I am *considering* running the Iron Siege, which is an epic level challenge that requires you to kill Dispater, Lord of the Second, in Dis.
However this not merely any Dispater, but rather the one created by the Dicefreaks community many moons ago as apart of their Gates of Hell setting.
Before I dive too deeply into character creation, rules of the challenge, and what I might change, I wanna see if there's even any interest in this idea in the first place.
*Be warned*: This is not some normal game. It is part actual fight, part creative thinking outside the box, part theorycrafting. And more!
Also, while there have been attempts in the past, none of them have ever succeeded. This is partially due to how insanely difficult of a challenge this is, but also because in some ways, you're challenging the GM.
My version will still be incredibly difficult, but I may not make it as impossible as it has been in the past.
Anyways, if there's some decent interest, I'll start getting into the more crunch aspects of this.
Seems interesting to play at that power level, and there are plenty of reasons to want to kill him (doesn't have to be a party of just goody two shoes).
What kind of rules does the character building have? Or is that something you're coming up with yourself?
Is this a solo thing or for a party? Not really looking for a solo game, but possibly for a group challenge.
I'm gonna wait to see if I get a few more responses to this before getting into the details of character creation.
I'm honestly unsure if the older versions of the Siege were all solo challenges or not. However, I might a allow a group attempt.
Just a heads up, this isn't a normal game, by any stretch. While there can be roleplay elements, and your motivation to attempt the challenge can pretty much be whatever makes sense for your character, they aren't core aspects of the game. Pretty much any RP should be mostly done to further the goal of killing Dispater.
sounds cool
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Is this a 3.5 game? PF1?
I'm mildly interested. It seems like this may be a "bring your powerful cheese" situation in which our builds should be as strong as we can make them, within the rules, in order to try to survive. Is that an accurate impression? I'm not sure which way I'd prefer but it does make a significant difference for the type of the game.
Is this a 3.5 game? PF1?
Basic D&D, lol
The original challenge was 3.5, but I will be updating it for PF.
And yes, the idea is to bring your *absolute best build*. Pretty much nothing will be banned, aside from things like infinite combos, crazy nonsense(like the old Pun-Pun builds), and similar tomfoolery.
Mmmmm...
Interesting. Tell me more.
I’m curious, bordering on interested… I’m certainly interested in more information
I would at least like to hear more details. Is this pbp? Live online? Done via carrier pidgeon?
Smoke signal! With telegrams for live chats! lol
It will absolutely be play by post. The challenge is far too complex and involved for anything else.
I'm still working on finalizing my own version of the build rules. However, I will leave ya with a little teaser, which is the stat block for your foe(I apologize for the lack of formatting, but this thing is massive, and it's already 5am, lol):
The Arch-Duke of Dis
Seer 10/Abjurer 10/Cerebremancer 10
Large Outsider (Abomination, Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful)
Symbol: The Iron Tower on a red background in an irongray, inverted triangle.
Cosmic Rank: 15 (18 in Dis)
Hit Dice: 52d8 (Outsider) + 30d4 + 1,148 (1,648hp)
Initiative: +11 (+11 Dexterity)
Speed: 120 ft., fly 250 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class: 82 (-1 size, +11 Dex, +34 natural, +9 profane, +19 deflection), touch 48, flat-footed 71
Base Attack/Grapple: +67/+83
Attack: The Iron Staff of Dis +84 melee (2d6+18/x3); or the Rod of Dis +84 melee (2d6+18 plus 3d6 lawful plus 1 negative level (lawful)/x2); or spell +78 melee touch or +77 ranged touch.
Full Attack: The Iron Staff of Dis +84/+79/+74/+69 melee (2d6+18/x3); or the Rod of Dis +84/+79/+74/+69 melee (2d6+18 plus 3d6 lawful plus 1 negative level (lawful)/x2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./ 10 ft.
