything else falls through. Not sure any modern day pathfinders are ready for the sheer terror of facing some old 1st Edition foe with a 9 STR, a 7 DEX, 4 (or less) HPs and one spell per day.
Haha. Well I did say PF2R converted, so if the terror is indeed facing such a foe rather than being such an individual, then the terror is all theirs. My chief joy of the older modules was the extreme danger that could be engendered - the Slaver’s stockade could get mighty…hot if approached incorrectly, and the various steadings/rifts/hall of certain…bigger folk also. Add in some naked doom, abandoned moathouses, liches lying randomly in caves just off the beaten track, fishy monitors and a planar smorgasbord topped off with an actual spaceship and you have a hell of a ride. ;)
But I don’t think there’s any chance of this “falling through”. You’ll be cursing my name as you find yourself running Kingmaker and Curse of the Crimson Throne instead of two tables of Iron Gods like a good DM Doctor Evil. Not that Iron Gods is some stellar AP, but it is far more interesting to me than any of the others.
I heard mention of AD&D, so I materialized :P
And come now, let's be fair - the 1e PHB does state 'the premise of the game is that each player character is above average - at least in some respects - and has superior potential. Furthermore, it is usually essential to the character's survival to be exceptional (with a rating of 15 or above) in no fewer than two ability characteristics'. So I feel like high Ability Scores were actually expected (regardless of how we might have played it :D).
Then, the 1e AD&D DMG had/has several methods for character creation, and the first one (recommended) was 4d6, drop the lowest and assign in the order the player desires. I know the 'average' roll is a 12 or something thereabout, and the average array would fall on something like 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16.
The other Methods would generate (even) better arrays.
So.... It wasn't THAT bad.
That being said, my vote goes for the Classic TAGDQ Modules recommended by OSW, played using OSRIC!
Apologies for derailing, I will go sit quietly in the corner now.
Hey there, DM DoctorEvil! I haven't played 2E since the last game of yours I took part in before my early departure.
Still trying to wrap my head around that ruleset, so your beginner-ish friendly approach is greatly appreciated.
Campaign One:
Campaign Two:
Long time ttrpg player, first time on forums and relatively new to playing pf2e (finally got my group to switch over) but been interested for a few years now.
Group 1: Curse of the Crimson Throne
Group 2: Age of Ashes
I'd be interested in playing in a Kingmaker game as well, but between the two I would prefer AoA
Hey there, DM DoctorEvil! I haven't played 2E since the last game of yours I took part in before my early departure.
Happy to help you learn the system. Glad to see you back again.
Got your votes recorded.
Long time ttrpg player, first time on forums and relatively new to playing pf2e (finally got my group to switch over) but been interested for a few years now.
Welcome to the board then. Thanks for being adventurous. Got your votes.
With enough new to the boards players, I may run a one=shot or something else just for them, so if there are more lurking, make yourselves known!
Only a handful of votes today, so the results don't change too much. And I am not giving credit for negative votes, though I appreciate the effort and the sentiment behind it.
Here are the standings through Tuesday:
Runelords 2
Crimson Throne 7
Reign of Winter 8
Iron Gods 7
Tyrant's zero
(Write in votes: Wicked 2, 1st ed D%D 2)
Age of Ashes 3
Kingmaker 12
Strength 4
Frozen Flame 2
Sky King 1
Kingmaker had a big start but has slowed way down, but the votes have also slowed a bit, so not much ground has been made up yet. The 1st cohort race is too close to call so far..
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My heart says Tyrant's Grasp for the 1e converted group. I wish the the last couple of 1e adventure paths would get more love than they do. But, my head knows Tyrant's Grasp (or Return of the Runelords) isn't going anywhere. So, my vote goes to Curse of the Crimson Throne because it's one of the greats and I love an urban adventure.
For the 2e group it came down to Strength of Thousands or Quest for the Frozen Flame because of the new locations. My experience with 2e is dime-thin so if I'm going to be in new territory, I want new territory all the way around. I'll vote for Strength of Thousands because from what I hear it leans more toward RP, which I always like.
