New classes, what could they be

[Sanityfaerie]

Oh. I think I have it.

This is going to be a book that's all about spirits and the spirit world, and two approaches to that thing. There's the Animist, or whatever it's called, and there's Big Chonk, a Martial who's all about channeling spirits through their own body.

"Channeler" does fit the naming convention.

Admittedly, I'm left uncertain as to why one of these would be Rare...?

It's possible that they'll plug a bit too deep into some subsystem that Paizo wants to make sure that GMs can opt out of if they want.

[Squiggit]

Themetricsystem wrote:

Assuming they will fail to do so, leave money on the table, and instead spend EXTRA time and money on trying to slap band-aid errata on content published under the OGL strikes me nieve.

Is it really leaving money on the table though? Paizo's a company with limited publishing resources. Just from a fiscal perspective, trying to get people to buy Guns n' Gears or Dark Archive a second time seems like a much harder sell than instead putting the majority of their efforts toward new content instead.

[Sy Kerraduess]

Sanityfaerie wrote:

"Channeler" does fit the naming convention.

Admittedly, I'm left uncertain as to why one of these would be Rare...?

It's possible that they'll plug a bit too deep into some subsystem that Paizo wants to make sure that GMs can opt out of if they want.

It could be that it is exceptionally rare for a spirit to form a bond with someone that results in this martial class instead of simply a shaman an animist. Maybe it kills them, maybe they can only empower 1 person that way, or something else.

[Squiggit]

I feel like Rare has to be more than something than just being rare in the mundane sense. Our two uncommon classes are uncommon because they engage in setting material that is designed not to be widespread through Golarion and may clash with certain campaign aesthetics.

So a Rare class should be one that has some quality that makes a GM go "no wait I don't want to have to deal with that in my story" above and beyond the sorts of issues people have with Gunslingers.

[Sy Kerraduess]

Squiggit wrote:

So a Rare class should be one that has some quality that makes a GM go "no wait I don't want to have to deal with that in my story" above and beyond the sorts of issues people have with Gunslingers.

Hmm maybe said spirit has to be roleplayed fully by the DM for mechanical reasons. As in, the class might become weaker or stronger depending on how well it is getting along with its spirit and living up to its expectations. Like an Edict that is literally an NPC with goals and feelings.

Edit: more image snippets, the Maui vibes on the martial are getting even more pronounced.

[The Raven Black]

Squiggit wrote:

I feel like Rare has to be more than something than just being rare in the mundane sense. Our two uncommon classes are uncommon because they engage in setting material that is designed not to be widespread through Golarion and may clash with certain campaign aesthetics.

So a Rare class should be one that has some quality that makes a GM go "no wait I don't want to have to deal with that in my story" above and beyond the sorts of issues people have with Gunslingers.

Based on the reactions we had on these boards, demigod the class would totally fit this.

[pixierose]

What if the iconic with the wolf spirit is a martial. Does appear to be holding some kind of weapon and has armor. Could be a hybrid of some kind.

And a sidenote the creature i thought was a wolf, seems more deer like now with these tree like antlers. Very pretty.

[The Raven Black]

pixierose wrote:

What if the iconic with the wolf spirit is a martial. Does appear to be holding some kind of weapon and has armor. Could be a hybrid of some kind.

And a sidenote the creature i thought was a wolf, seems more deer like now with these tree like antlers. Very pretty.

It looks party vegetal too. Spirit of a forest is my guess : a mix of plant, prey and predator.

[Riccardo Olivieri]

The Raven Black wrote:

pixierose wrote:

What if the iconic with the wolf spirit is a martial. Does appear to be holding some kind of weapon and has armor. Could be a hybrid of some kind.

And a sidenote the creature i thought was a wolf, seems more deer like now with these tree like antlers. Very pretty.

It looks party vegetal too. Spirit of a forest is my guess : a mix of plant, prey and predator.

With the new Pic the Spirit now looks more like a deer. We can also see their ears and they not look likes the ones of a Wolf

[RiverMesa]

And here's the whole thing!

Locking in my Demigod and Animist guesses, but I suppose we'll find out in 15 minutes!

[JiCi]

Maui, is that you :P ?

[PossibleCabbage]

Squiggit wrote:

So a Rare class should be one that has some quality that makes a GM go "no wait I don't want to have to deal with that in my story" above and beyond the sorts of issues people have with Gunslingers.

I think Rare has to mean "the circumstances in the universe that allow someone to have this class are fairly unusual. Like 13th Age has a Unique Class, in that there's exactly one of these in existence (but you can be it).

[Verzen]

Where is the stream at?