Special Attacks: Acedia’s Influence, Aura of Hell, calldevils, Hell’s Fire, the Might of Hell, Perseverating Glance, psionic powers, spell-like abilities, spells
Special Qualities: Abomination traits, blindsight 500 ft., Chains of Toil, damage reduction 40/ anarchic, epic, good and silver, darkvision 60 ft., Diabolical Decree, Diabolical Empowerment, Diabolical Prowess, divine immunities, Ferric Affinity, immunity to fire and poison, Infernal Majesty, Iron Curtain, locked within the gates, Lord of the Nine, Polished Façade, regeneration 22, resistance to acid 40 and cold 40, see in darkness, spell resistance 73, telepathy 1,000 ft.
Saves: Fort +57, Ref +54, Will +62
Abilities: Str 35, Dex 32, Con 39, Int 48, Wis 48, Cha 48
Skills: Appraise +74 (+84 for alchemical appraisals), Balance +82, Bluff +122, Concentration +99, Craft (alchemy) +104, Decipher Script +39, Diplomacy +150 (+156 with evil beings), Disguise +19 (+29 when acting), Escape Artist +66, Forgery +74, Gather Information +114, Hide +77, Intimidate +114 (+120 against evil beings), Jump +54, Listen +94, Knowledge (arcana) +104, Knowledge (history) +94, Knowledge (local: Nine Hells of Perdition) +104, Knowledge (nature) +94, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +94, Knowledge (the planes) +94, Knowledge (psionics) +104, Knowledge (religion) +94, Move Silently +81, Psicraft +124, Search +74, Sense Motive +122, Spellcraft +114, Spot +104, Survival +19 (+25 when following tracks, +27 in aboveground natural environments and on other planes), Tumble +66
Feats: Corrupt Spell-like Ability, Dark Speech, Burrowing Power, Chain Power, Chain Spell, Craft Contingent Spell, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Universal Item, Empower Power, Inquisitor, Psionic Meditation, Quicken Power, Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll
Epic Feats1: Craft Epic Contingent Spell, Craft Epic Rod, Craft Epic Staff, Craft Epic Universal Item, Epic Evil BrandB, Epic Manifestation, Epic Psionic Focus (x2), Epic Skill Focus (Psicraft), Epic Spellcasting, Focused Metapsionics (Quicken Power), Improved Metapsionics (x3), Improved Spell Capacity (x4), Multipower (x3)
Note: While wielding the Iron Staff, Dispater gains the benefits of the following epic feats: Spell Stowaway (greater spell immunity), Spell Stowaway (heal), Spell Stowaway (mass heal), Spell Stowaway (shapechange) and Spell Stowaway (time stop)
Environment: The Iron Tower, Dis, Second of the Nine Hells of Perdition
Organization: Unique (solitary)
Challenge Rating: 63
Treasure: Quintuple standard plus the Iron Staff of Dis and the Rod of Dis.
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Acedia’s Influence (Ex): To those of a good bent, Dispater’s very presence is a curse. Creatures within 200 feet with any “good” portion in their alignment (including good tendencies) are struck by this curse unless they succeed on a Will save DC 64. Failure indicates that the creature contracts Acedia’s Influence, preventing them from performing good deeds. Each round that an afflicted creature attempts to perform a good deed (or part of a good deed, DM’s discretion), he must save once more against the same DC or else be rendered helpless and unable to move until he resolves not to attempt that action again. Deities and cosmic entities are immune to Acedia’s Influence, except on a successful opposed rank check.
Acedia’s Influence can only be removed by a deity or cosmic entity who makes a successful rank check against Dispater. Those that swear a diabolical oath to serve Dispater and renounce goodness are likewise healed of the curse for as long as they hold true to the Diabolical Oath. Those that successful save against Acedia’s Influence are immune to its effects for the next 24 hours.
Aura of Hell (Ex): Dispater’s Aura of Hell can affect all creatures within 1400 feet of him, with a Will save DC 64 allowed to negate the effects.
Call Devils (Sp): As a move equivalent action, Dispater can call devils. Nine times per day, Dispater may call a Duke of Hell, 9 pit fiends, or 18 or any lesser type of devil; devils so called have triple standard Hit Dice, to a maximum of 45 Hit Dice. Since these devils are called, they have the ability to summon other devils as their Monster Manual descriptions allow. Dispater is quick to call others to do his work for him, but believes in “a devil for all seasons”, using his incredible intelligence and intuition to call on the right devil for the right task.
