|
But yeah, I should start playing SFS especially after i helped changed a very stupid rule in it lolThis piques my curiosity, which rule is that?You know how one of the dragonkin’s abilities was to bond with one character?
SFS used to *force* you to choose another player’s character to bond with. *force*. Before you even were able to play a single session with as a Dragonkin, you had to choose a character beforehand
You want to have your Dragonkin go out and form a connection with another character through roleplay and playing together have that lead up to them making a bond? Nope sorry, you have to form a bond with a character beforehand because screw roleplay, story and relationship building, which is literally one of the biggest appeals of said racial ability
Maybe your Dragonkin goes against the grain and doesn’t want to make a magical bond with anyone? Sorry, can’t do that either. You are forced to make a bond with another character
Thankfully, I pointed out these issues and the amazing folks at Paizo list ended and corrected it. Here is the post in question: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43qn3?The-Dragonkin-Partner-Bond-feature#1
Nice.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Thankfully, I pointed out these issues and the amazing folks at Paizo list ended and corrected it. Here is the post in question: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43qn3?The-Dragonkin-Partner-Bond-feature#1
Just to be clear person who responded to you in that thread is not a Paizo employe. They are a volunteer with no official authority to make rules changes to the program.
They offered to ask the OPF leadership for clarification on your question.
Contributor
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There was a change to the rule though. If you look at the Character Options page for Starfinder under Alien Archive, you'll see the following text:
[UPDATED - February 2023] *Dragonkin characters have the following additional rule:
When you create a dragonkin character, you may select another player’s character to form your partner bond with. Mark down that character’s Organized Play number on your character sheet. If that character is permanently slain, then you can select a new partner bond by marking a new Organized Play number on your character sheet between sessions.
A dragonkin adventurer may choose not to form a partner bond, or they may choose to form one later in their adventuring career. Once a partner is selected, they may not be replaced unless they are permanently slain.
|
I think that the choice of what ancestru is free seems to be arbotary based ob preference. I like poppets, they should be free.
A lot of people in the DnD community mainly played tieflings, and they aren’t going to find PFS fun. They have to spend ACP to make a tiefling character, which kind of sucks especially coming from D&D, whose organized play doesn’t place limits on ancestries but also has tieflings as a base race.
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
My late chime in for this subject.
The Tengu ancestry should have been a free Ancestry from the beginning, since they were a part of PFS in PF1 for a majority of the 10 seasons (11 counting season 0).
I believe they are called Kenku in the brand.
Now, I have some qualms about some of the decisions on the other side of the aisle, as the brand had, in a previous iteration, left out Gnomes in the initial players book, and the inclusion of the Tiefling has always been a headscratcher for me. (Talking core races here)
For Pathfinder, including Goblins was a brilliant move, since the little buggers has become an icon for the system since their introduction in Rise of the Runelords. (Fire! Fire!) There are some that disagree with the little guy becoming a core race. The turning of the half races (Elf/Orc) into Heritages was something to get used to and really not optimal, but it does give an example of the mechanic in the Core Rulebook.
My overall advice is to give the game a chance. I would start with a Core book character for the first time, and expand as you get more experienced with the game and mechanics flow.
My late chime in for this subject.
The Tengu ancestry should have been a free Ancestry from the beginning, since they were a part of PFS in PF1 for a majority of the 10 seasons (11 counting season 0).
I believe they are called Kenku in the brand.
Now, I have some qualms about some of the decisions on the other side of the aisle, as the brand had, in a previous iteration, left out Gnomes in the initial players book, and the inclusion of the Tiefling has always been a headscratcher for me. (Talking core races here)
For Pathfinder, including Goblins was a brilliant move, since the little buggers has become an icon for the system since their introduction in Rise of the Runelords. (Fire! Fire!) There are some that disagree with the little guy becoming a core race. The turning of the half races (Elf/Orc) into Heritages was something to get used to and really not optimal, but it does give an example of the mechanic in the Core Rulebook.
My overall advice is to give the game a chance. I would start with a Core book character for the first time, and expand as you get more experienced with the game and mechanics flow.
I just never play normal races
In all my time playing dnd, I have only played 1 elf, 1 dwarf, and 1 human. Almost all my characters were half dragons when HB was allowed or Dragonborn, with one or two kobolds, a couple tieflings and an aasimar.