Hello DM DoctorEvil.
I have not played Pathfinder 2E as of yet (neither original nor remastered), but would be very interested in learning. I have play a lot of 1E and many other editions and RPGs.
As for the votes:
1E Updated: I would vote Tyrant's Grasp simply because it is the one of the options listed that I have not played in any form to date.
2E: Kingmaker is my leaning, but a lot of that is my lack of knowledge about the other offered options. If I were to put in a write in candidate, it would be Stolen Fate, but that's just because I've always been a sucker for the Harrow.
I was in a CoCT game that fizzled in the second book, which was a huge bummer.
And--I have never played Kingmaker, so the 2E reboot, which I think has balanced it out a bit, sounds pretty neat. Those are my votes.
I'm GM'ing RoW. We're in the 3rd book and I'm having trouble keeping up momentum, but I'm too stubborn to quit. ;) The curse of running APs on play by post!
If I were to put in a write in candidate, it would be Stolen Fate, but that's just because I've always been a sucker for the Harrow.
Scratch that write in. I didn't realize that Stolen Fate started at a higher level. Probably not a good idea for someone who hasn't played 2E yet...
I did not pick any of the 2E APs that start at later levels. Easier to acclimate at 1st level, and easer for the group dynamics to sort out.
Axolotl- is the 3rd book of RoW where the PCs end up on a different planet? I am trying to remember without looking it up....
Again, those with limited to no PF2 experience are still welcome to try their hand. It's not that far off the original, and IMO, somewhat improved though perhaps a little more deadly at low levels.
Updated voting totals for those following along at home:
Runelords 2
Crimson Throne 9
Reign of Winter 8
Iron Gods 7
Tyrant's 1
(Write in votes: Wicked 2, 1st ed D%D 2)
Age of Ashes 3
Kingmaker 14
Strength 5
Frozen Flame 2
Sky King 1
The third book is a triple dungeon crawl. No planet hopping (yet)
Immediately after is the planet hopping. I know a bit about the campaign since I read the 5th book for. Well, 5th book reasons.
I'd really like to play more 2e in general, and most of these APs sound like fun to me, so chances are that I'll be sending in an application for whatever winds up getting picked.
That said, the ones that catch my eye the most are probably Iron Gods and Strength of Thousands.
I've either run or played at least part of all those 1st edition campaigns. XD But let's see, if I had to vote...
Iron Gods
Strength of Thousands.
Not very many votes today, so momentum may be slowing down. Plan to keep the voting up through Saturday night at least. A three way tie in the first race, and Strength of Thousands has a good day to start closing the gap.
Runelords 2
Crimson Throne 9
Reign of Winter 9
Iron Gods 9
Tyrant's 1
(Write in votes: Wicked 2, 1st ed D%D 2)
Age of Ashes 3
Kingmaker 14
Strength 8
Frozen Flame 2
Sky King 1
I'm coming in here to destroy the three way tie. Iron Gods for me, because it's thematically just a little bit different than the rest of PF I've played before.
I'm also gonna help SoT! I read so many comments about it that it totally isn't Harry Potter in PF and that's a good thing. Apparently HP is not very much liked (it's probably more his author). But I do like HP and I'd definitely try to put a HP-feeling into that game!
I'll break the tie.
Change my vote from Reign of Winter to Iron Gods -- Who doesn't like a cosmos conquering AI?
I like checking the score each day, and pondering characters for application once the voting is over. It's been a pretty fun thread.
I already have 2 or 3 ideas for KM.
Still need one for IG
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I am going to have an interesting application process that focuses more on your ability to RP, and to stick around a game long term, than on the absolute crunch of characters or some kind of formulaic party mix.
In my experience, the better characters are developed, instead of just being stat blocks, and the longer people can hangs with a game, the better experience it is for everyone. The actual crunch will come and get worked out but the character interaction over time is what gives games more depth and dimension.