Chains of Toil (Su): There are some foolish enough to deal with Dispater, and to those he offers his Chains of Toil. Dispater can grant this boon up to nine times per day. The client is granted the ability to use monstrous thrall* as a spell-like ability once per month. This thrall, His Iron Grace explains, will then work for the client at no cost as a slave. Each month the client’s number of slaves will increase by means of this power, leaving him free to live a life of leisure. Each time the client uses the monstrous thrall ability, he moves one step closer towards Lawful Evil on the alignment axis. In return, Dispater asks for an item of great worth to the client (generally 1,000gp per Hit Die of the client). If the client does not have an item of sufficient worth (which is usually the case, and the Iron Duke’s preference), Dispater will accept the client’s soul with the understanding that the client will use Chains of Toil to buy his soul back over time. The initial price set will appear quite achievable, but interest quickly accumulates above and beyond the amount that the client can repay. Even if the client does manage to repurchase his soul, he has done so with lucre ill-gotten and taken from those he has enslaved; when he dies, his soul willstill find its way to Dis to toil endlessly in cruel irony. Chains of Toil can only be removed by a miracle followed by atonement as cast by a 41st level (or higher) caster. Each thrall must similarly have miracle cast to be returned to normal, at the client’s cost; those that were in thralldom remember vividly their treatment and are prime candidates for infernal help in order to have their revenge. Finally, the client must give back all that he gained from this boon in order to be free of its curse. *found in Complete Divine under the Domination domain.
Diabolical Empowerment: Dispater uses his Intelligence modifier instead of his Charisma modifier when
determining the power of special attacks and special qualities.
Ferric Affinity (Su): Having taken iron as his symbol, Dispater enjoys a tremendous power over the silvergray metal and all alloys composed predominantly of it. He can sense all iron (or iron alloy) within 15 miles (18 miles when in Dis), can pinpoint its exact location (no miss chance if attacking), and he can animate any such object (so long as it is unattended) as a free action (but never more than 38,400 pounds of objects at once). By using a move action, he can see through iron or iron alloys, and is then able to treat creatures on the far side of such an obstacle as being both in his line of sight and line of effect (the iron allows his spells and powers to pass directly through). Dispater also adds wall of iron to his list of spell-like abilities, usable at will.
Hell’s Fire (Su): Dispater may use Hell’s Fire 22/ day, dealing 22d12 points of diabolical damage in a line 10 feet wide and 1900 feet long (Ref save DC 64 for half damage). Dispater’s Hell’s Fire appears as a rush of whirling iron blades and rust-red mist.
Infernal Nobility (Ex): As the Lord of the Second, Dispater has a status equivalent to that of the gods. Dispater possesses a cosmic rank of 15. While in Dis (and anywhere else on Hell that Asmodeus allows), Dispater functions as a greater god with a cosmic rank of 18.
Iron Curtain (Su): Dispater can use his Iron Curtain nine times per day as a free action. This power protects Dispater from all forms of attack. First, Dispater receives a Fortitude save to negate any attack entirely, in which case it has no effect and deals no damage. This is regardless of whether the attack normally allows a save. The Fortitude save DC is always equal to 10 + ½ attacker's Hit Dice + attacker's Con modifier. If this save is failed, the attack is resolved as normal. The second effect of the Iron Curtain is to absorb damage. If the attack deals hit point damage, this damage is applied to the Curtain instead of Dispater. The Curtain can absorb 300 points of damage before collapsing. Dispater can adjust the Curtain to ignore certain types of damage. (Such as fire, to which he is immune) If Dispater activates his Iron Curtain within his Iron Tower, it absorbs 600 points of damage before collapsing, even if he afterward leaves. The Iron Curtain remains in effect for 24 hours provided it does not collapse.
The Might of Hell (Su): So terrible is Dispater’s presence that he may corrupt an entire area with but a thought. Thrice per day as a free action, he may unhallow an area with a 1560 foot radius (caster level 76th).