They just don’t really seem all that appealing to me
And besides, iruxi Kitsune and tieflings are so popular I think that warrants making them free
I also don’t like the precedent PFS set. A lot of places that do PF2e don’t allow uncommon ancestries period because PFS introduced the concept. There was this WM/living world that forces players to “work” for uncommon ancestries. There are even home game non-PFS tables that like setting up a system where players have to earn uncommon ancestries, and I hope I’m not unlucky enough to not have those tables be my only option
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I also don’t like the precedent PFS set. A lot of places that do PF2e don’t allow uncommon ancestries period because PFS introduced the concept. There was this WM/living world that forces players to “work” for uncommon ancestries. There are even home game non-PFS tables that like setting up a system where players have to earn uncommon ancestries, and I hope I’m not unlucky enough to not have those tables be my only option
The historic roots behind that go back much farther, so it isn't a PFS thing at all.
Indeed. Restricting what ancestry is available in a campaign is not a PFS thing. It's a TTRPG thing. I've run a D&D campaign where all you could play were humans. Ancestry access is one of those things that has always been a negotiation between the player's imagination and the GM's imagination. The one has a setting fantasy in mind, the other has a character fantasy in mind.
We have an amazing draconic race in the PFS Legal Kobold. They get dragon breath, and access to all kinds of other dragon options. You could build an older sibling for this character that is a kobold older sister, paving the way in Society for her until she is ready to adventure. Build up this adopted family with kobolds until you have enough ACP for this tiefling warpriest
You know how I took this idea of yours and expanded it into my own character idea? The kobold fervor witch whose patron is Apsu? I was excited about this idea but then I found out about a very stupid restriction
“A witch's patron is a mysterious entity, rarely known or understood even by the witch in that patron's service. The nature of the relationship between a witch and their patron can serve as details for character development and storytelling. When playing a witch, work with your GM to determine the nature of your patron and how much of that nature you know, both as a player and a character. There are countless ways to handle a witch's patron; the following are just a few approaches you might take.”
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/771843864390270996/10984371181513687 34/IMG_1106.png
Yeah, apparently witches aren’t allowed to know who their patrons are. Because screw backstory or anything cool
D&D let’s your warlocks know who their patron is :/
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
When playing a witch, work with your GM to determine the nature of your patron and how much of that nature you know, both as a player and a character. There are countless ways to handle a witch's patron; the following are just a few approaches you might take
Not seeing a restriction there.
Damnit I just realized you guys can’t see the image
Your conclusion contradicts your quote, which is only default flavor anyway.
(And is very, very similar to what it says about DnD Warlocks.)
There's no restriction there.
https://www.reddit.com/user/CaptainRelyk/comments/12syo17/just_a_thing_for_ paizo_forums/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&a mp;utm_content=2&utm_term=1
According to Qwert there is a restriction
|
Contributor
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
And to save everyone time, let's quote it.
Captain Relyk: I know in DnD GMs will often have a warlock's patron matter in story or have characters meet their Patron.
Qwert: Witch patrons are explicitly unknowable by the PC and might not come into play.
Three Things:
1) The questions 'Can I know who my patron is?' and 'Will the GM bring my patron into the story?' are two very different questions.
2) Who's Qwert? Even if Qwert turns out to be one of the Developers in charge of the Pathfinder 2e Ruleset, the private opinions of Developers are not considered canon unless they are answering rules in an official capacity. If Qwert is just another player / GM, then that is just Qwert's opinion here.
3) In Organized Play, Apsu can absolutely be your patron, and you can know who Apsu is. But your GM for the storyline is Organized Play itself, so don't expect to ever meet Apsu in a scenario. There have been a few times when we've met gods in Organized Play, but that has been in extreme situations. So Qwert is half right. Your patron can come into play in your own roleplay (listening to one's patron for advice is a common witch trope) but might never come into play in an official scenario.
TL/DR: Create the backstory you want, and introduce it in your roleplay. But Organized Play is not a home game that can customize the storyline to the characters playing in our shared world.
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
To further undermine the assertion of the random Reddit poster:
In Organized Play, since the plot of the scenario is never about your character beyond their role as a PFS agent, a character asserting that their witch patron is X and is correct vs. asserting that their witch patron is X but is incorrect is a distinction without a difference.
Example:
A changeling witch who believes their Fervor powers come from Shelyn but is actually secretly granted by a powerful night hag for some future (and never actually attained) purpose.
A changeling witch who knows their Fervor powers come from Shelyn.
The two examples are functionally indistinguishable in PFS.
