Lurker in Insomnia's page

So the actual answer to my question was, "10/30 is the earliest estimate, but it could be as late as the 11/9 with what we know now" instead of all the other stuff.

The November Physical Product thread was actually helpful though, thank you for that bit.

I used this just now.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/hexagon

Long diagonal of 12 miles is 19.3121 km, with 242.24 KM square.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/hexagon?c=USD&v=hide:0,d:19.3121!km

Getting your PDF early is not a subscriber perk.

Subscribers get their PDFs on the day that their physical products are shipped.

I know, I've just heard a few places that the shipping day is usually two weeks before the street day, so I was kind of expecting a possible Wednesday, but Monday would be nice too.

I guess what I'm saying is that in a monotheism the holy/unholy pairing is, or at least appears, objective, but in a polytheism it's subjective because it depends on who you worship.

My headcannon is going to be that Asmodeus specifically started using Unholy as a phrase to describe the antithesis of Holy energy during the War in Heaven because he was just that kind of contrary guy. It clearly isn't the same energy that Heaven uses and he'll be blessed before he calls it the same thing.

It didn't take long to stick and all the fiendish/lower planes started using it.

But I guess we'll see tomorrow when the preview-embargo lifts and the first people get their PDFs.

Not to be too terribly excited about things, but is it confirmed that tomorrow will be the day? I'm a new subscriber starting in the Remaster.

If I'm playing Pathfinder, it is Golarion. I don't have the [ adjective ] for custom worlds anymore.

It looks like it is an okay boost when a party is in the field, but it really gets into its own when the cleric is spending time working wonders for a mass of NPCs, like a village saved or an army the group is accompanying or anything where it isn't looked at with ONLY whether or not it is going to help push the group through the next encounter.

Probably not the best choice for Abomination Vaults, but maybe good for some other path that has a larger group to support? Hells Rebels, maybe? Agents of Edgewatch, perhaps?

Potency and Striking runes are also under runes, though they aren't as intuitive as could be.

After clicking Runes, look to the bottom of the page and there are two buttons for Potency and Striking. I am looking at them on both the web page and the phone app.

Like so.

They are ALSO under options, but they are still under runes.

Every prepared caster getting spell substitution sounds way better for Clerics and Druids than it does for Wizards. It would certainly make Wizards less appealing to me, being limited to substituting from their books rather than the entirety of their list.

I maintain I'd like to see Wizards being the best at magic overall, and other full spellcasting classes getting their niche protected by special abilities the Wizard doesn't have access to (Domains, Orders, Bloodlines, whatever), but I'm aware that at this point I'm unlikely to get it.

Hopefully the witch will have a good handle on... Practical Magic.

"Oh boy, another class preview! Can't wait to see what I can expect to dive into on release.... at level 14, same as all my campaigns?"

It is neat to see some of the things, but high level previews feel useless to me.

At least it won't be long before there is full information!

Is this an "in universe" game that is played by people on Golarion? Given that it looks like it is just five elements, I'm guessing that if so it would normally be played in Tian Xia?

A good, quick game sounds very fun though, I'm glad to see some people got the chance to play it and speak well of it. Sometimes we want a game but don't have the spoons (stones?) for a full blown evening of Arkham Horror or whatever.

I want to get them ASAP, but I also want to get the FLGS sketch versions and not the normal covers. So conflicted!

Big block of IMO incoming.

I anticipate that the Edicts & Anethema system isn't going to allow much for Holy villains and Unholy heroes much. Those people are probably going to need to pick out some A&E from a short list of either "benevolence and virtue" or "cruelty and sin" options and since those are things that a character is going to care about, you aren't going to likely see one of them struggling on the same side as the other.

Even more than the current Alignment, Holy and Unholy feel like you are taking a side in a cosmic conflict, not just have certain world views that make you a saint or a sinner.