[PossibleCabbage]

Verzen wrote:

Where is the stream at?

https://www.twitch.tv/officialpaizo

[Riccardo Olivieri]

Enjoy the stream guys. Here is midnight and I have the alarm clock at 6.
Can someone post here a veeeeeery quick recap about the new classes? I would really appreciate!

[keftiu]

Animist and Exemplar are confirmed!

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Animist sounds cool, at least in concept. Fun sort of ... not a witch, exactly? The power givers are called apparitions and are spirit friends that you hang with.

I missed the name of the firstone, Custodian of Elysian Gardens?

Imposter in Hidden Places

Steward of Stone and Fire

Witness to Ancient Battles

They seem to give two lores, a small spell list, a specific spell, and an ability called Avatar that makes you embody your spirit friend.

Not a Binder from 3.x, but still kind of cool.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Exemplars are empowered by a Divine Spark. Very folk hero and what some of us were thinking the Demigod might be. Inspired by Hercules, Maui, Sun Wu Kong, etc.

The iconic Exemplar (Nahoa) is also a nephalim because of the combat with a demon that also unlocked the Exemplar class for him.

Got hit by a "gobbet of god-stuff that fell from the sky."

[Dubious Scholar]

These new classes feel like they're building on the framework of Thaumaturge and implements in a way?

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Short typing.

Divine Spark gets focused through vessels called Icons. You get three, body, worn, weapon. You put your spark in your Icon and you get the ability for it.
Body: Skin Hard as Horn- Resistance to damage, but it doesn't apply to critical hits because you have some weak point to poke at. You can empower it to increase the resistances with one action.

Weapon: Noble Branch- You have a very good stick, +2 spirit damage per weapon die & you can use an action after a successful Strike and throw more spirit damage at your previous target.

Worn Ikon (with a K, sorry. Ikons. IKONS.) Victor's Wreath- You are wearing some sort of inspiring garb, headwear or sash. Laurel, medal, something that inspires your allies. You and allies within 15' get +1 to something, I was typing and it went off screen.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Epithets, things that describe you and give you power based on your deeds.

"Whose Cry is Thunder" You replace Spirit Damage with Electricity and on a critical hit a lightning bolt strikes a target within 30 feet.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

I'm not good at transcribing this, but I really like the concepts behind them.

Animist- Uncommon
Exemplar- Rare, because hardly anyone got hit with God Gobbets.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Examplar Feat 1
Leap the Falls
You gain Powerful Leap and Quick Jump.

Binding Serpents Celestial Arrow Feat 6
Two actions
Make a Strike with your Weapon Ikon and doing damage make entangling snakes.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

These new classes feel like they're building on the framework of Thaumaturge and implements in a way?

A Divine Thaumaturge is the feel I get yes. Not the Belmont sort of thing that a Thaumaturge is and it sounds like you just automatically get three Ikons that get empowered as you desire, not implements that have specific occult connections.

[Herro Allal]

Animist sounds like the Shaman

[Squiggit]

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

Dubious Scholar wrote:

These new classes feel like they're building on the framework of Thaumaturge and implements in a way?

A Divine Thaumaturge is the feel I get yes. Not the Belmont sort of thing that a Thaumaturge is and it sounds like you just automatically get three Ikons that get empowered as you desire, not implements that have specific occult connections.

Worth reminding that thaumaturges aren't occult. I also kind of disagree. They both have magic items they use, but the exemplar is more about adding abilities around specific themes rather than leveraging bespoke packages of abilities.

Herro Allal wrote:

Animist sounds like the Shaman

A little bit of a shaman crossed with the medium, yeah.

Class sounds cool but I'm sort of worried that spellcasting might eat up too much of its budget.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Squiggit wrote:

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

Dubious Scholar wrote:

These new classes feel like they're building on the framework of Thaumaturge and implements in a way?

A Divine Thaumaturge is the feel I get yes. Not the Belmont sort of thing that a Thaumaturge is and it sounds like you just automatically get three Ikons that get empowered as you desire, not implements that have specific occult connections.

Worth reminding that thaumaturges aren't occult. I also kind of disagree. They both have magic items they use, but the exemplar is more about adding abilities around specific themes rather than leveraging bespoke packages of abilities.

Sort of what I was trying to get across, but I'm listening and typing at the same time and that is getting in the way.

Also though, the Thaumaturge is DRIPPING with occult flavor in my book, but that is an argument for another thread.

They are similar though, both of them empowering items. The Exemplar is doing it through their own divine connection while the Thaumaturge is doing it through the symbolism of the items themselves.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

The Exemplar has an ability they can choose called "Sunwrecker" that means you punch the sun so it goes out, casting Darkness around you and giving you Darkvision.

