Pricing magic items is an art, not a science. Functionally one user really doesn't make more than 1 craft check per day, so this might as well be a permanent +5 bonus to any craft skill. So it should be priced as a +5 skill bonus item.
Pricing magic items is an art, not a science. Functionally one user really doesn't make more than 1 craft check per day, so this might as well be a permanent +5 bonus to any craft skill. So it should be priced as a +5 skill bonus item.
Maybe make a wand instead.
Can't make a wand, I need to give that item to a PNG with only crafting skill.
The first rule for evaluating the price of custom magic items is: "Check the existing magic item for something that does the same thing."
The effect of Crafter’s Fortune is a +5 luck bonus to a Crafting check.
As most crafter checks are done once a day, it is the equivalent of a permanent luck bonus for crafting checks.
The table shows the cost of a competence bonus, which is significantly less good than a luck bonus (plenty of stuff gives competence bonuses and you can't stack them, while a luck bonus stacks with most common effects). A +5 competence bonus costs 5x5x100=2,500 gp.
Then, if the item doesn't require to be worn to work or if it doesn't use one of the body slots the price is doubled.
All things included, if the item needs to be worn to work it would cost something like 3,000 gp. If it isn't worn something like 6,000 gp.
Like others point out, you have to value it at the effect it does, which in this case is a +5 luck bonus to a single skill, Craft (and a specific Craft, I would say).
First off, the easiest thing to do would be to make it a potion. A potion of crafter's fortune (CL 1) would be 50 gp (25 to make). It lasts 1 day until discharged and is a +5 bonus on the next Craft check. Just getting that out of the way. Since you want a permanent item, then you need to start making calls.
Space Saver:
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Bearing in mind, we don't know what the item is; Is it a tool? Like a masterwork tool that would already by giving a +2 circumstance bonus, like an amazing tool of manufacture? Or is it like a headband of vast intelligence that gives a number of skill ranks in a skill based on the wearer's hit dice? Or is it like a cloak of elvenkind that is worn and grants a skill increase?
1. A headband of vast intelligence +2 costs 4,000 gp, gives the wearer a +2 Intelligence bonus and adds ranks in a specific skill (in this case Craft ([specific]) not an issue, since you'd put the skill you want there).
Pros: The Int bonus is a +1 bonus to Craft by itself. Then it grants skill ranks are linked to the wearer's level (after 24 hours), which can be more than 5.
Cons: If the wearer is level 1, 2, or 3, they'll be getting a bonus less than +5.
Neutral factors would be that it's competence and not luck and that the skill ranks it grants don't stack with ones the wearer already has. This is only an issue if the character has max ranks already, so in some cases it would be better to give it to someone with no ranks in that Craft skill.
I think in almost all cases, this would be the best choice. It's already known, already priced, and should work (other than the luck bonus). If not, I think it sets a good baseline for price and cost, before accounting for whether your nebulous, ambiguous item is slotless, grants luck bonus, works on all Craft skills, etc.
2. A competence bonus on an item would be bonus squared (5x5) x 100, like a cloak of elvenkind. Luck isn't listed for skills, but we can see a general trend of non-standard or 'other' bonuses being at least double the cost (sometimes 2.5x). So we could estimate an item granting a +5 luck bonus should cost 5,000 gp (to a specific Class skill). That's if takes a slot, and it has to be an appropriate or reasonable slot. Since we don't know the Craft skill you want, a headband (for Alchemy or trapmaking or chemistry/apothecary stuff) or gloves (for weapon or armor making or sculpting, etc.) would likely work. Craft (blacksmithing) could be a girdle or apron. Otherwise double it if it were like an ioun stone floating around their head or just nearby on the workbench.
Now, if I wanted to customize a headband of vast intelligence +2 to where it granted a luck bonus, I would probably half the cost of the skill increase to 2,500 and add that to the 4,000 (which is based on Ability increase), making it 6,500 (maybe 7,000). Obviously half that to craft. The only minor issue is that you can then stack it with masterwork tools, so I might lean towards 7,000 gp.
The reason I am not doubling or adding 1.5x to the price for making it a luck bonus ability is that the item already accounts for a skill increase (competence) and changing it to a luck bonus (while better and requires higher cost) is not like actually adding a new ability to the already priced item.
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So, allegedly, in my opinion, 5,000 gp unless it's slotless, then double. But others can disagree. Also note, this would just be a bonus to all those Craft checks, not just one per day. You're going to have to pay for the assumption that a once per day Craft check is going to be as useful as a 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 times per day anyway, since characters are rarely expected to make more than one (maybe in place of a Knowledge check for looking at a Craft tool or workspace), so may as well just go with the all-the-time bonus.
If it is a gift to an NPC artisan to get him to like you, I, as a GM (knowing that I am bending the rules a bit) would allow a set of tools for his job with a +5 competence bonus at 2,500 gp sale price.
Sure, they don't use slots on the artisan body, but they would occupy his and (and probably part of his work table) when in use, so the benefit of not using slots is negligible.
