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So a figment Rhamphorhynchus gets me Fiendish Proboscus abuse as early as level 3. I’ll take that. Then I’ll retrain its feat for mounted combat and have it negate attacks on me with the skilled evolution starting at 7th level. Not too bad.


Yeah it looks like every archetype that has SLAs loses share spells. Ambassador could be combined with figment but it wouldn’t come online till 10th level.


Well at least with that I can get my +4 initiative. Loosing share spells hurts but it is what it is.


Is Chicken really the only familiar with a 10+ cha? The only real benefit to the basic magic evolution is for exploiter wizards and arcanists with the Fiendish Proboscis exploit.


Because the Figment Archetype replaces the ability “Speak with animals of its own kind” as does improved familiar. Since 2 things modifying a familiar can’t replace the same ability they aren’t compatible.


Zepheri wrote:
Whit improved familiar you can get a familiar that have charisma 10+

Unfortunately Figment isn’t compatible with improved familiar.


I was researching familiars and stumbled upon the Figment archetype and people keep mentioning taking the Basic Magic evolution. That evolution has the line "The eidolon must have a charisma score of 10 or higher to select this evolution" so my question is, How does a figment familiar even select this evolution?

https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Familiar%20Figment

https://aonprd.com/SummonerEvolutions.aspx


Azothath wrote:

we posted the 'help' and hopefully it gives direction.

A GM's job is to both curate his world and make things a bit of a challenge so the player can accomplish things. Sometimes it just takes time.
Probably it is best if you work out your home game issues off forum.

I was at a bit of a loss not knowing what to do. Posted this thread hoping to get some ideas to make good counter arguments. I appreciate all the insight you all gave me here. Sorry for causing a bit of a stir.


To be clear, I pretended to be the GM so that I didn’t seem like I was just throwing my GM under the bus and in an obligatory “my GM made this “ruling and I don’t like it” post. Also, in my discord conversation with the GM it was never actually made clear to me that I would be permitted to craft the item in question.


Azothath wrote:

Look at Special materials. Singing steel in particular.

A weapon needs to be (+1) before any weapon qualities are added.
Spell storing would be a nice addition... Holy is good but it is +2.

He would love to make the weapon out of singing steel but apparently that material is hard to find outside Tien Sha and even if you can find it you’d need a special forge to smelt work with the mythril. I should probably mention that I’m running the Kingmaker AP.


zza ni wrote:

first a note. it help if you link or copy the information you ask about.

linking here

i think one must first read the items information. even the flavor text.

there are some items that started being made by a specific religion but then spread out and can be found made by others. and others that have specific extra abilities when used by believers of a specific religion.

even some say in the items creation information that the maker must follow a specific god etc.

as for myself i would:

1 allow anyone to craft anything they can get the requirements to craft done. if he is not a follower of a specific god and the item require it then he can add +5 to the dc (or have the help of one. maker doesn't have to be the only one supplying the demands).

2. an item that has extra abilities when used by a believer of a specific religion will only allow said believers to use that ability (in some cases a UMD check with high enough dc can be substituted. again a house rule of mine). im talking about using the made item. not making it.

3. an item that is used by a specific religion but has no special powers granted to it's believers nor has a special requirement stating the belief of it's creator - can be made and used by anyone.
in some cases i might demand a knowledge religion or arcane before allowing the creator to make a very obscure item that he should not have known about without said roll.

the item in question mostly fit into the 3rd option as it say nothing about the religion of Shelyin in it's information. i rather believe this mean that while it is very common to find in the hands of believers of Sheylin -who's favored weapon is the glaive, ever since she took it from her brother, and has a thing for performance. but it's not strictly restricted to them

I like this approach. My only question is, how does the PC have the knowledge of the item he/she wants to craft or the requirements to craft said item? Does everyone just have knowledge of all magic items and their requirements?


