Question About the Spell "Secluded Grimoire"


Rules Questions


I feel like I should already know the answer to this, but just in case I don't, is the effect of the spell permanent or does the caster have recast it once their spellbook is retrieved? For reference, here's the relevant text of the spell:

EFFECT
Range touch
Target spellbook touched
Duration instantaneous

This spell sends a spellbook into a random but safe location on the Ethereal Plane, where it remains indefinitely. When you cast this spell, the target spellbook dissolves into quickly fading lines of energy and runes that reflect all of the spells stored within. Thereafter, you can retrieve the spellbook by concentrating as a standard action, causing it to reappear in your hands. You cannot cast this spell on another spellbook if you currently have a spellbook in the Ethereal Plane. No other creatures or objects accompany the spellbook you send away, and the duration of any spells currently affecting the spellbook continue normally.


I'm under the impression that you will need to recast the spell every time you try to send your spellbook to some place safe (as described in the spell).


OmniMage wrote:
I'm under the impression that you will need to recast the spell every time you try to send your spellbook to some place safe (as described in the spell).

That's what I thought, too. I just wanted to make sure I was using it correctly. Until just a few months ago I hadn't been a player in nearly 40 years of perma-DMing. I created a Fighter to play in my friend's campaign but we're going to be losing our arcane caster in August. I didn't want to dual class my character with a full on Wizard, Sorcer, or Arcanist, but Magus instead. I figured being able to stash a spellbook in the Ethereal Plane would be safer than lugging it around to get fireballed...lol

Liberty's Edge

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It is Istantaneous, so it works once and moves your spellbook to the Ethereal plane while giving you the ability to recall it.
After you recall it, the spell hasn't any further effect.

Useful for a backup spellbook, but less useful for the one you use regularly.


Diego Rossi wrote:

It is Istantaneous, so it works once and moves your spellbook to the Ethereal plane while giving you the ability to recall it.

After you recall it, the spell hasn't any further effect.

Useful for a backup spellbook, but less useful for the one you use regularly.

Which is likely how I'll use it. I haven't played a caster of any sort as a PC in so long I've sort of forgotten all of it.


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Secluded Grimoire:C1 is Dur:Inst so it is a one shot spell ending when you recall the book.
On practicality Secluded Grimoire is useless, just don't bother learning it. Mag Armr, Shield, Infrnl Heal, Coin Shot, Grav Bow are more important.

ADVICE:
Between a Handy Haversack, then around 10-12th a Blessed Book and copies of your originals as backups (selling off your originals) it is just not needed.
If you're worried about someone pilfering your spellbook, no problem! Create a fake using Arcane Mark and clearly label it "Awesome Spell Book" and put some illuminations and impressive sayings in it along with a sepia snake sigil on page 3 and an explosive rune on pg 42. Label your actual one as "Grandma Goblins Cactus Recipes and Daily Ablutions", "Vogon Poetry Omnibus for Lovers", or "The Many Uses of Rocks in Camping" and have the first couple of pages filled with nopalitoes and garden snail recipes in common, the spells will be in draconic, elven or azlanti so they're not readable by most folks. Once you learn a spell making a copy only costs half the usual scribe cost.
The price of spells (access) is zero(from a friend) or 0.5*scribe cost from an NPC. DO NOT COPY FROM SCROLLS.

Wiz11 build advice 11/2023
check out my Mage-killer build(Flowing monk 2, Wiz-Divnr X) and Clr 1, Wiz-Divnr X build.
see Items that can save you thread
BondObj amulet usually goes; aegis of recovery(CL=3), amulet of spell cunning(7), amulet spell mastery(11).


Azothath wrote:

Secluded Grimoire:C1 is Dur:Inst so it is a one shot spell ending when you recall the book.

On practicality Secluded Grimoire is useless, just don't bother learning it. Mag Armr, Shield, Infrnl Heal, Coin Shot, Grav Bow are more important.

ADVICE:
Between a Handy Haversack, then around 10-12th a Blessed Book and copies of your originals as backups (selling off your originals) it is just not needed.
If you're worried about someone pilfering your spellbook, no problem! Create a fake using Arcane Mark and clearly label it "Awesome Spell Book" and put some illuminations and impressive sayings in it along with a sepia snake sigil on page 3 and an explosive rune on pg 42. Label your actual one as "Grandma Goblins Cactus Recipes and Daily Ablutions", "Vogon Poetry Omnibus for Lovers", or "The Many Uses of Rocks in Camping" and have the first couple of pages filled with nopalitoes and garden snail recipes in common, the spells will be in draconic, elven or azlanti so they're not readable by most folks. Once you learn a spell making a copy only costs half the usual scribe cost.
The price of spells (access) is zero(from a friend) or 0.5*scribe cost from an NPC. DO NOT COPY FROM SCROLLS.

