Bloodline Familiar question


Rules Questions


Is the Bloodline Familiar option limited only to the bloodlines listed or can a sorcerer of any bloodline take bloodline familiar?

If a sorcerer of a different bloodline than those listed takes bloodline familiar does the GM have to create a special effect for that familiar?

What ability would you give a bloodline familiar for a sorcerer of the Shapechanger Bloodline?

Working on a half-elf Razmiran priest sorcerer with the shapechanger bloodline and I’m considering bloodline familiar.


Bloodline Familiars and there's a list of bloodlines that can take this option. Shapechanger bloodline is not on the list. A PC chooses a regular animal Familiar and then it gains the listed bloodline familiar ability.
I'll note you can only have a Familiar or Bonded Object, not both.

A Home Game GM can create an option that's not in RAW but it is a Home Game rule for his game. GMs may use the following bloodline familiar abilities as written, or employ them as guidelines for devising bloodline familiar abilities for bloodlines not listed below.

ADVICE
Familiars in a martial focused higher level game are more of a liability than asset. A Bonded Object gains in value with caster level.


Quote:
At 1st level, a sorcerer, bloodrager, or any other character with one of the following bloodlines can choose to gain a bloodline familiar.

Officially, it's locked to only the listed bloodlines. But this is probably one of the easier things to homebrew.

Shapechanger? My gut reaction is to give them the ability to "change shape(su)" into one other form allowed as a base familiar. Whatever ability is chosen, it's meant to be pretty minor as just getting a familiar is the primary purpose of that option.


Azothath wrote:

Bloodline Familiars and there's a list of bloodlines that can take this option. Shapechanger bloodline is not on the list. A PC chooses a regular animal Familiar and then it gains the listed bloodline familiar ability.

I'll note you can only have a Familiar or Bonded Object, not both.

A Home Game GM can create an option that's not in RAW but it is a Home Game rule for his game. GMs may use the following bloodline familiar abilities as written, or employ them as guidelines for devising bloodline familiar abilities for bloodlines not listed below.

ADVICE
Familiars in a martial focused higher level game are more of a liability than asset. A Bonded Object gains in value with caster level.

1: How would I go about getting a bonded object on this character?

2: Wouldn’t a familiar be better for a support caster like this that stays away from the front lines?


You'll find a lot of opinions on familiars. They can make fine scouts and some can serve other purposes like using wands, especially if you decide to take improved familiar.

A bonded object is really as much of a potential liability, as it can be taken or destroyed and you are way more impacted than if a familiar dies. You can take precautions to protect either, but also most GMs won't ever go after either.

You can get a bonded object with the arcane bloodline, but it's not that amazing for a sorcerer. One extra spell of your highest spell level, where you will often already be able to cast 4+ of those per day.


ADVICE
as mentioned the Arcane bloodline, which is one of the better bloodline for dedicated casters
An extra spell of any spell you can cast is awesome. You can always shoot off a highest level spell, that's a fireball:K3, or dragon's breath:k4, or hold monster:E5...
With this bloodline you'll want INT at 12 or better.

You should look at the class guides on ZG for sorcerers. Razmiran Priest Sorcerer archetype, then Razmirian (False) Priest PrC(Prestige Class) are a bit tricky and you need skills which means INT. A familiar might give you away (it would be a rare Cleric with a familiar) but a magician's assistant is handy. You will also find threads in the Advice forum on how to build a Razmiran Priest.


So the reason for the shapechanger bloodline is for Mutable Flesh with Paragon Surge and a Ring of Continuation and Emergency Attunement so I can have access to any feat or spell I need at a moment’s notice so unfortunately I can’t choose the Arcane or Sage Bloodlines.


Regardless, you will have to enter homebrew territory for a shapechanger bloodline familiar. I'm not sure if you'd get a better response for ideas in the homebrew section. Hopefully your GM will be open to whatever homebrew you come up with. But keep in mind the bloodline bonus is intended to be fairly minor and focused on the familiar instead of the master.


Understood thank you.


As it happens Razmiran Priest and Crossblooded Sorcerer are archetypes that can stack with each other. This would give you a second bloodline that you could choose from one of the approved bloodlines. Not sure if this interests you but there you go.


So Half-Elf Crossblooded Esoteric Draconic Shapechanger Razmiran Priest with a Bloodline Familiar?