So, I’m running a game and I’m allowing magic item crafting. One of my players wants to craft a Blade of Three Fancies which is a Shelyn specific weapon but he is a bard that doesn’t worship any deity. Would you allow the player to craft the weapon? If so, how would the PC know of the weapon and the specifics of the item’s construction? If not, what would the justification be for disallowing it?


My group have differing opinions on how these qualities are selected. My GM seems to be of the opinion that he should choose our settlement qualities for us instead of us choosing them ourselves. So I have a few questions regarding them. 1: Should the GM be choosing the settlement qualities for our kingdom? 2: Are all the qualities available for choosing at the start even if we have no buildings to support the qualities ex. Choosing holy site with No shrine temple or cathedral?


I guessed that would be the case and I needed to see that all laid out. After reading through that, I agree that Sohei is not beneficial here. I really like Zen Archer 20/ Inquisitor 20 for an archer gestalt. I like Ravener Hunter for wood bond and Sanctified Slayer archetypes.


It’s sad to see that no one is mentioning the Sohei monk as it’s the only thing in the game that can flurry with rapid shot and manyshot. I realize that doing so is very feat intensive but I still think it’s worth mentioning.


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Found it. Samsaran choosing Silksworn Occultist as the class for it's mystic past life.


Davor Firetusk wrote:
Two levels of Pathfinder Savant will let you grab a spell from any spell list and add it to Magus

Except it would be treated as a 7th level spell and thus unable to cast it.


Is it worth losing those things for the things you can do as a phantom blade?


Melkiador wrote:
I don't know of a way to do it with a magus. The spiritualist has the phantom blade archetype that is a lot like a magus. And the spiritualist has harm on its spell list.

This is true. Magus is just objectively the better class for spell combat and spellstike abilities and a better spell list to facilitate it. Was hoping to find a way to get it.


I'm looking for a way for a Magus to add Harm to it's spell list. Is there any way to do this without multiclassing or losing caster levels?


The first turn of kingdom building has you choose where to place you first settlement. Due to the time it takes to prepare the land for building it looks like no buildings can actually be built in that first kingdom turn. Is this correct?


Java Man wrote:
Yes, I'm saying that if extracts (or horoscopes) don't count as spells for being a spellcaster then they don't count as spells here either. And lacking a pq (like a spell) for crafting only raises the (terribky easy) DC by 5, so why worry?

Because the DC is raised by 5 per spell you don’t have access to. Thus if you have 3 spells you don’t know that’s +15 to the DC. At that point it’s difficult to willingly increase it by another 5 to craft twice as fast. When time is of the essence cutting crafting time down is imperative.


Java Man wrote:
According to faq an alchemist does not count as a spellcaster for taming crafting feats. A starwatcher's charts count as extracts except for specific differences listed in the archetype. So I'd say you cannot assist another character in making magic items.

The star watcher isn’t doing the crafting. He’s just providing the spells needed.


Would a Star Watcher investigator be able to provide spells for a Witch crafting a wonderous item? The star watcher does not have any crafting feats and does not have cooperative crafting. The horoscopes are keyed to specific individuals and thus cannot affect the item being crafted so that is where the issue is coming from. Any help here would be huge.


Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

So... you're looking for a quick way to generate something to pay for the crafting of magic items? Soul Gems, obviously, if that's the way you want to go. Some other options:

1. Trophies can be harvested from monsters and some of these can be used to pay for certain types of magic items

2. Downtime lets you generate Magic capital; by spending 50 GP as part of earning the Magic capital, 1 Magic capital can be spent to pay for 100 GP worth of magic item crafting costs

In the section for Trophies it says if the group is harvesting trophies the GM should lower other monetary rewards equal to the amount gained from trophies so we don’t actually get anywhere with that. Downtime however has no such caveat and we’re running Kingmaker so we’ll have plenty of downtime to generate capital so that is definitely something we will be using.


Senko wrote:

Honestly soul gem bothers me much like hellfire ray as it allows you to send a saint who's lived their entire life by their gods rules even before they were old enough to understand because it felt right to the abyss or hell with no recourse. It feels like if something like that is possible it should be limited to the greatest devils or demon lords not a CR 2 critter. Even worse this damnation is done for a mere 2 fast healing for a few rounds. Which to me kind of devalues the soul gem as this seems a pretty petty thing to use an immortal soul for.