Perseverating Glance (Su): The Lord of Dis takes an evil delight in having creatures – all creatures – engaged in mind-numbing, fruitless tasks. Those within his presence can be forced into such tasks with but a glance from His Iron Grace, never knowing aught again except the mechanical repetition of the last action they took before succumbing to this power. Dispater may target one creaPerseverating Glance no more than nine times per day on any creature he can see within 1800 feet. A targeted creature is allowed a Fortitude save against DC 64 to resist this power, with a successful save slowing the creature. Deities and cosmic entities are immune to Perseverating Glance except on a successful opposed rank check. A failed save results in the creature repeating its last action over and over again. Casting a spell, for example, would be followed by an attempt to recast the exact same spell in the same manner; inability to replicate the action in this case would lead to the character expending her highest level spell or spell slot each round. An attack with a sword would be repeated in the same way, even if the target has moved or been dispatched. Movement is replicated by moving back and forth between the last two “beginning” and “end” squares that the creature used. Inaction breeds further inaction. Creatures under the effect of Perseverating Glance may be considered to be helpless (if, for example, their last act was to freeze in place trying to avoid notice), but even if not helpless are treated as flat-footed. Perseverating Glance is not a gaze attack, i.e. the target can be affected whether he catches Dispater’s eye or not. Furthermore this power takes direct physical control of a creature, and thus is not a mind-influencing effect.
Polished Façade (Ex): His Iron Grace always appears urbane and refined, even when his true intentions are base and despicable. This puts even enemies at ease in his presence, and has been the downfall of many an unwary foe. Dispater adds a +18 profane bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks, and is immune to attempts to magically discern his true intentions.
Psionic Powers: Dispater manifests powers as a 68th level seer. Power points/day: 533. Powers known: 1st— defensive precognition, detect psionics, force screen, offensive precognition, offensive prescience; 2nd— concussion blast, ego whip, recall agony, sensitivity to psychic impressions; 3rd— body adjustment, danger sense, dispel psionics, energy retort, mind trap; 4th— aura sight, intellect fortress, mindwipe, psionic divination; 5th—catapsi, incarnate, power resistance; 6th— greater precognition, psionic contingency, temporal acceleration; 7th—divert teleport, fate of one, flesh to iron*, psionic moment of prescience, ultrablast; 8th— bend reality, psionic iron body, recall death; 9th— apopsi, metafaculty, microcosm, reality revision. Save DC equals 38 + spell level.
*As per the 6th level shaper power crystallize, except that the
target creature is transmuted into iron.
Epic Psionic Powers: Dispater can manifest an epic power up to eight times per day. Powers known: Dispater’s iron defense, epic dimension door, esoteric aegis, greater epic psionic armor*, Trojan curse.
*As per greater epic mage armor, except as an epicpsionic power
Epic Spells: Dispater can prepare up to eight epic spells per day. Spells known: contingent true resurrection, esoteric aegis, greater epic mage armor, oppress, superb dispelling, tyranny.
The Iron Staff of Dis: This plain, unadorned iron bar functions as a +6 quarterstaff of defending, save that it
deals 1d8 points of damage and has a x3 critical multiplier. The Iron Staff grants Dispater incredible defensive powers. Foremost, Dispater gains the benefits of the Spell Stowaway feat for the following spells: gate, heal, miracle, time stop, and wish. Dispater may set two contingencies upon his person, except that the attached spells have no level limit, and up to two (non-epic) spells can be attached to the contingency. Spells or spell-like abilities that fail to penetrate Dispater’s spell resistance are reflected upon the caster as if they had been subjected to spell turning. This does include area-affecting spells which are typically not subject to spell turning; for example, if an enemy wizard casts an ice storm in an area of effect that could affect Dispater, the ice storm would be redirected to an area of effect centered on the caster. Iron and iron-alloy metal weapons that deal damage to Dispater must make a Fortitude save DC 64 or rust away completely. The damage must be real damage rather than damage absorbed by Dispater’s DR; thus, if a sword strikes the Arch-Duke but deals no damage, the sword is not affected by the rusting power. Only the weapons of cosmic or divine beings with equal or greater divine ranks are immune to this ability. Successful critical hits and sneak attacks have a 75% chance of being negated.
