I'm interested in creating my first gestalt PC. I'm thinking of a Gunslinger/inquisitor PC. Having bane, lots of attacks vs touch AC, a super-fast draw with Cunning Initiative and Gunslingers Initiative, spells, I think he'd have a lot of potential. I just haven't built a gestalt character before. Can anyone give some tips or a framework to help me put things together?
J
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Gunslinger/inq would be nasty as hell. sounds like you are on the right track.
On the premise of "higher level spells are better" and with gunslinger providing full BAB, you might want to consider gunslinger//oracle instead of gunslinger//inquisitor. Possibly gunslinger (gun tank)//oracle (warsighted; Metal mystery) if you want to wear heavy armor.
You should probably narrow down the concept a bit before planning out the gestalt. Also, think about how you want to use spells (mostly pre-combat buffing and post-combat healing or mixing spells and weapon combat); you may want to consider magus (eldritch archer) or other options such as a dip in wizard (spellslinger).
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Gunslinger/Inquisitor is going to be better than Gunslinger/Oracle for several reasons. First is that both are WIS based classes. Going with Oracle is going to require investing in CHA in order to access those higher-level spells. The gunslinger grit is limited to his WIS modifier, so they are going to need a decent WIS. If the inquisitor focuses on buff and defensive spells, they need a good WIS but do not need to max it out. They can easily get by with a 16 WIS plus a headband. Having both characters important mental stat the same means the headband boost both classes. This also allows the character to max out DEX as the primary stat. WIS also has the benefit of increasing Will saves. You could take Mysterious stranger to shift the gunslingers grit to CHA, but you still have to prioritize CHA over DEX.
There is also more synergy between gunslinger and inquisitor than there is between gunslinger and oracle. Adding both DEX and WIS to initiative means you have a much greater chance of going first, and the higher DEX of the gunslinger/inquisitor boosts that up higher. Many of the inquisitor's class abilities are designed to boost their combat effectiveness and can be used with a gun. The oracle relies on spells and revelations for his power. These for the most part cannot be used with a gun.
The inquisitor is much better at skills than an oracle. Not only does the inquisitor get more skills and class skills, but they also get bonuses to multiple skills. Stern Gave boost intimidate and sense motive, Tracking is situational, but still useful. Monster lore helps in identifying creatures. Stealth as a class skill on a DEX based character is always useful.
The inquisitor may only have access to 6th level spells, but the spell list is actually very good at buffing and utility. It has a few offensive spells but does a better job at other things besides combat. With spells like disguise self, invisibility, Knock, Heroism the inquisitor can really shine out of combat.
The big problem with the gunslinger/oracle combination is the inability to use the major class features at the same time. Nearly all the gunslingers class abilities focus on using a gun. The most powerful class ability of the oracle is their spells. It is very difficult to cast spells at the same time you are using a gun. You could use buff spells, but the inquisitor gets many of those same spells, and has other abilities that can be used while firing a gun. This means you are choosing which class to favor each round instead of using abilities from both. This ignores what makes the gestalt a different than a standard game.
just make sure you don't focus too much on a one trick pony build. Also you should have answers for the wind wall (and worse fickle winds) casters.
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If your GM allows it, Trench Fighter is better than Gunslinger.
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Trench Fighter Fighters are not actually proficient with Firearms in most campaigns.
As noted in the entry, this archetype specifically designed for a 'Guns Everywhere' World War I adventure and thus does not get the exotic weapon proficiency or the Gunsmithing feat generally required in a 'normal' campaign using the 'Emerging Guns' level of firearms.
Source
Ultimate Combat pg. 135
No Guns: If you do not want guns in your campaign, simply don’t allow the rules that follow. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game plays perfectly well without them. Very Rare Guns: Early firearms are rare; advanced firearms, the gunslinger class, the Amateur Gunslinger feat, and archetypes that use the firearm rules do not exist in this type of campaign. Firearms are treated more like magic items—things of wonder and mystery—rather than like things that are mass-produced. Few know the strange secrets of firearm creation. Only NPCs can take the Gunsmithing feat.
Emerging Guns: Firearms become more common. They are mass-produced by small guilds, lone gunsmiths, dwarven clans, or maybe even a nation or two—the secret is slipping out, and the occasional rare adventurer uses guns. The baseline gunslinger rules and the prices for ammunition given in this chapter are for this type of campaign. Early firearms are available, but are relatively rare. Adventurers who want to use guns must take the Gunsmithing feat just to make them feasible weapons. Advanced firearms may exist, but only as rare and wondrous items—the stuff of high-level treasure troves.