I also have to ask why your going this route as creating a soul gem is a pretty dark act, as is demon summoning. Is this an evil party or is there something else going on?

As for the Djinn my ruling has always been the creature and anything it brings with it returns when its time is up. Anything it changes/creates however persists as per normal. For example if it planeshifts you to Elysium you remain on Elysium when it goes. If it creates wine the wine remains when it goes. If it creates a sword the sword remains for 7 hours (couldn't be bothered looking up djinni caster level so using hd) even if created right before the djinni returns to its real. If it creates a cabbage then the cabbage remains till eaten or it rots. You take its armour the armour vanishes when its summoning expires. While the being has gone what it did to the world remains. Just like if a player planeshifts to a realm and creates a sword then planeshifts away the sword remains.

So, the party is mostly neutral with the soul gem creator being the only evil PC. We have placed a restriction on that PC that only truly detestable enemies that we kill are allowed to be turned into soul gems. Also, a point of note, soul gems have 3 potential uses. 1: to be consumed for some useless fast healing. Obviously not what we’re going for. 2: to be sold in a specialized market for their value. Closer to what we’re going for but not quite. We would settle for this option. 3: crafting magic items using their value in place of gp costs for crafting. This is the optimal way and what we would prefer.


We (the players) did inform him of the plan to use summon cacodaemon to create soul gems and his response was “I don’t know if the daemon will listen to you and even if it did, I don’t know how long it takes for the soul gem to grow. The spell might time out before it’s finished.” So I was trying to find some sort of RAW answer on these things.


Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
I wish this wasn't the Rules forum. Again, the only concrete RAW answer is that Summon Cacodaemon acts as Summon Monster, and SM states only
Summon Monster I wrote:
If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

As a GM I will say that in a home game, an intelligent monster summoned for something outside of basic combat, at my tables, will respond to commands based on its alignment and the fluff built into the monster's description. A cacodaemon, summoned for 3 rounds in combat, will revel in destruction. The same cacodaemon, summoned for 3 rounds of using it's Bluff skill to distract some guards while the PCs sneak by might get a little annoyed and bite attack anyway.

I say this as a GM b/c this is how a GM can propel a narrative forward, if handled with care and panache. As far as what the rules say, there is an obvious gray area here for perfect obedience.

The cacodaemon is being summoned to create a soul gem of a killed enemy for full transparency.


So the spell description says that you can direct it if you share a language. It doesn’t explicitly state it follows that direction and some hateful DMs may take liberty with that. I was hoping for something a bit more concrete.


If a character was to cast a spell like Summon Cacodaemon, would that cacodaemon have to follow all orders given to it? Are there orders it can resist? What official sources exist that detail the level of control a summoner has over a summoned creature?


Trokarr wrote:
I probably would go with the bite. Most combats devolve into close in brawls pretty quickly. I think all that extra reach is likely to be fairly redundant once you can cast enlarge person enough times per day to cover all the encounters you will have. Once you can be large permanently even more so. One problem you are likely to face very often is that with your low dex and increasing size lowering it further is that your initiative will be very bad. Any increases you get from eidolon advancement will be negated by an increase in size. With a poor initiative you are rarely going to act early in the turn so most of the time you won’t get to take AoOs till the second turn. By then the extra reach from a reach weapon will likely be pointless. If battles take place indoors it will also likely be redundant. I think you need to increase your initiative bonus so you can act early in the sequence. I would take Improved Initiative and look for a way to gain a familiar that grants an initiative bonus as well, maybe a dip in a class with one or perhaps the Familiar Bond feat. I know there is a trait that counts as Iron Will for the purposes of this feat so you wouldn’t need to take 2 feats to get it (can’t remember off hand what it’s called though). Instead of putting extra points into the Strength Ability Increase evolution I would probably put those points into dex. The double cost for large size only applies to strength and constitution so you will get more bang for your buck that way and a few extra points of strength aren’t going to make much difference for your build.