People who are generally good minded might still be Hellknights because they think the Hellknights are a force for order and safety, and wind up making life better for people in the long run, but they aren't likely to be Holy (not even Godclaw types) because of their acceptance of cruel and wicked means. They might not be happy that a village needs to be burned, but they might make sure that it goes as mercifully as possible. They probably might feel bad, but not bad enough to do much about it.

You might get Sarenites that are more heavy handed and willing to do bad things to stop evil, but they aren't going to try to be Unholy because the cruelty isn't the point of what they think they have to do. If they think they have to burn a village, then that is a tragedy they must bear and they will hope for redemption along with being merciful if possible.

Asmodeans are going to be happy to be Unholy because the cruelty and sin is the gold standard of their world view. It is right and proper in their eyes to be tyrannical overlords with torment and fear as their favorite tools. If they think they have to burn a village, then the village is probably already on fire because that is just how the world works. Bonus pay if it is in ashes before sundown because there is a new torture opera premiering and they worked hard for tickets.

The foxhead medallion grants complete immunity to all magical effects, right?

Just spells tagged with four of the elements and also spirit damage. ;)

Just checked mine, no issues or visible changes.

Maybe you are just not signed in under the right G-Mail account?

Oh my gods, PULL TO SCENE.

That is why I am banging my head against a wall to get the map to show right on the Player View, the player wasn't IN THE SCENE.

Okay, it is better now and way WAY more promising!

Our host found a projector that we might be able to use to lay down the map, so it looks like I'll have a learning curve ahead of me!

And what of new deities such as the ones introduced in Rage of Elements?

If you want them to have an alignment, it seems easy enough. Look at their follower alignments and reverse engineer them or have a guess based on the description.

Atreia (the Lambent King) NG
Ayrzul (The Fossilized King) NE
Ferrumnestra (The Lady of Rust) N
Hshurha (Duchess of All Winds) NE
Kelizandri (The Brackish Emperor) NE

etc.

Flag and move on, let the mods handle it.

You Interact with the forked bipod to change functionality from a stabby thing to a gun support or back again.

Interact
[one-action]
Manipulate
Source Core Rulebook pg. 470 4.0
You use your hand or hands to manipulate an object or the terrain. You can grab an unattended or stored object, open a door, or produce some similar effect. You might have to attempt a skill check to determine if your Interact action was successful.

The game doesn't need the symbol every time it mentions an interact action. Just saying Interact implies that it takes one-action to complete.

Interact with the Forked Bipod and it turns into a bipod and not a weapon. Basically you shove it into the ground and use the other end to stabilize your firearm.

Not a pet or companion class, so no looming spirits doing the fighting for you. Other than that...

YarinNox wrote:

Well, for me a good example of an exemplar is the wonder woman. A person with a divine spark, a magic weapon (lasso), a magic object (bracelets) and who has great deeds, but does not overshadow the other teammates. King Arthur is also a great example. Figure with a divine air, a magic sword that does not overshadow Lancelot, who is even recognized as a more skillful warrior. So, even though it's not my type of class (I'm definitely going to play as an animalist), the exemplar looks amazing.

The Exemplar wasn't really clicking for me until you mentioned Wonder Woman. That would be a super fun character to build with this chassis (albeit one that would probably require some homebrew since I doubt Paizo will give us a lasso of truth or bullet-deflecting bracelets as ikons).

From what I can see, it wouldn't be hard at all. First, Body Ikons are natural. Strength, and/or durability is almost certainly on the table. A worn Ikon could be the bracelets, but maybe a tiara would also work out, something that she wears so well that she grants morale boosts to her comrades. She would be giving it out for sure, not the worn Ikon, that is just the focus for her abilities. The Lasso might be a bit tricky, but abilities that channel through a weapon Ikon could include some power of authority that maybe could compel honesty out of somebody who has to admit they are defeated.

Inspirational characters don't have to map exactly to characters at a gaming table and saying that you can't have a special class because your inspiration isn't an exact match is overly limiting.

First off, congrats to everyone for pretty much nailing the concepts of the classes in their predictions based on some scrolls and a nipple.

Second, we're all in agreement that the Exemplar is Exalted but changed a little so that the teacher doesn't notice, right?