The difference in PFS is that you, the player, need to come up with the secret machinations of the night hang on your own and it only ever matters for your own personal head canon instead of telling the GM that you want your witch patron to matter in some way, tell me what I know about my character's patron.
To further undermine the assertion of the random Reddit poster:
In Organized Play, since the plot of the scenario is never about your character beyond their role as a PFS agent, a character asserting that their witch patron is X and is correct vs. asserting that their witch patron is X but is incorrect is a distinction without a difference.
Example:
A changeling witch who believes their Fervor powers come from Shelyn but is actually secretly granted by a powerful night hag for some future (and never actually attained) purpose.
A changeling witch who knows their Fervor powers come from Shelyn.
The two examples are functionally indistinguishable in PFS.
The difference in PFS is that you, the player, need to come up with the secret machinations of the night hang on your own and it only ever matters for your own personal head canon instead of telling the GM that you want your witch patron to matter in some way, tell me what I know about my character's patron.
According to Hedron, a VA officer in the RFC server, I can’t play that witch of Apsu “ At your own table, you can turn the entire rulebook on its head. I think Society play is the only place where it is enforced by an outside force.” And when I complained about how stupid it was he said to just not play PFS
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I disagree that those are "functionally indistinguishable in PFS".
Very occasionally specifics might make a difference.
Example where it probably wouldn't make a difference.
"Followers of Shelyn automatically recognize the depiction of her in the mural."
Example of where it probably would make a difference.
"Due to the sanctity of the Holy Sculpture room, followers of Shelyn get a +1 circumstance bonus to their Spell DCs"
Little character/flavor details can and should make a difference when they come up. Good communication between players and GMs along with prepared GMs who have the extra bandwidth to engage with player stories make all the difference between a generic dungeon crawl and an exciting flavor filled sewer romp.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If someone says that, just change the story so that it fits into the silly ruling and behaves the same.
Maybe technically your kobold witch's patron is unknown to your kobold. However, your kobold is completely convinced it is Apsu. They act as though their patron is Apsu. They continue to receive power. Thus, confirming the kobold's assumption. The patron could even be Apsu, but technically the kobold doesn't know.
These are loophole ways to circumvent silly rulings, because there will be silly rulings every so often. It is the nature of organized play and a campaign with a multitude of GMs. I use these backstory loopholes all the time.
I have a kobold flames oracle who was definitely not cursed by Dahak because in PFS he cannot have been cursed by Dahak. He was definitely cursed by Sarenrae. But, he worships Apsu because he thinks Apsu is the one that "over gifted" him with the power.
Thus going back to, if you want to play in society, then do. If the 'restrictions' bother you too much, then don't. It is up to you.
If someone says that, just change the story so that it fits into the silly ruling and behaves the same.
Maybe technically your kobold witch's patron is unknown to your kobold. However, your kobold is completely convinced it is Apsu. They act as though their patron is Apsu. They continue to receive power. Thus, confirming the kobold's assumption. The patron could even be Apsu, but technically the kobold doesn't know.
These are loophole ways to circumvent silly rulings, because there will be silly rulings every so often. It is the nature of organized play and a campaign with a multitude of GMs. I use these backstory loopholes all the time.
I have a kobold flames oracle who was definitely not cursed by Dahak because in PFS he cannot have been cursed by Dahak. He was definitely cursed by Sarenrae. But, he worships Apsu because he thinks Apsu is the one that "over gifted" him with the power.
Thus going back to, if you want to play in society, then do. If the 'restrictions' bother you too much, then don't. It is up to you.
James Jacob said in another post I made that witch patrons can be something like Apsu, and they don’t have to be mysterious. That’s just what the usual or typical witch patron is, but it isn’t the hard across the board rule
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
⠀➤ VAs are human beings and can be wrong.
⠀➤ Obviously James Jacobs is correct; while his words can lend tons of support to an argument he doesn't actually dictate PFS campaign rules.
⠀➤ There are lots of different communities in PFS, each with its own vibe… find your people.
⠀➤ You should own the source material for PFS and can therefore read or reference the quoted flavor text for yourself; good habit to double-check sources instead of taking stuff at face value. It helps us all learn when we can share knowledge and as a brand new player, you can totally contribute.
|
|
I disagree that those are "functionally indistinguishable in PFS".
Very occasionally specifics might make a difference.
Example where it probably wouldn't make a difference.
"Followers of Shelyn automatically recognize the depiction of her in the mural."
Example of where it probably would make a difference.