While I do agree that the low dex and poor initiative is definitely a problem, it's not a huge problem. Combat Reflexes allows you to make AoOs while flat-footed. Though Improved Initiative is still a solid feat and a strong potential candidate here.


Should I even bother with the Fauchard? I know it has reach and trip properties which massively increases my reach but I can't help but feel that bite tripping is vastly superior since I get to deal damage, trip for free, and then attack again with greater trip feat. Is the Fauchard even worth it after the first couple levels?


I too read it that way. It does say that you count as both a your original type and an outsider and the target line in the spell enlarge person is “One humanoid creature” which you are so by RAW it should work.


*Khan* wrote:

Ok - that sounds solid.

Remember that enlarge person does not work while you are fused with your eidolon and are regarded as an outsider.
“While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor. He counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist.”

The Share Spells ability allows me to affect my eidolon with spells even if its type would not normally be allowed to be targeted. We just went through this earlier in the thread.


*Khan* wrote:

Which level do you start at?

This kind of SAD build with lots of dips is usually not playable from level 1.

This character will start at level 1. Starting as a Synthesist summoner at level 1 and dumping my physical stats because I’ll just be constantly melded with my eidolon. Starting every combat with enlarge person for large size with the Fauchard keeping things at a distance. Level 2 and 3 would be High Guardian fighter to get combat reflexes and key my bonus AoOs off my strength score. Levels 4-15 would be Synthesist summoner again getting large and huge size at 10 and 15 respectively. It only really needs 2 high scores Strength and Charisma. The eidolon gives me high physical stats and my own mental stats are really good.


I miss 3.5. Sadly no one I know wants to go anywhere near that system anymore.


Wonderstell, thank you for filling out the remainder of my feats. I was looking for a way to get those feats on this character since long range weapons are this guy’s Achilles heel.


There are three different sentences there. The second sentence does not state it is dependent on the first. There’s actually an FAQ that explains how this works.

https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9obd


Ah, I was unaware it was handled like that. I guess with the now 15 levels in summoner and 12 of them choosing the half elf fcb I’ll have 23 evo points so I can only get 2 ability increases. Oh well.


Trokarr wrote:
I was thinking more about your build and something seemed off to me. On closer inspection I noticed you miscalculated the number of evolution points your build would cost. From what I see it would cost 26 points for that build. I think you may have forgotten or not noticed that the ability score increase costs double for large or huge size eidolons. This would account for the discrepancy. Also I noticed this “He counts both as his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist.” Since you now count as an Outsider while fused you no longer are a valid target for Enlarge Person as this spell only targets Humanoids. This means that the earliest you could be large sized would be 8th lvl. If you multiclass it will be even later. Not sure if this busts your build but it will complicate things.

I’m not sure if that tax is applied retroactively to evolutions purchased prior to getting large size.

Share Spells (Ex)

The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list. This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells.


Trokarr wrote:
Being permanently huge is likely to cause some issues with squeezing. When indoors, even if you have a 15 foot wide space to walk in you also need to have 15 ft ceilings or you will be squeezing that way as well. A 2 lvl dip in Vigilante will allow you to take the Malleable Flesh talent that will give you the Compression monster ability.

This is a major concern for this build. I’d probably just drop the bloodrager for 2 levels in vigilante and then 2 levels in something else. Any suggestions for an archetype?


Trokarr wrote:
Arms of the Marilith can give you 4 more AoOs per round. However they take up the shoulder slot so no cloak of resistance and not sure how much reach they would have, probably equal to your natural reach I would think.

I’m not really hurting for attacks of opportunity each round. By my calculations the character should have like 20 or more each round. A level 13 huge biped eidolon with 3 ability increase evolutions has a str score of 45. Add a +5 manual and a +6 belt and we’re up to a whopping 56 str score. Enlarge for another +2 for 58. That’s 25 AoOs per turn. Add in rage and mutagen and we get 29. If that’s not enough then we have bigger problems lol.