Kineticists are Dragon Blooded. Exemplars are Exigents. They might look like Solars if you squint, but starting off low level with more customizable abilities map closer to Exigents.

Any concept that can be described as having incremental increases in power can be a class. Somebody who didn't start out life as the literal son of the king of the gods but instead got a Divine Spark that needs to be cultivated and grown into a roaring flame could fill that role easily.

Clearly I'm looking forward to how they manage this, to get a character brimming with divine potential on the table.

Rare is a good idea, though. I wouldn't want two of them at the same table, it would spoil the broth.

Unless it is a Free Archetype scenario where everyone got at least a little splash of the God Gobbet.

El Santo! That sounds like fun too. Maybe with a Monk archetype?

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

Or... was it Orion who shot at Apollo's chariot and he swung down to see what was up?

My Greek mythology is admittedly weak, but I think that might have been Heracles during one of his twelve labors...

Yup, walking through the desert to get some cattle, in fact. So damn hot out that he fires off an arrow at the sun

I'm going to guess Anamist and Exemplar.

Will also go out on the limb and say Anamist is a divine Wisdom caster and Exemplar has a divine spark and is a light armored melee.

You mad man! That is an absolutely unhinged prediction, how very dare you.

"Sunwrecker." Black out the sun for a moment with your combat abilities, get Darkness and Darkvision for a while.

Very Maui sounding. Or... was it Orion who shot at Apollo's chariot and he swung down to see what was up?

I’m very surprised to hear someone turned off by these. They’re some of the most exciting class power fantasies I’ve heard in years.

They look great to me too. Considering how many classes Pathfinder has had over the years there is bound to be some overlap in themes, but while the Exemplar sort of reminds me of a Thaumaturge because of empowering items and the Animist reminds me of the Binder because of bonding with entities that grant skills and abilities, they don't appear to map to either one.

The exemplar isn't the monster hunter specialist that the Thaumaturge is and the Animist isn't dealing with Vestiges that have to have actual pacts forged with disadvantages and consequences for a bad pact.

The Animist has a bit of Kineticist in it too because it seems to have the choice between a Sage which has strong bonds with one Apparition at a time and a Channeler who has more flexible bonds that can be swapped out. Not quite like single gate or multiple gate Kineticists, but it still reminds me of the focus vs versatility option in that class.

Ten AM PST is when the PDF is expected to be live and downloadable.

Confirmed that neither class is a pet class. No spirit animal or ghost companions wandering around affecting the material world.

Best question "How is either class like Batman?"

The Animist is like Batman because they can prepare for many situations.

The Exemplar is like Batman because even though he is sneaky, you always know when he is there because of his dramatic flair.

The Exemplar has an ability they can choose called "Sunwrecker" that means you punch the sun so it goes out, casting Darkness around you and giving you Darkvision.

The description is "they can be stealthy, but only in a bombastic way, if that makes sense."

If its that then I don't understand why they said its a new class in Golarion given medium and shaman have been there for a long time.

They are vaguely similar in theme in that they deal with spirits, but mechanically they feel distinct so far. I think if I wanted to play the Medium or Shaman and the GM handed me an Animist, I wouldn't be getting the experience I'd be expecting, but I might still be happy with what is going on.

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

Dubious Scholar wrote:

These new classes feel like they're building on the framework of Thaumaturge and implements in a way?

A Divine Thaumaturge is the feel I get yes. Not the Belmont sort of thing that a Thaumaturge is and it sounds like you just automatically get three Ikons that get empowered as you desire, not implements that have specific occult connections.

Worth reminding that thaumaturges aren't occult. I also kind of disagree. They both have magic items they use, but the exemplar is more about adding abilities around specific themes rather than leveraging bespoke packages of abilities.

Sort of what I was trying to get across, but I'm listening and typing at the same time and that is getting in the way.

Also though, the Thaumaturge is DRIPPING with occult flavor in my book, but that is an argument for another thread.