The description is "they can be stealthy, but only in a bombastic way, if that makes sense."

[Temperans]

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

Squiggit wrote:

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

Dubious Scholar wrote:

These new classes feel like they're building on the framework of Thaumaturge and implements in a way?

A Divine Thaumaturge is the feel I get yes. Not the Belmont sort of thing that a Thaumaturge is and it sounds like you just automatically get three Ikons that get empowered as you desire, not implements that have specific occult connections.

Worth reminding that thaumaturges aren't occult. I also kind of disagree. They both have magic items they use, but the exemplar is more about adding abilities around specific themes rather than leveraging bespoke packages of abilities.

Sort of what I was trying to get across, but I'm listening and typing at the same time and that is getting in the way.

Also though, the Thaumaturge is DRIPPING with occult flavor in my book, but that is an argument for another thread.

They are similar though, both of them empowering items. The Exemplar is doing it through their own divine connection while the Thaumaturge is doing it through the symbolism of the items themselves.

This sounds more like a class archetype than a new class. Man I really need to see what exactly are the mechanics cause at least right now it seems bad.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Confirmed that neither class is a pet class. No spirit animal or ghost companions wandering around affecting the material world.

Best question "How is either class like Batman?"

The Animist is like Batman because they can prepare for many situations.

The Exemplar is like Batman because even though he is sneaky, you always know when he is there because of his dramatic flair.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Ten AM PST is when the PDF is expected to be live and downloadable.

[keftiu]

I’m very surprised to hear someone turned off by these. They’re some of the most exciting class power fantasies I’ve heard in years.

[Sy Kerraduess]

Squiggit wrote:

I feel like Rare has to be more than something than just being rare in the mundane sense. Our two uncommon classes are uncommon because they engage in setting material that is designed not to be widespread through Golarion and may clash with certain campaign aesthetics.

So a Rare class should be one that has some quality that makes a GM go "no wait I don't want to have to deal with that in my story" above and beyond the sorts of issues people have with Gunslingers.

Well, now that we know Exemplar is a larger than life hero that can punch the sun, that is certainly something that could clash with certain campaign aesthetics and make some DMs turn up their nose.

[Verzen]

Sy Kerraduess wrote:

Squiggit wrote:

I feel like Rare has to be more than something than just being rare in the mundane sense. Our two uncommon classes are uncommon because they engage in setting material that is designed not to be widespread through Golarion and may clash with certain campaign aesthetics.

So a Rare class should be one that has some quality that makes a GM go "no wait I don't want to have to deal with that in my story" above and beyond the sorts of issues people have with Gunslingers.

Well, now that we know Exemplar is a larger than life hero that can punch the sun, that is certainly something that could clash with certain campaign aesthetics and make some DMs turn up their nose.

Wait - can he seriously punch the sun?

[Nitro~Nina]

I am hugely excited about this. Bombastic divine powers and ghost friends galore. Absolutely fabulous.

[Zaister]

keftiu wrote:

I’m very surprised to hear someone turned off by these. They’re some of the most exciting class power fantasies I’ve heard in years.

Animist sounds cool, especially with the 3.5 binder flavor, but I don’t think the exemplar makes sense as a class to me, and yeah, it kind of “turns me off”.

[Sy Kerraduess]

Verzen wrote:

Wait - can he seriously punch the sun?

Absolutely. When an Exemplar needs some darkness, he just punches the sun until it gives it to them. That is an actual class feat.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

keftiu wrote:

I’m very surprised to hear someone turned off by these. They’re some of the most exciting class power fantasies I’ve heard in years.

They look great to me too. Considering how many classes Pathfinder has had over the years there is bound to be some overlap in themes, but while the Exemplar sort of reminds me of a Thaumaturge because of empowering items and the Animist reminds me of the Binder because of bonding with entities that grant skills and abilities, they don't appear to map to either one.

The exemplar isn't the monster hunter specialist that the Thaumaturge is and the Animist isn't dealing with Vestiges that have to have actual pacts forged with disadvantages and consequences for a bad pact.

The Animist has a bit of Kineticist in it too because it seems to have the choice between a Sage which has strong bonds with one Apparition at a time and a Channeler who has more flexible bonds that can be swapped out. Not quite like single gate or multiple gate Kineticists, but it still reminds me of the focus vs versatility option in that class.

[Squiggit]

Verzen wrote:

Sy Kerraduess wrote:

Squiggit wrote:

I feel like Rare has to be more than something than just being rare in the mundane sense. Our two uncommon classes are uncommon because they engage in setting material that is designed not to be widespread through Golarion and may clash with certain campaign aesthetics.