"Due to the sanctity of the Holy Sculpture room, followers of Shelyn get a +1 circumstance bonus to their Spell DCs"
Solely for the sake of discussion while I wait for something IRL, both of my examples might worship Shelyn (or both might not), since we're talking about the source of a power. I could have a witch who worships Shelyn whose patron is some nebulous source, which I believe is identical mechanically to my having a witch who worships Shelyn whose patron is, in my head canon, a powerful night hag, whether secretly and not know to my witch or even overtly and known to my witch.
What would be different is having a witch who worships <insert random sketchy but PFS-legal deity> who claims falsely to be a worshipper of Shelyn, whatever the source of their power or their awareness of the source of their power.
A patron is not required to be the character's deity or for the character to have a deity at all.
|
Contributor
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Doug said it all better than I can.
According to Hedron, a VA officer in the RFC server, I can’t play that witch of Apsu “ At your own table, you can turn the entire rulebook on its head. I think Society play is the only place where it is enforced by an outside force.” And when I complained about how stupid it was he said to just not play PFS
I do not know your history on the RFC Discord Server, but something tells me that the above conversation is more about that history than about your question about witch patrons of Apsu, particularly since you asked if you could meet with your patron (something the setup of PFS does not allow for) and then complained about how stupid the rules were.
When people get frustrated with a pattern of behavior, it can become easy to only to see the pattern and not see the question for what it is. I'm really hoping you did not bring James Jacob's response into your conversation with the folks at the RFC Discord.
Instead, I'd like to see you break the pattern. Stop approaching this as an instance where you need to always win the argument, build your character, and then ask for help getting into a game. Build that backstory, roleplay and help others with their questions.
I know that PFS is not for everyone, and it may not be for you. But I'm wishing you the best of luck in finding a game and just playing.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
To clarify for everyone in the forum, this is a gross mischaracterization of the discussion, and for everyone who wishes to read it, the discord link to the discussion begins about here on the RfC discord - Linkified.
Editor
|
| 14 people marked this as a favorite. |
But yeah, I should start playing SFS especially after i helped changed a very stupid rule in it lol
As a gentle reply to this, when we change rules we often spend a long time handling them and figuring out how best to correct something, though we always appreciate players bringing things to our attention. However, repeatedly referring PFS standards and rules that were previously listed as "stupid" does come across as unkind and perhaps gives the impression that you're unwilling to listen to those with differing thoughts or opinions.
Venture-Captain, Online—VTT
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
And when I complained about how stupid it was
You have been calling an awful lot of things, rules, and people 'stupid' in a lot of places over the recent days. That's insulting to the writers, developers, editors, and so on and also explicitly against the Community Standards for Society, I strongly recommend that if you dislike something you simply say that rather than resorting to insults and belittling comments, that sort of behaviour isn't acceptable from anyone in Society.
particularly since you asked if you could meet with your patron (something the setup of PFS does not allow for)
I listed that as an example for outside of PFS. Of course PFS isn’t going to let you meet your witch patron, at least not in play
I talked about how I thought the rules prevent witches from meeting with their patron throughout a home non-pfs campaign
And then I also talked about how we should be allowed, as part of our character’s backstory, had our character meet face to face with their patron in order to make the pact… so basically meeting their patron in their backstory before they became an adventurer and as such not during any actual sessions
That got formatted weirdly
The part starting with “I listed that” is the start of my reply
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I listed that as an example for outside of PFS. Of course PFS isn’t going to let you meet your witch patron, at least not in play
I talked about how I thought the rules prevent witches from meeting with their patron throughout a home non-pfs campaign
And then I also talked about how we should be allowed, as part of our character’s backstory, had our character meet face to face with their patron in order to make the pact… so basically meeting their patron in their backstory before they became an adventurer and as such not during any actual sessions
This is the PFS forum. However that GM can do whatever they want in their own campaign and may have strong narrative justifications for these decisions.
If the setting flavor doesn't match your expectations, you as a player are welcome to find a different game.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I listed that as an example for outside of PFS. Of course PFS isn’t going to let you meet your witch patron, at least not in play
I talked about how I thought the rules prevent witches from meeting with their patron throughout a home non-pfs campaign
And then I also talked about how we should be allowed, as part of our character’s backstory, had our character meet face to face with their patron in order to make the pact… so basically meeting their patron in their backstory before they became an adventurer and as such not during any actual sessions
Look bud, you are in the Organized Play section of the forums. These topics are specifically unrelated.