That might work, but is questionable for stacking. Crossblooded alters the bloodline power and the bloodline familiar replaces a bloodline power. You can run it by your GM, and many would probably be fine with it, but RAW you can't combine those.


Technically Bloodline familiar isn’t an archetype so I see no reason why it wouldn’t be compatible. It’s just an option you can select in place of your first level power. You still get a 1st level power so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be selectable.


It doesn't matter if it's an archetype or not. The rules on stacking do start with archetypes, because that's the most common form, but it's really about "alternate class features".

But also, the archetype limitation is triggered from either direction. Bloodline familiar replaces the 1st bloodline power, which prohibits you from taking crossblooded, which alters bloodline powers.

Although the FAQ for crossblooded/wildblooded does bring up that allowing combos like this is up to "GM's purview", meaning house ruling this may not be a bad idea.


I’ll just point out that in the text of the Crossblooded archetype it describes how you choose which powers you gain from your two bloodlines it never explicitly states that any of the bloodline class features are altered or replaced. The only thing that is described as being altered is spells known. On Archives of Nethys in the overview of archetypes for sorcerer the only class feature listed as altered or replaced is Spells Known. This may be an error on their part but that’s the source I used when suggesting they would stack.


An ability doesn't have to state that it is altering an ability for the ability to count as altered. Crossblooded is actually involved in an FAQ demonstrating the problem.

https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rai

Quote:

Sorcerer, Crossblooded and Wildblooded: Can I take both of these archetypes for the same character?

No, because the archetype rules say none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the class as another alternate class feature. Because the crossblooded and wildblooded sorcerer archetypes both alter the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers, they aren't compatible archetypes.

Note that it is certainly within the GM's purview to allow this combination. However, the character should not be able to use the crossblooded archetype's ability to select a lower-level bloodline power that was replaced by the wildblooded archetype. For example, a wildblooded brutal (abyssal) sorcerer replaces "strength of the abyss" with "wings of the abyss" at 9th level; the character has "paid" for the wildblooded archetype by giving up "strength of the abyss," and can't use the crossblooded bloodline to select "strength of the abyss" as her 15th-level or 20th-level bloodline power.


It would be nice if AoN updated the Crossblooded overview to reflect this but thems the breaks. Not the only error either. I’ve noticed that the altered class features on the overview of the Agathiel Vigilante archetype doesn’t match the actual text of the archetype at all.


I'm not sure if that's technically an error. The usual text saying that an ability is altered is just reminder text and makes it easier for humans to process. If an ability is changed in some way, then it's altered.

It's probably a super common house rule to ignore these kinds of limitations, and many people will never realize it technically works the way we discussed here. And frankly, allowing these to "stack" will likely not break anyone's game, but I personally wouldn't run the combo unless I knew the GM was cool with that kind of rule bending.

This also reminds me that you probably can't take both blood havoc and crossblooded. You certainly can't replace the bloodline power. And for similar reasons, you probably can't replace a bonus feat that was also altered by the archetype.


Melkiador wrote:
And frankly, allowing these to "stack" will likely not break anyone's game, but I personally wouldn't run the combo unless I knew the GM was cool with that kind of rule bending.

Although it has a reputation for being a min-max munchkin archetype thanks to the Orc+Draconic combo, Crossblooded is actually an extremely weak archetype in almost any other situation. Being permissive with it and allowing wild blooded options is unlikely to cause any problems.


I think you need Advice or Homebrew if you are going to do more than recommend those non-RAW options as this place would become a total mess if we got into rationalizing/justifying homebrew or what we think of as fair. We already get people wanting posters here to vet their plans and offer min-max advice. I've been in the GM seat where players tell me that the Rules Forum guys told me "It was Legal" (with chat printouts), LoL, it can go either way. Having players foist the latest Developer comments (printed of course, then other players pulling out different printed comments...) as RAW was also an issue.
I'm totally there for customizing your game to your setting and theme, just not in this forum.

AoN is the official online source for PF1 rules. If the text is changed from what you have in print then it got impacted by something you're not aware of. If you find what you think is an error, do your research with FAQs and latest pubs(to catch stealth errata), then email it to them.


The more I look at it, I don’t think Razmiran Priest and Crossblooded are compatible.


Advice Forum Sorcerer archetype Razmiran Priest (Wildblooded-Sage) Arcane Bloodline at 5th & 11th level, 04/2024 thread

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