The 360 price tag, instead, is one of the distortions in the system. Using the table without the first step can generate a lot of them.
Ok for the "distortion in the system", but 3000gp? 5000? For an item that cast a single lvl 1 spell (CL1)?
To me it seems that while I was exaggerating on one side, you are exaggerating on the other side.
Anyway I solved that by asking to my GM to have the NPC cast that freaking spell (NPC caster level 3).
Ok for the "distortion in the system", but 3000gp? 5000? For an item that cast a single lvl 1 spell (CL1)?
To me it seems that while I was exaggerating on one side, you are exaggerating on the other side.
Anyway I solved that by asking to my GM to have the NPC cast that freaking spell (NPC caster level 3).
Let's make an example:
- masterwork tools +2;
- item giving a +5 competence bonus: +5;
- your item, +5 luck bonus.
Our artisan, with probably 3 rank in the right crating skill, and a +1 for stats, instead of having a +7 has a +19. 271% of the base value.
What should he get when his level increases? +27 at level 5?
Check the DC of making items.
I am waiting for the next "shirt that cast Armor 1/day" thread.
Ok for the "distortion in the system", but 3000gp? 5000? For an item that cast a single lvl 1 spell (CL1)?
To me it seems that while I was exaggerating on one side, you are exaggerating on the other side.
No one is exaggerating (we may vary on exact cost), but the mechanics, rules, and stated intentions are that items are priced according to their effectiveness. I was very clear that making a potion of crafter's fortune (CL 1) would be 50 gp. (25 to make). A scroll would be half that (but can't be used by everyone).
The issue is that you are making a wondrous item that functions effectively as a spell-in-a-can. Which is taking the role and function and de-valuing the brew potion, scribe scroll, craft wand and craft staff item creation feats. This is something that has been explicitly stated as not being intended or desirable. As such, there should be a cost, otherwise everyone would just take Craft Wondrous Item and not need anything else because they keep contorting custom items to perform those duties.
So, yes, casting the spell would be very cheap. A permanent item that adds a luck bonus (which stacks with masterwork tools), is different enough to cause such a valuation (within a range of variable appraisal from individuals).
.. creating a wondrous magic item that cast Crafter’s Fortune (1st level spell, CL1) once a day.
so you can see the issues in the chat above; the bonus type, game balance. Luck and armor[force] bonuses are tricky at low level. If your spell was simpler like burning hands it wouldn't be such an issue. Personal spells tend to be a bit powerful for their spell level so those are likely to be a Game Balance issue.
The practical resolution is a Wand of the spell (as those pretty much get a Pass) and using UMD(with or without a Wand Key Ring) or having it on the user's spell list, For a first level spell at CL=1 it is $750 for 50 charges. The second choice is a scroll or potion due to cost per charge and combat use problems.
Personally I'd say "don't allow custom wondrous items to be crafted that have direct spell effects at all". Or at least with only very rare exceptions.
This is because Craft Wondrous Item is already an extremely powerful (overpowered) feat, and making it also have effects similar to wand/potion/scroll crafting makes it even more powerful.
So not only should such a thing cost 3000 gp, it shouldn't be allowed to be crafted at all.
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Ok for the "distortion in the system", but 3000gp? 5000? For an item that cast a single lvl 1 spell (CL1)?
Did you not read the custom item creation section that talks about how all sorts of spells are broken if you just look at their spell level? Stuff like Shield and True Strike. Spell level is frequently irrelevant. It's about how it's used and the cost of similar sort of effects.
This lasts all day (so it would inherently be equivalent to a permanent bonus), and it provides a stackable luck bonus rather than just a common enhancement bonus. Between those two things it easily makes it worth well over 2500 gp. And like I said CWI is one of the most powerful feats in the game and being able to get +5 on crafting them is a powerful effect.
Personally I'd say "don't allow custom wondrous items to be crafted that have direct spell effects at all". Or at least with only very rare exceptions....
an interesting perspective but I disagree. Hopefully you played in PFS where there is no crafting (with a few exceptions).
The magic item crafting section is there for GMs and Players to express their creativity as published (RAW) items are limited by production (only so many pages). Cautions are given. I'd say GMs need some experience with the magic system and should have run a wizard or two before taking on magic item crafting. GMs also need to read and understand RAW on a wider basis than most players.
Personally I'd say "don't allow custom wondrous items to be crafted that have direct spell effects at all". Or at least with only very rare exceptions....
an interesting perspective but I disagree. Hopefully you played in PFS where there is no crafting (with a few exceptions).
The magic item crafting section is there for GMs and Players to express their creativity as published (RAW) items are limited by production (only so many pages). Cautions are given. I'd say GMs need some experience with the magic system and should have run a wizard or two before taking on magic item crafting. GMs also need to read and understand RAW on a wider basis than most players.