Wiz11 build advice 11/2023

Thanks!! Magic items, even smaller ones like the Haversack, might or might not be readily available. I don't know what the DM's view on magic item availability is, considering we've only had two sessions so far.
check out my Mage-killer build(Flowing monk 2, Wiz-Divnr X) and Clr 1, Wiz-Divnr X build.
see Items that can save you thread
BondObj amulet usually goes; aegis of recovery(CL=3), amulet of spell cunning(7), amulet spell mastery(11).


Azothath wrote:

Secluded Grimoire:C1 is Dur:Inst so it is a one shot spell ending when you recall the book.

On practicality Secluded Grimoire is useless, just don't bother learning it. Mag Armr, Shield, Infrnl Heal, Coin Shot, Grav Bow are more important.

ADVICE:
Between a Handy Haversack, then around 10-12th a Blessed Book and copies of your originals as backups (selling off your originals) it is just not needed.
If you're worried about someone pilfering your spellbook, no problem! Create a fake using Arcane Mark and clearly label it "Awesome Spell Book" and put some illuminations and impressive sayings in it along with a sepia snake sigil on page 3 and an explosive rune on pg 42. Label your actual one as "Grandma Goblins Cactus Recipes and Daily Ablutions", "Vogon Poetry Omnibus for Lovers", or "The Many Uses of Rocks in Camping" and have the first couple of pages filled with nopalitoes and garden snail recipes in common, the spells will be in draconic, elven or azlanti so they're not readable by most folks. Once you learn a spell making a copy only costs half the usual scribe cost.
The price of spells (access) is zero(from a friend) or 0.5*scribe cost from an NPC. DO NOT COPY FROM SCROLLS.

Wiz11 build advice 11/2023

check out my Mage-killer build(Flowing monk 2, Wiz-Divnr X) and Clr 1, Wiz-Divnr X build.
see Items that can save you thread
BondObj amulet usually goes; aegis of recovery(CL=3), amulet of spell cunning(7), amulet spell mastery(11).

Thanks!! Magic items, even smaller ones like the Haversack, might or might not be readily available. I don't know what the DM's view on magic item availability is, considering we've only had two sessions so far.


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it's a poor GM that goes after your gear, quite frankly it's way too much book keeping.

considering you only get 2 free spells each level, this is not one I would waste that slot on. as mentioned, it won't take very long to have the right gear to hide it in.

Liberty's Edge

Spells can be brought for a small sum if you copy them.

@Azothath
RAW you don't write spells in a normal language, you write them in a "special" language common to all races, something like a mathematical formula.
That said, I do like you. The spell description in a spellbook is written in one of the multiple languages of the world (probably with notations about the inks needed to make a scroll of it or how it works in unusual situations like underwater) with diagrams and a math-like formula that summarise the and gestures, material manipulation and words of activation. Deciphering the spell still requires making the Spellcraft check as the formula contains the most important part of the instructions.
Scrolls are essentially the formula alone, written with inks that store the energy needed to cast the spell and replace the material and focus components.

CRB wrote:

Arcane Magical Writings

To record an arcane spell in written form, a character uses complex notation that describes the magical forces involved in the spell. The writer uses the same system no matter what her native language or culture. However, each character uses the system in his own way. Another person’s
magical writing remains incomprehensible to even the most powerful wizard until he takes time to study and decipher it.
To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in another’s spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell’s level). If the skill check fails, the character cannot attempt to read that particular spell again until the next day. A read magic spell automatically deciphers magical writing without a skill check. If the person who created the magical writing is on hand to help the reader, success is also automatic.

@TxSam88

Only if it is "rogue come, spellbook disappears".
Sunder is a combat maneuver and sometimes it is the right way to go.
Handy haversacks and bags of holding have very few hit points and often valuable stuff in them. Slashing one and grabbing what seems valuable can be a valid choice for opponents who have little chance of surviving a head-on fight.
Depriving a wizard of his spellbook, as long as he has a fair chance of defending it, is a good way to weaken him, and taking precautions against that is a good idea.


I've considered making a magic spellbook that is enchanted with this spell, but I don't know if its worth the cost. I think this spell is best used by spell casters that are mid to high level as they can spare the low level spell slots.


OmniMage wrote:
I've considered making a magic spellbook that is enchanted with this spell, but I don't know if its worth the cost. I think this spell is best used by spell casters that are mid to high level as they can spare the low level spell slots.

mid/high level mages have way better ways of protecting their books.


Thanks, everyone!! The advice and input are very much appreciated. Now I have some pondering to do!

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