Commonplace Guns: While still expensive and tricky to wield, early firearms are readily available. Instead of requiring the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, all firearms are martial weapons. Early firearms and their ammunition cost 25% of the amounts listed in this book, but advanced firearms and their ammunition are still rare and cost the full price to purchase or craft.
Guns Everywhere: Guns are commonplace. Early firearms are seen as antiques, and advanced firearms are widespread. Firearms are simple weapons, and early firearms, advanced guns, and their ammunition are bought or crafted for 10% of the cost listed in this chapter. The gunslinger loses the gunsmith class feature and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level.
I would still look at getting at least 3 levels of Trench Fighter even if you don't want to make it your main class. Because it gives you dex to damage with your gun. Getting a 4th level will get you another bonus feat, of course. I did that with my Gunchemist and he worked great.
Gunslingers get DEX to damage at 5th level. Multiclassing for 3 levels delays the other gunslinger class features. Gunslinger also gets a bonus feat at 4th level.
Another advantage to the gunslinger/inquisitor is at 11th level an inquisitor get stalwart, at 15th level as long as they have 1 grit remaining gunslingers get evasion. So, at 15th level if you make your save to take no effect from anything with a will or fort save and no damage from anything with a reflex save. If you took Trench Fighter that does not happen until 18th level.
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I would still look at getting at least 3 levels of Trench Fighter even if you don't want to make it your main class. Because it gives you dex to damage with your gun. Getting a 4th level will get you another bonus feat, of course. I did that with my Gunchemist and he worked great.
Gunslingers get 'Dex to Dmg' at 5th level, so it is still the superior option in most cases: Trench Fighter is really only a good option for characters who already get 'base firearm proficiency' from a non-Gunslinger class archetype (like Gunchemist) and just want the specific 'Dex to Dmg' feature as quickly as possible, which does not seem to be the situation the OP is looking at.
Gunslinger/Inquisitor is going to be better than Gunslinger/Oracle for several reasons. First is that both are WIS based classes. Going with Oracle is going to require investing in CHA in order to access those higher-level spells. The gunslinger grit is limited to his WIS modifier, so they are going to need a decent WIS.
There are gunslinger archetypes that use Cha for grit:
1) A firebrand gunslinger would likely gestalt thematically well with a Flame mystery oracle;2) A mysterious stranger gunslinger (ironically, Mysterious Stranger) would gestalt well with any oracle (spirit guide, probably, for the versatility of the Bonded Spirit).
The big problem with the gunslinger/oracle combination is the inability to use the major class features at the same time. Nearly all the gunslingers class abilities focus on using a gun. The most powerful class ability of the oracle is their spells. It is very difficult to cast spells at the same time you are using a gun.
Which is why I stated "Also, think about how you want to use spells (mostly pre-combat buffing and post-combat healing or mixing spells and weapon combat); you may want to consider magus (eldritch archer) or other options such as a dip in wizard (spellslinger)."
A magus (eldritch archer)//inquisitor (Black Powder inquisition) gestalt, dipping 3 levels of trench fighter (probably on the inquisitor side to get Broad Study as quickly as possible), would probably work better for a character that mixes spells and combat.
Or possibly swashbuckler (picaroon) 3/magus (myrmidarch) 17//wizard (spellslinger) 1/arcanist (blade adept) 19 for a sword and gun mage.
Swb 1//Wiz 1- Arcane Gun (one); Gunsmithing (bonus), Rapid Reload
Swb 2//Arc 1- Two-Weapon Finesse, Sword Bond (Rapier)
Mag 1//Arc 2- feat (? [Arcane Armor Training if the Magical Knack/Arcanist is selected, retrain to Quicken Spell at arcanist 10th+]); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 2//Arc 3- n/a; +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 3//Arc 4- Arcana (Close Range); feat (? [Arcane Armor Training if the Magical Knack/Arcanist is not selected, retrain to Quicken Spell at arcanist 10th+]); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 4//Arc 5- Exploit (School Understanding [Evocation/Admixture]); +1/4 arcane pool point
Swb 3//Arc 6- Intensified Spell
Mag 5//Arc 7- Bonus Feat (Weapon Focus [Rapier]), Exploit (Metamagic Knowledge [Reach Spell]); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 6//Arc 8- Weapon Training (Light Blades); Extra Magus Arcana (Broad Study [Arcanist]); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 7//Arc 9- n/a; +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 8//Arc 10- Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon [Rapier]); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 9//Arc 11- Arcana (Reach Spellstrike), Exploit (Metamixing); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 10//Arc 12- feat (? [probably a metamagic feat]); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 11//Arc 13- Bonus Feat (Weapon Focus [Double-Barreled Pistol]), Exploit (Greater Metamagical Knowledge); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 12//Arc 14- Weapon Training (Firearms); feat (?); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 13//Arc 15- Exploit (?); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 14//Arc 16- Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon [Double-Barreled Pistol]); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 15//Arc 17- Arcana (?), Exploit (?); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 16//Arc 18- feat (?); +1/4 arcane pool point
Mag 17//Arc 19- Bonus Feat (?), Exploit (?); +1 skill rank
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I mentioned the mysterious stranger in my post, but that does not change the fact that a 9th level primary caster needs a much higher casting stat than a 6th level utility caster.