Be prepared to prove your RP ability and give some testimony to long term ability to stick in threads on the boards. (If you are a new player, the latter may not apply to you). Develop the characteristics, quirks, NPC relationships, motivations, and flaws of your PC more than their feats and abilities if you want to be successful in applying.
Oh, and one more thing (we will get into this more when Recruitment threads go up), traditional builds using core concepts appeal to me way more than some exotic half monster. But to reiterate, it'll be about the development of the persona, not the rulebook things that matter.
(I'm not going to focus on build rules here, so save your questions please)
I just enjoy making characters =^^=
But their story definitely applies. Story is very important
I just enjoy making characters =^^=
But their story definitely applies. Story is very important
I'm much the same way. I love writing so I'm one of those people with many characters ready to go a lot of the time.
That said, I'm also one of those people who builds my characters around what I know about a campaign so many of those characters are resigned to my character idea graveyard
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I just enjoy making characters =^^=
But their story definitely applies. Story is very important
I'm much the same way. I love writing so I'm one of those people with many characters ready to go a lot of the time.
That said, I'm also one of those people who builds my characters around what I know about a campaign so many of those characters are resigned to my character idea graveyard
I'm the exact same way...even for ones I've already played like Iron Gods! Even when I'm PLAYING an AP part of me's like "Oh darn, I could have iterated on this character concept better if I'd done X, Y or Z with them...too late to change it NOW though!" It's a curse! >_<
I am going to have an interesting application process that focuses more on your ability to RP, and to stick around a game long term, than on the absolute crunch of characters or some kind of formulaic party mix.
I don't know if this is common in play-by-post games, but I have to say that I love the idea and I can see how it makes for a much better game.
I'm the exact same way...even for ones I've already played like Iron Gods! Even when I'm PLAYING an AP part of me's like "Oh darn, I could have iterated on this character concept better if I'd done X, Y or Z with them...too late to change it NOW though!" It's a curse! >_<
I try not to let myself plan out characters too much because you never know how long the game will go for or if the character might change as a campaign plays out. In my friend's current homebrew game I have about three different ideas for how my character would play out, and already after our last session that's bound to change with how things have played out.
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I have always favored mechanically simple but narratively complex characters. You can certainly do both, to be clear, no Stormwind fallacy here, but that’s not been my focus. The options in the Core RulebookPlayer Core books provide so many possibilities that you’ll never exhaust them in a lifetime of gaming, even if you play a different game every day.
My observation is that folks who do PbP by choice—who care about the medium per se rather than as their only choice for a game—do tend to lean into the narrative. There are some stickied threads on the general PbP forums extolling the virtue of the format and I wholeheartedly agree with them on that point.
I don’t think I need to convince people here of those merits. Not being able to play a character is certainly frustrating, but I try to look at that kind of situation positively: in developing those characters, planning their arcs (best done with an AP or other long campaign rather than a module or organized play scenarios), watching them grow, you become a better writer, a better artist. That’s what matters most to me, the creativity and the artistry.
Indeed, I’ve been working on the bard I plan to make for my application. I also strongly favor building the character around the AP I’m applying for and using that to provide the essential structure for the character—see what I did with Talindra and Halanestra—but this time I set myself a challenge and am building without that. This means I’ve needed to be a bit more generic and may need to change some details depending on the game in applying to, but that’s the challenge and right now it’s been interesting :) Fine arts practitioners, especially painters, do what’s called studies, which are really just practice works meant to explore a medium or technique. I think writers can benefit from exactly the same kind of practice, and that’s what this has been.
What a very lovely way to put that, Talindra! I think part of the draw to me for trying this format is the fact that I enjoy writing and developing characters and see this as a good medium to explore that and also try and develop more as a player.
I have a few ideas kicking around to apply with, but I haven't settled on anything quite yet. Although no spellcasters right now for sure. I'm playing a Wizard in a friend's game and I think playing a martial will be easier to get more acclimated to this play style.