Secondly, and I do not mean this maliciously, a vast majority of people in PFS couldn't care less what your character's backstory is. There are simply too many characters to care about. Also, there is not enough time in the average slot to delve into it every time. It is possible a GM will make the random backstory you created matter, but very unlikely. This is also a nature of PFS, degrees of impersonalality.
Yet again, I am lead to believe that organized play may not suit the style of play you are looking for.
|
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
My characters care more about the shared history they make with your characters than what your character did before.
"Remember when we all got stuck in black tentacles and you were the only one free and had to kill that vampire alone?"
"No and if you tell anyone that I was able to do that, ESPECIALLY the Decemvirate, I will stab you."
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
But yeah, I should start playing SFS especially after i helped changed a very stupid rule in it lolAs a gentle reply to this, when we change rules we often spend a long time handling them and figuring out how best to correct something, though we always appreciate players bringing things to our attention. However, repeatedly referring PFS standards and rules that were previously listed as "stupid" does come across as unkind and perhaps gives the impression that you're unwilling to listen to those with differing thoughts or opinions.
Well that and repeating the same discussion over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
You are testing people's patience I didn't think you could push.
Remember you arent just dealing with employees but with volunteers who are taking time to try and help you. And your response is to act completely belligerent to these people. Nobody is going to want to run for you. Nobody is going to want to play with you if you continuously act like this.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Coming in late again, as I don't look at the boards on a daily basis.
I suggested playing from the Core rulebook to be a primer for learning the rules, seeing how PFS organized play is, and begin to get the basics down in a few sessions as others at the table help out.
We are a friendly group, and like to put newer players at ease and help them where they need during play. Ask questions and we will do our best to guide you through.
The core races do have some good qualities, and as you seen above, The Kobold is available. I also love the inclusion of the Goblin.
The AcP is also available to get an Ancestry/Heritage that you would want for a character as you get more experienced and have a better grasp of what those choices could do for you and what combinations would click.
Main thing here... Have fun.
Coming in late again, as I don't look at the boards on a daily basis.
I suggested playing from the Core rulebook to be a primer for learning the rules, seeing how PFS organized play is, and begin to get the basics down in a few sessions as others at the table help out.
We are a friendly group, and like to put newer players at ease and help them where they need during play. Ask questions and we will do our best to guide you through.
The core races do have some good qualities, and as you seen above, The Kobold is available. I also love the inclusion of the Goblin.
The AcP is also available to get an Ancestry/Heritage that you would want for a character as you get more experienced and have a better grasp of what those choices could do for you and what combinations would click.
Main thing here... Have fun.
None of the character ideas I have used only stuff from the core Rulebook
I don’t mind paying for the other books but ACP is a huge hurdle for me. Especially when pbp is probably the only way I can play PFS right now
It’ll take years for me to be able to make an iruxi character after making a tiefling character
Unless Paizo announces iruxi being free at the con, which at this point with how popular iruxi seems to be plus with one being a captain now, I think they should do
|
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Coming in late again, as I don't look at the boards on a daily basis.
I suggested playing from the Core rulebook to be a primer for learning the rules, seeing how PFS organized play is, and begin to get the basics down in a few sessions as others at the table help out.
We are a friendly group, and like to put newer players at ease and help them where they need during play. Ask questions and we will do our best to guide you through.
The core races do have some good qualities, and as you seen above, The Kobold is available. I also love the inclusion of the Goblin.
The AcP is also available to get an Ancestry/Heritage that you would want for a character as you get more experienced and have a better grasp of what those choices could do for you and what combinations would click.
Main thing here... Have fun.
None of the character ideas I have used only stuff from the core Rulebook
I don’t mind paying for the other books but ACP is a huge hurdle for me. Especially when pbp is probably the only way I can play PFS right now
It’ll take years for me to be able to make an iruxi character after making a tiefling character
Unless Paizo announces iruxi being free at the con, which at this point with how popular iruxi seems to be plus with one being a captain now, I think they should do
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm primarily a pbp player. I've been playing PFS for less than a year. My oldest table credit is from last August.
As of last week, I have both a poppet and a sprite character.
I, too, am a primary PbP player with plenty of AcP. The OP’s self-inflicted restriction is that they only want to play AcP ancestries and do not want to GM. If you restrict yourself to 1 character to gain AcP, it is true it will take a good while.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It was a pretty direct response. Evidence to refute a specific claim that it was responding to.
(I'd hardly call mentioning that I just bought an expensive ancestry boon that I'd been saving up for "plenty of AcP," anyway. Now I have my sight set on my next target.)