They are similar though, both of them empowering items. The Exemplar is doing it through their own divine connection while the Thaumaturge is doing it through the symbolism of the items themselves.

Animists may wind up with lots of Lore skills because the Apparitions (spirit buddies) right now get two each.

So it really does feel like a version of the Binder class from back in the day, like Aristophanes said.

These new classes feel like they're building on the framework of Thaumaturge and implements in a way?

A Divine Thaumaturge is the feel I get yes. Not the Belmont sort of thing that a Thaumaturge is and it sounds like you just automatically get three Ikons that get empowered as you desire, not implements that have specific occult connections.

Examplar Feat 1
Leap the Falls
You gain Powerful Leap and Quick Jump.

Binding Serpents Celestial Arrow Feat 6
Two actions
Make a Strike with your Weapon Ikon and doing damage make entangling snakes.

I'm not good at transcribing this, but I really like the concepts behind them.

Animist- Uncommon
Exemplar- Rare, because hardly anyone got hit with God Gobbets.

Epithets, things that describe you and give you power based on your deeds.

"Whose Cry is Thunder" You replace Spirit Damage with Electricity and on a critical hit a lightning bolt strikes a target within 30 feet.

Short typing.

Divine Spark gets focused through vessels called Icons. You get three, body, worn, weapon. You put your spark in your Icon and you get the ability for it.
Body: Skin Hard as Horn- Resistance to damage, but it doesn't apply to critical hits because you have some weak point to poke at. You can empower it to increase the resistances with one action.

Weapon: Noble Branch- You have a very good stick, +2 spirit damage per weapon die & you can use an action after a successful Strike and throw more spirit damage at your previous target.

Worn Ikon (with a K, sorry. Ikons. IKONS.) Victor's Wreath- You are wearing some sort of inspiring garb, headwear or sash. Laurel, medal, something that inspires your allies. You and allies within 15' get +1 to something, I was typing and it went off screen.

Exemplars are empowered by a Divine Spark. Very folk hero and what some of us were thinking the Demigod might be. Inspired by Hercules, Maui, Sun Wu Kong, etc.

The iconic Exemplar (Nahoa) is also a nephalim because of the combat with a demon that also unlocked the Exemplar class for him.

Got hit by a "gobbet of god-stuff that fell from the sky."

Animist sounds cool, at least in concept. Fun sort of ... not a witch, exactly? The power givers are called apparitions and are spirit friends that you hang with.

I missed the name of the firstone, Custodian of Elysian Gardens?

Imposter in Hidden Places

Steward of Stone and Fire

Witness to Ancient Battles

They seem to give two lores, a small spell list, a specific spell, and an ability called Avatar that makes you embody your spirit friend.

Not a Binder from 3.x, but still kind of cool.

Okay, but how would that be mechanically represented? That's what I'm wondering. How would you imagine "being a demi-God" being expressed in the game?

Personally, I'm thinking that it could be somebody who has awakened or been infused with divine ability and is currently coming to terms with how to manifest it properly.

Maybe better access to domains than the Cleric, but without being a spellcaster outside of Domains or a spiritual version of the Kineticist instead of material.

Yeah, the tree doesn't have allies. The caster has allies. The tree will protect a clear cutting plant hating lumberjack with a penchant for setting forest fires and torturing dryads if they are an ally of the caster.

Onmyoji sounds like a great subclass for Animist in the new Tian Xia book.

Oh, 4:00 PM! Better go back to sleep.

The beta of Pathbuilder Encounters worked out very well last sesson. It was our first time using it and it worked out great keeping me in check for initiative and tracking HP worked well too.

One of my players though...

"That was a crit, sorry. You take 20 damage."
"Says here I have 24."
"What?"
"Says here I have 24 HP, no damage."
".... *applies damage on my side*"
"That's better!"

"Aaand, that strike was for four damage."
"If that was the case, I'd be down and dying, but I still see 4 HP."
"omg... *applies damage on my side* NOW you are dying, happy?"
"Yes, thank you!"

Bunch of dorks, they are. ;)