The Rod of Dis: A four-foot length of twisted iron adorned with chain links of adamantine and capped with a fist-sized ruby surrounded by garnets, the Rod of Dis functions as a +6 heavy mace of lawful power with a x3 critical rate. It functions as a rod of epic rulership with the following modifications. First, it can affect up to 1500 creatures at one time, none of which can exceed 30 Hit Dice, at a distance of 15 miles. Within Dis, this increases to 1800 creatures with no more than 36 Hit Dice. Creatures with an Intelligence score of 24 or higher are entitled to a Will saving throw DC 64 to negate the effect. The rod has no limit on how long it can be used. When used in combat, those struck by the rod must succeed in a Will save DC 64 or be affected as though by dominate monster.
The Iron Tower: While in the Iron Tower, Dispater has numerous defensive options. A dimensional anchor effect is constantly in effect within the Tower (Dispater himself is immune to this effect; note this affects psychoportation powers as well). A token of Dis is required to circumvent this effect. Different tokens have different security accesses. Dispater is aware of every creature holding a token of Dis; he can pinpoint their location to within two miles (anywhere in Dis), ascertain their general state of health, and can determine their alignment. Those who would attack Dispater by spell or by sword within the Iron Tower find that telekinetic effects hinder their efforts. Those attacking with weapons contend with telekinetic attempts to force their weapons from their hands. An opposed Strength check is required to hold onto the weapon (the force has a "Strength" score
of 48); those attempting to hold on to metallic weapons suffer a -9 penalty on the check. Those casting spells with material or somatic components must also succeed in an opposed Strength check, or their spells are spoiled and lost. These checks must be made every round. A constant catapsi effect interferes with all psionic activity; furthermore, each round that a psionic power (or psi-like ability) is in use by a particular creature, it must also make a concentration check as if it were manifesting the power defensively, with a penalty on the check of – 36; failure of this check means that the manifestation fails.
In any event, all who would attack Dispater within the Iron Tower suffer a reprisal in the form of corrupt, intensified lightning bolts. Each round, one bolt strikes any foe that attempted to physically attack Dispater, dealing 120 points of electricity damage and 120 points of corrupt damage. A Reflex save DC 64 is allowed for half damage, but one must first succeed in an opposed Strength check versus the telekinesis in order be able to attempt the save. To make matters worse, a particularly potent hold monster spell targets all of Dispater's foes every two minutes. Those that fail are paralyzed for two minutes. The Will save DC to avoid the effect is 64. Finally, every four rounds, the Iron Tower casts mage’s disjunction as a 76th level caster. Dispater can determine which creatures and/or items within the edifice are subject to this powerful disenchanter. The power of the Iron Tower is such that cosmic and divine beings may be affected by it. Such beings do not receive rank checks to ignore the effects of the Iron Tower and make saves as all other beings.
Yeah, he seems a tough guy...
Or Flippy from Happy Tree Friends. Humanoid bear that might be Barbarian/Ranger. Sneak around and then flip out and kill things.
Intriguing. Some of the things in that statblock are a bit unfamiliar to me as they are 3.5 not Pathfinder. But it seems reasonable to just port them over. He is a deity, after all, so he plays by different rules.
I'll watch this space for the build rules. Very curious.
Oo, this seems super interesting!
These are obviously not the full, final character creation rules. I still have some work to do on them, but they will suffice as a teaser to get people thinking:
Your goal is to kill Dispater, Lord of the Second, and you must do it in Dis. You will start at the gates of Dis, right past Tiamat's lair, but you are allowed to do all precautions and preparations you want before the challenge begins. That is to say, you are allowed to craft items/epic spells and whatnot, but when the challenge starts, you will find yourself to be standing at the gates.