I’ll definitely make sure to get it


Ryze Kuja wrote:

Get combat reflexes and a Fortuitous enchant on your Fauchard. Now you get two AoO's when you Greater Trip them, and another AoO when they get up from prone.

You could also consider getting Outflank and Seize the Moment if you have other martials in your group, and talk them into getting crit-fishing weapons with 15-20 crit range and those teamwork feats as well. You and your martial allies will become a blender of AoO's any time you crit or trip.

The extra AoO from a Fortuitous weapon is only 1 per round right? And the High Guardian fighter archetype gives combat reflexes and keys it off of str instead of dex.


Half Elf Synthesist Summoner 13/High Guardian Mutagenic Warrior Fighter 3/Abberant Bloodrager 4

Str 7
Dex 8
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 20

Feats:
1st: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Fauchard)
3rd: Dirty Fighting
5th: Improved Trip
7th: Greater Trip
9th: Dodge
11th: Mobility
13: Combat Patrol
15th: Open
17th: Open
19th: Open

Eidolon: Biped 20 evolution points
Evolutions: Huge Size, Bite, Trip, Reach (bite), Ability Increase (Strength)x3

End result is a huge synthesist that can be enlarged for a 20ft natural reach. Doubled with a reach weapon to 40ft. With an alchemist with the infusion discovery he can get Fluid Form for another 10ft getting me to 50ft. With long arm it’s another 5ft so 55ft. 4 levels of aberrant bloodrager is another 5 ft while raging for 60. Combat Patrol adds another 15ft for a grand total of 75ft of reach. Eidolon has an absurd strength score which grants a ton of AoOs for a ton of tripping. Is it worth it? Should I just forgo the fauchard and just trip with the bite since it deals damage and then I get to attack again with greater trip? Are the 4 levels of aberrant bloodrager worth it since I only get the extended reach while raging and 4 levels doesn’t really give enough rounds per day to last all day? Any advice on improving this build? The stats listed are just the base stats and are open to switch around.


The 2e AP now goes from 1 to 20 with all the added content. They also took inspiration from the game and feedback to change how a lot of interactions work and interact. They also created a conversion for 1e.

Unfortunately this Cleric player is very difficult and it took a serious amount of convincing just to get him to change his deity from Aesocar. He will absolutely refuse to change his class and archetype. I’m glad will still work out but yeah the Witch and Spiritualist decided to go light on healing because of the cleric.


So it turns out we’re getting a 6th party member and that one is planning on being a Half-Orc Abyssal bloodline battlerager. That should solve our big damage issue. Any other weaknesses in the party?


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This too is a concern of mine. Which character would have the least impact if switched out and what would you recommend swapping in to deal the damage?


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So we're getting ready to run Kingmaker and our DM has decided to use the new 2E Kingmaker campaign and convert it to 1E for us to run. Our current party is as follows:

Human Bard - Ruler
Sylph Ashiftah Witch - Magister
Human Merciful Healer Cleric - Treasurer
Sylph Star Watcher Investigator - Spymaster
Nagaji Priest of the Fallen Spiritualist - Marshal

Thoughts? Is this a well balanced party? Are the any pitfalls in this group that would be of major concern?


Claxon wrote:

Keep in mind bane is only 2d6 damage while judgements (at 8th level) can allow you to run bonuses to attack and damage (and arguably this scales better than the magus arcane pool), although you wont get keen.

Unless you find that you're hitting on like 5+ on d20 rolls, I tend to value increasing my attack roll.

Anyways, you're not unleashing a big attack until round 3 by which time combat is probably going to over, depending on how the other players do things.

Bane treats the weapon’s enhancement bonus as 2 higher when attacking the creature type chosen so it adds +2 to hit and damage as well as 2d6 additional damage.

I would hope that at +23 would hit most things a lvl 7 character would be fighting.

This is true but we’ll have to see how they end up building their characters.

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