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I'm wondering if there is a way to make something like the character in this picture tenable?
At first glance, the weapons she's holding look like triggerbrands but from what I've read in the most current Gunslinger guide I can find, triggerbrand is generally best used with a free hand, and the actual WAY of the Triggerbrand generally seems to assume you're using a singular weapon, the gunsword being the most efficient.
So do I use something like the Way of the Pistolero and just attach bayonets to both pistols? Yes, air repeaters make action economy much easier but I'd rather avoid them for the purposes of immersion: Guns & Gears states they're largely an Arcadian invention, which means if you're playing in Alkenstar, you'll have to do a lot of explaining to your GM, either about how you got them or why you're an Arcadian on the other side of the world.
Drifter.
You make a melee attack and then reload your gun in one fluid movement. Strike an opponent within reach with your one-handed melee weapon (or, if your other hand is empty, with an unarmed attack), and then Interact to reload. You don't need a free hand to reload in this way.
And maybe a rapier pistol.
Mostly make sure it's a "firearm" and you'll get your better proficiency even in melee.
And bayonets are in the knife group. (Assuming I have the rules right).
Drifter.
You make a melee attack and then reload your gun in one fluid movement. Strike an opponent within reach with your one-handed melee weapon (or, if your other hand is empty, with an unarmed attack), and then Interact to reload. You don't need a free hand to reload in this way.
And maybe a rapier pistol.
Mostly make sure it's a "firearm" and you'll get your better proficiency even in melee.
And bayonets are in the knife group. (Assuming I have the rules right).
Unfortunately, the melee half of all combination weapons have a different proficiency group from the ranged half, so singular expertise means no amount of shenanigans will get you legendary proficiency with the melee half of a combination weapon as a gunslinger.
I agree Drifter is the way to go, though. In fact I'm pretty sure they used a bayonet drifter as the pregenerated drifter for the Headshot the Rot adventure.
Drifter with Reloading Strike would work, but you specifically have to make a Melee Strike in order to reload your weapons.
I think the more important key feat is Dual-Weapon Reload. Then you can reload one of your weapons for one action with no additional requirements.
Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that it combines with things like Running Reload, Risky Reload, or other reload abilities.
There is Ostentatious Reload as well, but it is uncommon.
Drifter.
You make a melee attack and then reload your gun in one fluid movement. Strike an opponent within reach with your one-handed melee weapon (or, if your other hand is empty, with an unarmed attack), and then Interact to reload. You don't need a free hand to reload in this way.
And maybe a rapier pistol.
Mostly make sure it's a "firearm" and you'll get your better proficiency even in melee.
And bayonets are in the knife group. (Assuming I have the rules right).
Unfortunately, the melee half of all combination weapons have a different proficiency group from the ranged half, so singular expertise means no amount of shenanigans will get you legendary proficiency with the melee half of a combination weapon as a gunslinger.
I agree Drifter is the way to go, though. In fact I'm pretty sure they used a bayonet drifter as the pregenerated drifter for the Headshot the Rot adventure.
well, it's not like making an attack at normal proficiency is bad.
Am I reading it right that combination weapon takes an action to switch modes, but a bayonet do not?
Am I reading it right that combination weapon takes an action to switch modes, but a bayonet do not?
Yes. The bit of a tradeoff being that the attached weapons are considered separate weapons for things like weapon runes and such. It is a bit of a gray area if you can make it work with Thaumaturge Implement's Empowerment - but that likely isn't relevant to the character builds being discussed on this thread.
So do I use something like the Way of the Pistolero and just attach bayonets to both pistols? Yes, air repeaters make action economy much easier but I'd rather avoid them for the purposes of immersion: Guns & Gears states they're largely an Arcadian invention, which means if you're playing in Alkenstar, you'll have to do a lot of explaining to your GM, either about how you got them or why you're an Arcadian on the other side of the world.
Looking at them, the things she's got are pistols with large, integrated bayonets. There's no transforming involved.
Also, from the looks of things, her pistols are single-shot.
I note that you could take Thaumaturge dedication, and then ammunition thaumaturgy. That would let you reload at least one of your weapons without real trouble... though I wouldn't suggest that kind of shenanigans unless you were Free Archetype, and possibly not even then. This character really does look like one that would benefit from Dual Weapon Warrior, after all.
Or ask your GM to use Automatic Bonus Progression.
So Drifter, Dual-Weapon Reload, and focus on pistols with bayonets and be prepared to pay through the nose for them since this isn't just two weapons' worth of runes but two Blazons of Shared Power as well?
You could conceivably replace one of the blazons with a set of doubling rings, but other than that, yes.
Or ask your GM to use Automatic Bonus Progression.
That would make this a lot more feasible.
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So Drifter, Dual-Weapon Reload, and focus on pistols with bayonets and be prepared to pay through the nose for them since this isn't just two weapons' worth of runes but two Blazons of Shared Power as well?You could conceivably replace one of the blazons with a set of doubling rings, but other than that, yes.
Or ask your GM to use Automatic Bonus Progression.That would make this a lot more feasible.
I'm continually frustrated with being inspired by cool pictures only to find the game rules make replicating them more trouble than it's worth. >:(
I'm continually frustrated with being inspired by cool pictures only to find the game rules make replicating them more trouble than it's worth. >:(
It might be worth considering what it would take to build that kind of character in other systems. Like, you could manage it reasonably well in GURPS or Champions or something, but in a lot of game systems, the stuff that we find awkward and/or more trouble than it's worth here would be downright impossible.
Still, fair. I've definitely had some wacky character idea wind up at the "We are... so close" point a few different times.
I'm continually frustrated with being inspired by cool pictures only to find the game rules make replicating them more trouble than it's worth. >:(
Unfortunate sort of design conceit of PF2 that for a lot of fringe concepts they'd rather enable them poorly (so it's technically possible, but a horrible idea) than risk them becoming relevant or powerful.
I'm continually frustrated with being inspired by cool pictures only to find the game rules make replicating them more trouble than it's worth. >:(It might be worth considering what it would take to build that kind of character in other systems. Like, you could manage it reasonably well in GURPS or Champions or something, but in a lot of game systems, the stuff that we find awkward and/or more trouble than it's worth here would be downright impossible.
Still, fair. I've definitely had some wacky character idea wind up at the "We are... so close" point a few different times.
Two weapon fighting doesn't hold up well in most games. Even GURPS needs you to take a bunch of options like Ambidextrous to pull it off.
Two weapon fighting doesn't hold up well in most games. Even GURPS needs you to take a bunch of options like Ambidextrous to pull it off.
Yeah... but in GURPS you can stat everythign out in, like, five different ways. So you can do two-weapon fighting through the standard "wield weapon" techniques, or you can make it two identical linked blast attacks that require you to be holding your guns, or you can... you get the idea.
The point is that outside of that kind of game, "I want to dual-wield pistols that are also shortswords" is the kind of thing that usually isn't available at all.
...and lets be real here - the reloading issues are at least partially because the idea of the woman in that picture reloading those things in the middle of a fight is kind of silly on the face of it.
..and lets be real here - the reloading issues are at least partially because the idea of the woman in that picture reloading those things in the middle of a fight is kind of silly on the face of it.
I don't see it as any more silly than wiggling your fingers and having a sheet of flame come out.