You use are to use Dicefreaks' deity creation rules. They can be found from the 9th book of Gates of Hell. I suggest you to read them through. You have a pool of 18 divine ranks from which to draw and you can split them as you wish. You're allowed to have a single DvR 18 deity, two DvR 9 deities, etc. (This is subject to change, as I might go with different deity creation rules.)
You will use PC wealth appropriate to your level. Deities' HD caps at 70, normal mortals are limited to 40 HD, but creatures such as dragons and undead can go as high as 100 HD. You also have 5 levels worth of free templates. (I am *considering* gestalt/tristalt, but not sure just yet.)
As to sources: Any and all, including 3pp. Links to SRDs must be provided. If your source comes from a book without an online SRD/link you must provide me the relevant mechanics, either on your character sheet/stat block or via PM.
For simplicity's sake, let's keep it pretty much Pathfinder 1e. That said, if there's something from 3.x that is essential to your build, and doesn't violate the below, I might allow it.
Finally, I do have the right to use my ban-hammer. Pun-Pun, Omniscificer and their close relatives will find themselves utterly unable to take part into this challenge. Don't make infinite loops, theoretical builds, or similar nonsense. The goal is to defeat Dispater within the 'normal' limits of the system/game.
How would people feel about utilizing discord? The challenge itself would be here on Paizo, but discord would allow for pinning of character creation/rulings/useful links, sharing of art for characters, rooms to plan away from others(don't want them stealing your ideas, the wankers!, lol), etc.
Is there a way to access those rules?
Ninjaed. Also, "all 3pp allowed" is a bit beyond my range - I'll never be able to 100% optimize with things I've never read, so... I'll have to consider whether I apply or not.
Is there a way to access those rules?Ninjaed. Also, "all 3pp allowed" is a bit beyond my range - I'll never be able to 100% optimize with things I've never read, so... I'll have to consider whether I apply or not.
I don't think you'll need to worry about *not* using 3pp content. Originally, only official WotC material was allowed, but as I am a big fan and supporter of 3pp(and friends with many of the writers/owners/publishers!), I like to allow their content whenever possible.
Also, I am *considering* allowing a team to attempt this challenge, so that would mean you've got help to overcome any possible weaknesses in your build.
Whichever deity creation rules I end up using will be provided in the official recruitment.
Deities? Well I was more interested in a mortal who was going through this since I never had experiance ith the rules you are using.
Hmm..Goblin Feral Gnasher who just wants to find out what Dispater tastes like..
For those looking for the source, seek and ye shall find. But beware of Drop Bears.
If we're really going to have that many hit dice, we can have multiple classes at 20th level. I don't think we'll need gestalt or tristalt.
I'm assuming that we can use monsters as the base for those HD.
My head is swimming with the possibilities.
For those looking for the source, seek and ye shall find. But beware of Drop Bears.
Man, I'm so bad at riddles
*Update*:
I'm havin a buddy of mine cobble together a few stat arrays based on the DF deity point buy to see if I like that method or not.
Also, while it shouldn't be too hard to find their creation rules, do not actually use them to start CC, as even if I use that system, I will probably adjust things to my liking. I have a few sets of deity rules, and might end up combining em into something that fits my style best.
Lastly, just to keep things fun, crazy, and interesting, players can submit more than one challenger, even if you opt to not split up your divine ranks. Any additional challengers can make a wholly separate attempt.
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Darn it, now I am thinking of Marvin The Martian with a zap gun and his The Illudium Q-46 Explosive Space Modulator.
*Important Note*:
Disapter's above stats are from D&D 3.5, and thus need to be updated to PF1e. While a fair amount will be the same, things like his HP total and BAB/Attacks will change.
I also might increase some of his ability scores, add other stuff, and maybe change some things around.
Just a heads up, my laptop is being super weird right now and not recognizing my external wired keyboard. I got a message about the power to the USB port not working/being enough.
I just ordered a wireless board, which should hopefully be here on Tues. Suffice to say, full character creation will need to wait till it arrives.
I can still answer questions via my phone (where I'm typing from now), but a long character creation post is a bit too much on mobile.
New keyboard obtained! Super smexy! My intention is to begin writing up the full character creation soon, with the hope of posting it late tonight.