Use a pepperbox and take two weapon fighting and a gunslinger/inquisitor can rack up some serious damage bonuses. Give the character improved critical for the pepperbox and at 15th level they have a 47% chance of rolling at least one critical hit. Throw in gun training, judgement of destruction, and divine favor and you have a good chance of doing around 200 points of damage in a round. Take the feat double bane and the damage goes even higher. A critical hit from a pepperbox at this point is going average 97 points of damage, with a minimum of 83.
Getting Evasion and Stalwart on the same character that has all good saves makes you incredibly tough to affect with magic. That better than mythic saves because it applies to all attacks including mythic spells. Mythic Saves is 5th tier ability.
Gunslinger and Inquisitor seem like a good pairing to me. There is a minor concern on being swift action starved. The inquisitor has both judgement and bane using swift actions. And a gunslinger likely has rapid reload which can also takes a swift action.
Judgements require a swift action to start or to change but continue to last until the combat ends. Bane also specifies it takes a swift action to start or change, but has a finite duration, but does not have to be used consecutively. I have always assumed it was a free action to end Bane. This means the inquisitor will have to spend the first round of combat bringing up judgements or bane but can use his swift actions for other things after that. If he wants both bane and judgement functioning it would take two rounds.
A gunslinger can use alchemical cartridges with rapid reload to reduce the reload time to a free action. At 11th level they get Lighting Reload which also reduces the time to reload. Taking rapid reload and using alchemical cartridges is a no brainer for this character. This will greatly reduce the conflict of swift actions.
Gunslinger and inquisitor is an incredibly good pairing. Unchained monk and inquisitor might be a little better, but it is a solid choice for a gestalt game. A DEX based paladin and archeologist bard would also be good.
Trench Fighter Fighters are not actually proficient with Firearms in most campaigns.
Important point, but this does not mean Gunslinger 5 was superior - a single level of Gunslinger fixes the proficiency. Gunslinger 1/Trench Fighter 3 does basically the same as Gunslinger 5, at one fewer levels.
The free firearm and Quick Clear deed are also very strong early on, so for a character starting at 1st level, this makes a lot of sense. When starting at higher levels, you don't misfire anyway (Enhanced Reliable Shadowshooting Musket for example), so one could simply spend a feat on proficiency.Multiclassing for 3 levels delays the other gunslinger class features.
The what now?
My thought was to make a Faultspawn Tiefling, give him a Grasping Tail (though Prehensile Tail might do the same thing?) and wield two pistols or pepperboxes. With Bane or Double Bane, Destruction Judgment I figure I'll be doing some good damage.
It never occurred to me I could change classes halfway through, for example from Gunslinger (Pistolero?) to Trench Fighter, while my other class stays Inquisitor.
I know many people don’t think the gunslinger has anything to offer past 5th level, but some of the higher class abilities are actually useful. The bonus for Nimble increases by 1 per 4 levels, they also get bonus feats every 4 levels. Being able to get DEX to damage with multiple firearms gives you more flexibility on weapons. Some of the higher-level deeds are good and synergize well with the inquisitor side. Evasive combined with stalwart and all good saves mean you have a good chance of ignoring the effects of spells. Add in Slingers Luck to reroll a failed saving throw and it is even better. That combination does not come online until 15th level but is still very good.
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I know many people don’t think the gunslinger has anything to offer past 5th level, but some of the higher class abilities are actually useful. The bonus for Nimble increases by 1 per 4 levels, they also get bonus feats every 4 levels. Being able to get DEX to damage with multiple firearms gives you more flexibility on weapons. Some of the higher-level deeds are good and synergize well with the inquisitor side. Evasive combined with stalwart and all good saves mean you have a good chance of ignoring the effects of spells. Add in Slingers Luck to reroll a failed saving throw and it is even better. That combination does not come online until 15th level but is still very good.
I always thought Pistolero 11+ with Signature Deed (Twin Shot Knockdown) sounded like a fun combo: If your target actually survives your full attack, you've knocked it prone for free and your allies can tear it to shreds that much easier...