I'm going to disagree with you. We allow crafting, but only for existing magic items, not for a custom item. There are a number of reasons for this. the biggest being that we don't have to worry about whether it's balanced or not, but there's also the issue that we use Hero Lab and it's not easy to add a custom item.
Less of an issue is we tend to play Adventure Paths, and many of them don't have time built into them for crafting anyway.
Personally I'd say "don't allow custom wondrous items to be crafted that have direct spell effects at all". Or at least with only very rare exceptions....
an interesting perspective but I disagree. Hopefully you played in PFS where there is no crafting (with a few exceptions).
The magic item crafting section is there for GMs and Players to express their creativity as published (RAW) items are limited by production (only so many pages). Cautions are given. I'd say GMs need some experience with the magic system and should have run a wizard or two before taking on magic item crafting. GMs also need to read and understand RAW on a wider basis than most players.
I'm going to disagree with you. We allow crafting, but only for existing magic items, not for a custom item. There are a number of reasons for this. the biggest being that we don't have to worry about whether it's balanced or not, but there's also the issue that we use Hero Lab and it's not easy to add a custom item.
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I'm not clear on exactly what you disagree with other than the sentiment, or that crafting custom items allows a creative outlet, or that GMs need some experience with the magic system...
Just because it is published doesn't guarantee it is balanced or even priced correctly (the majority of the RPG line is). I can see limiting it to PFS legal items... some are rather overpriced (see errata).
It does show your Home Game group has come to a easy and practical compromise on the issue.
I allow the creation of new kinds of magic items, but I have played different versions of D&D for forty years and I have a good grasp of game balance. My players too are old hands at the game and rarely propose too powerful items unless it is a jest.
As an added balance factor, creating something new (not simply assembling a set of powers for a weapon and armor) requires research, so time and money. In my game world making magic items requires recipes or blueprints of how they are made. Some are learned automatically from your church and faith if you are a divine spellcaster, others from increasing spellcraft and/or the appropriate Knowledge and Craft, and some can be brought, but when you want to make something unique and new you need to research how it is made.
What I do isn't in the rules, but the rules aren't against that. There are even some hints that it is RAI if you want to play that way.
As others have said, you or the NPC are only going to make 1 Craft skill check per day, so it's like having a permanent +5. The bonus type is a Luck bonus, which even stacks with other Luck bonuses so inherently more valuable than a Competence bonus.
A Mossy Disk Ioun Stone is a slotless wondrous item. It grants a +5 Competence bonus on a single Knowledge skill. It states that the creator determines the Knowledge, unlike your custom item which, as written, could give a luck bonus to ANY Craft skill 1/day by the wielder.
The mossy disk Ioun Stone costs 5000 GP; 2500 to craft. I could very easily see a GM using that stone as a model for pricing this item. This being the rules questions and about 2 weeks old at this point, IDK if this is helpful but I'd advise your GM to review other skill-enhancing Ioun Stones like this one for a baseline.
I allow custom magic items, including a Staff of Wishes. Technically it's an artifact, in spite of the name.
Ah yes, the arcane sorcerer spending 640,300 gp of party wealth (160,075 gp per player in a party of 4) to get a wish for 6 1st level spell slots, using those wishes to pay for 3,000,000 gp of inherent bonuses for the entire party, and still winning with ~6 extra wishes per day just from the inherent charisma without even using your previously existing spell slots or those 5 possible wishes in the staff battery itself.
For items that are used in downtime, like this would be, I typically waive the slotless surcharge, since it could just as well be a ring or amulet that is swapped for an adventuring item not needed in the workshop. But aa with all the rest of this pricing system, it vries with specifics, tables, and campaigns.
LoL (comment redacted)
Home GMs have a lot of control over their game so things can vary from RAW quite a bit. I enjoy the creativity as long as it's not too overt, clumsy, or heavy handed. Honestly, creativity with balance is your answer as things can be done in a way that makes a broken or overpowered item work and RAW doesn't cover that at all. Your role as a GM is to be fair and balanced, and hopefully provide a path to success rather than just say "No" all the time.
Advice: So when a player comes up with this idea (and they all do as they want an advantage) think about how you can implement it in a clever way that's not unbalanced and you now have a practical real item to shoot for. Be diplomatic about it but don't give too much away. I'd start with a skill check to rationalize if the PC could think of it at the start. Then set a DC and ask for some gold and game time, then a skill check roll after the research time. Likely in the process you two may come up with something better. Otherwise just let them craft it with so many charges and let it break after awhile (a soft No). Ohhh well, creating non-standard items does have problems, you should have researched it.
As an example I can easily imagine a 4w*6l*3.5h ft oak crafting table 400lb with a drawer for holding tools and a metal bench vice that adds +5 [competence] to a skill check for (mundane or magical) items crafted on it's surface as a wondrous item that requires crafter's fortune. An option of mounting (as in for the duration of the crafting plus 1 day before) a four-leaf clover to the table would change the competence to a [luck] bonus. Would it work in your Home Game? <shrug>