I do lean into narrative a bit when pbp'ing, but I don't like writing out long paragraphs in melee. A few choice quips works for me. I do love filling out a world, though, and interacting with other characters. If I submit something I definitely will look for opportunities to have some prior interactions (ideally friendly ones? :D) with other PCs. The whole "team thrown together" trope can get worn out, although in certain APs that is how things start.
I've been running my RoW campaign for a looooong time now, and I don't intend to quit, although there have been times when it has lain fallow for a bit.
I certainly agree that if you want to run a mechanically complex character (alchemist? summoner?) in PbP, you have to be of the kind of mindset that can handle it. Kineticist and sorcerer is more my speed. Simple, but flavorful, as Talindra mentioned. I have deep respect for those who can manage their spellbooks and formulae!
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Not very many votes at all today, just an amended vote and one new entry. Will see if there is any more traction tomorrow. I am out of town till Monday, but will have access to post mainly at night. Should close the voting Saturday night, and post the results (and perhaps get the Recruitment threads started) on Sunday.
I think Talindra captures what I am thinking quite well. No need to think about brilliant exposition during melee combat, but in this medium there is usually preparation time (which you may not have during tabletop play) during character or NPC interactions to develop character & narrative towards a purpose, and that's what I am looking for. We will discuss more in the Recruitment threads.
Runelords 2
Crimson Throne 9
Reign of Winter 8
Iron Gods 11
Tyrant's 1
(Write in votes: Wicked 2, 1st ed D%D 2)
Age of Ashes 3
Kingmaker 14
Strength 9
Frozen Flame 2
Sky King 1
know what? screw it, changing my vote from reign of winter to iron gods. have a character concept that'd work well for both (assuming you allow a rare witch patron, that is).
changing my vote from kingmaker to strength of thousands as well; i just remembered my kingmaker concept i was going to import is uh. physically impossible in 2e. so yeah
Strength of Thousands looks cool. It's always nice to push against...tropes...for Mwangi, you know?
I'm going to stay firm on Reign of Winter, but would switching to Strength of Thousands for my othet vote be okay?
Peer pressure! Fine, I’ll switch to Strength of Thousands as well. Who cares about the River Kingdoms anyhow?
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I am supportive of a recruitment model that asks of players to put in a little more than a quick link to hero lab.
GM is, after all, volunteering to run the game for years assuming all the chemistries balance.
(But! This GM in particular went MIA suddenly in recent memory and abandoned a couple campaigns - what reasonable assurances do we have that that is less likely to happen again!?)
=)
Peer pressure! Fine, I’ll switch to Strength of Thousands as well. Who cares about the River Kingdoms anyhow?
I care, that's who :P
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The voting is now closed. Final vote totals are below, including several who changed their votes. Probably went down a slippery slope allowing votes to be changed once cast, but those amended votes really decided both the elections.
Runelords 2
Crimson Throne 9
Reign of Winter 7
Iron Gods 12
Tyrant's 1
(Write in votes: Wicked 2, 1st ed D%D 2)
Age of Ashes 3
Kingmaker 11
Strength 12
Frozen Flame 2
Sky King 1
It appears the games selected will be Iron Gods from the 1E APs and Strength of Thousands from the 2e APs. It's a little awkward since I brought by hardcover Kingmaker on the trip this weekend, and already started preparing it. Serves me right for trying to predict the will of the electorate....
Since I am traveling, I may get the official Recruitment threads up for the games tomorrow, or it may have to wait till I get home Monday afternoon. Either way, you can start thinking about PCs for either or both -- worry less about game mechanics (to the point they aren't required to determine history/Characteristics/abilities etc., and worry more about depth of story, background, motivation, and what makes a good roleplaying character.
I may not even ask for crunches until final players are selected....Either way, thanks for playing along with me, and for the ensuing discussion. It seems like there is a lot of love for Kingmaker, so its possible that becomes my next game eventually (though I am early in playing one right now).
Darn I too was getting excited for KM
If our GM will allow a race from BattleZoo, I have an idea for an INT/WIS based Sphynx investigator, for SoaT