So a Rare class should be one that has some quality that makes a GM go "no wait I don't want to have to deal with that in my story" above and beyond the sorts of issues people have with Gunslingers.

Well, now that we know Exemplar is a larger than life hero that can punch the sun, that is certainly something that could clash with certain campaign aesthetics and make some DMs turn up their nose.

Wait - can he seriously punch the sun?

Yes, but it's mostly window dressing for casting Darkness via a class feat.

[Nitro~Nina]

Verzen wrote:

Sy Kerraduess wrote:

Squiggit wrote:

I feel like Rare has to be more than something than just being rare in the mundane sense. Our two uncommon classes are uncommon because they engage in setting material that is designed not to be widespread through Golarion and may clash with certain campaign aesthetics.

So a Rare class should be one that has some quality that makes a GM go "no wait I don't want to have to deal with that in my story" above and beyond the sorts of issues people have with Gunslingers.

Well, now that we know Exemplar is a larger than life hero that can punch the sun, that is certainly something that could clash with certain campaign aesthetics and make some DMs turn up their nose.

Wait - can he seriously punch the sun?

In a metaphysical "Oh, sure, the sun is a big ball of plasma, a quantum-powered fusion reactor, the local manifestation of the Forge of Creation, a portal to the Plane of Fire, Sarenrae's sacred celestial body and some wizard's personal beach resort, but it's also a shining disc in the sky. I can punch the shining disc." sort of way, I would assume.

[Unicore]

keftiu wrote:

I’m very surprised to hear someone turned off by these. They’re some of the most exciting class power fantasies I’ve heard in years.

Narratively, I think they have a lot to offer and will really help fill in some character ideas that haven't quite fit anywhere else. Mechanically, the "unique" thing about these two classes is that they offer a lot of variety. We won't really be able to know what that means until we dig into it tomorrow or later, but there really isn't a new mechanical specialization that is becoming possible from these to classes, so I can see how people waiting for certain mechanics not in the game yet could be disappointed to have to wait at least another year.

[Dexter Coffee]

Animist- nice looks cool
Exemplar- not bad too silly for my table but cool. Actually looks at my players. Okay, maybe not.

Edit: foundry team is fantastic so should be able to have fun putting them through their paces this 3 day weekend. Also so glad the name wasn’t actually demigod.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

"Sunwrecker." Black out the sun for a moment with your combat abilities, get Darkness and Darkvision for a while.

Very Maui sounding. Or... was it Orion who shot at Apollo's chariot and he swung down to see what was up?

[Invictus Fatum]

I'm going to guess Anamist and Exemplar.

Will also go out on the limb and say Anamist is a divine Wisdom caster and Exemplar has a divine spark and is a light armored melee.

[Nitro~Nina]

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

"Sunwrecker." Black out the sun for a moment with your combat abilities, get Darkness and Darkvision for a while.

Very Maui sounding. Or... was it Orion who shot at Apollo's chariot and he swung down to see what was up?

Hou-Yi shot down nine of the things. The sun we have, it is said, he spared for one of a few reasons.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Invictus Fatum wrote:

I'm going to guess Anamist and Exemplar.

Will also go out on the limb and say Anamist is a divine Wisdom caster and Exemplar has a divine spark and is a light armored melee.

You mad man! That is an absolutely unhinged prediction, how very dare you.

[Nitro~Nina]

Invictus Fatum wrote:

I'm going to guess Anamist and Exemplar.

Will also go out on the limb and say Anamist is a divine Wisdom caster and Exemplar has a divine spark and is a light armored melee.

Nah, "Animist" and "Exemplar" only have two vowels each, can't be that.

[keftiu]

Zaister wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I’m very surprised to hear someone turned off by these. They’re some of the most exciting class power fantasies I’ve heard in years.

Animist sounds cool, especially with the 3.5 binder flavor, but I don’t think the exemplar makes sense as a class to me, and yeah, it kind of “turns me off”.

It’s a martial with a broken off piece of divinity inside them - not enough to be a true demigod, but such that they can do superheroic things with their bodies and faux-relics.

Hercules and Sun Wukong were both namedropped, and I think pretty elegantly sketch out a class fantasy.

[Veltharis]

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

Or... was it Orion who shot at Apollo's chariot and he swung down to see what was up?

My Greek mythology is admittedly weak, but I think that might have been Heracles during one of his twelve labors...

[Ashanderai]

Heh; Animist, Exemplar, and even Channeler we’re on my short list of guessed at class names from 22August. Nice!