Hey everyone just looking for some advice. We have a player in our group I will call him Q. Q has been with the group since the start and has been known to build the same type of know it all hissy fit character every time. At the moment there are 3 campaigns going on which Q is involved with playing the same type of character (different classes and races, but the same personality.)
All the of other players in the group will take archetypes that add flavor to their characters and not necessarily ones that make them the best, but things that uniqueness. Basically, he dump stats. Buffs up main stats with every character, gets angry every time he takes damage and demands healing, and any rule that happens that isn't in his favor, we have to listen to complaining.
I personally have already had a conversation with Q and said he is aware and will try to correct the issues. Lasted a month. As a GM it's frustrating, feats are taken that break combat and make it not challenging, ruining it for the rest of the players. The rest of the group is able to look at feats or rules and if we think they won't work in favor of keeping the game fun, will make adjustments. When playing a spell caster he will cast spells with Area of Effects regardless if party members are in that area.
I find myself at times figuring out ways to kill his character or try to favor attacking him when I know I shouldn't especially since he always plays a class that should be staying in the back (Ranged or spell casters). One character he has, has a Charisma of 7. There is a monster I am aware of that I could have sneak on him during watch (2 of them) and most likely end the character via Charisma Drain. This wont fix the problem as I am sure he will just make another D*ck character. This goes beyond the character builds, and also involves the snotty arguments that occur when we talk about homebrewing certain rules to balance some game mechanics, if it doesn't favor his character it can't be the right thing to do.
Advice?
I'm with Durinor. I played in a game back in 3.5 where we had a wizard who was very nonplussed by harming members of the party. He found out that my frenzied berserker took exception to that, and at one point in the middle of battle abandoned the field just to go back and kill him. My character spent several months seeing the inside of a jail cell, eventually being released on grounds that his frenzy had blinded him to the reality that it wasn't an enemy lobbing a fireball at him, and that he'd done a lot more good than harm over the course of the battle.
They resurrected the wizard, leaving him with a level penalty, and instead of learning his lesson, he fireballed me again, thinking that I wouldn't attack him again since I'd been threatened with execution if I did it a second time. My reaction was to kill him again and then have the character run away. The GM (finding the whole thing thoroughly amusing) turned my now NPC berserker into a antagonist whose sole purpose was to kill the wizard and keep him dead. The wizard ended up with a two permanent negative level penalty for his arrogance.
To put this more simply, I'd put it in the hands of your players. Other players may galvanize against you if you take direct action against him as a GM, whereas if another player acts against him, it can be solved more simply, and other players will be more likely to side with the person "handling" your problem.
If that doesn't work, kick him out. Good of the few sacrificed for the needs of the many and so on.
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Ever considered the possibility that the Characters are fine and the Player is the D!ck?
That's what it sounds like to me.
The only easy resolution is to not play with Q.
Everything else will require a lot of effort and sacrifice on your part, and by the other players, and at the end of the day Q won't change. They never do.
His characters are fine.
He is not. You don't have fun with him, it's obviously a low op game, and he seems like a dick.
Ask him not to come back next time you play.
If you're using pointbuy, then he'll always have the option to dumpstat. You can either remove the option by changing your stat generation, or find ways to make every stat important during the adventures.
Did you ask him /why/ he makes the same personality over and over?
Its been commented on many times with no reason given. Honestly it's the player I'm aware.
I personally have already had a conversation with Q and said he is aware and will try to correct the issues.
Can I ask what exactly you said to him? At the moment that's left kind of vague. There's a huge difference between telling someone "Hey bro, can you tone it down a bit? We don't tell other people what to do or how to play around here." and "Your being an uncreative jerk with your characters and breaking the game. GOSH!" Hyperbole examples mind you, but the way you tell someone something and what you tell them can really make a difference.
Another thing is that your citing dump stats and creating the same character over and over as a problem. You might want to take a break and think about what is actually creating a problem and needs to be solved, because those two things usually don't kill the fun for people at the table, but someone who's in constant rage mode is a different problem altogether. You might consider that your being a little harsh and nitpicking at every detail, which tends to happen when your bothered with someone, but its not healthy in conversation and it can be a sign that your still not ready to talk things through.
I should add that its still very possible he won't change and that he's honestly a jerk, but I'm trying to err on the side of caution because you tend to get a one sided view of things here on the forum and irl.
Yeah, This looks like a player problem. I personally prefer point buy (Since I've always rolled fairly low on 3d6 things), but this is a player problem. I can understand someone with a 7 charisma , if he plays it (like having people run away from him in fear at his sight, or him swear like a one-eyed carpenter). But problem players are problem players. Since it seems to be fairly frequent, booting him would be the easiest solution.
Either that or have his character enslaved by a demon lord. No resurection there!
If he's sucking away everybody elses fun, just boot him.
Was a conversation staying we as a group thought he was creating arguments and taking things too personally at the table. I do agree i can look for things, but meta gaming (example shouting out don't use fire! They are usually resistant To someone about to cast fire spell on a monster that they have not encountered yet. Telling other players how to play there characters, b@#~$ing they didnt memorize certain spells. I believe these are legitimate issues. Maybe seperating him from the group is the best choice.
The fact that Q demands lots of healing makes me think that maybe Q is concerned with keeping his PCs alive. This also might explain the tendency to make powerful PCs who stay in the back of the party. If you and other DMs tend to "go after" Q's PCs there's a chance that Q could notice this and make efforts to ensure that the PCs are less vulnerable.
My advice is that maybe you could try to get Q to take on the healer role and play a Cleric or maybe a Bard who excels by buffing and healing the rest of the party. If the party ends up saying, "We hate that Q guy. He's always healing us when the monsters have us almost dead and buffing us so that we're able to overcome challenges!" then there's a chance that maybe you just don't like Q.
On the subject of dumping stats, since back in the 2e days groups I've played with have used "Luck Checks". These are Charisma checks which the DM calls for when he wants to see which PC gets "unlucky". That could mean being attacked by a monster, getting pickpocketed, etc. Over time those who dump Charisma often face a lot of extra problems for it. Dumping most other abilities has its own punishments. For instance, be sure to track encumbrance carefully for PCs who dump Str.
Luck check seems like good idea. He has played cleric(diabolist), wanting to be more damage dealing, made a building that removed channel and prefers to use healing wands only to save spells resulting in player death where i had to roll up a healer instead of what i was playing to give support
On the subject of dumping stats, since back in the 2e days groups I've played with have used "Luck Checks". These are Charisma checks which the DM calls for when he wants to see which PC gets "unlucky". That could mean being attacked by a monster, getting pickpocketed, etc. Over time those who dump Charisma often face a lot of extra problems for it. Dumping most other abilities has its own punishments.
So does dumping Cha. No reason to add on.
Diabolist seems like a danger sign since they're usually evil. Playing an evil PC as a jerk might not be too far off. Maybe Paladin would be a good class for this player. It is powerful and good at survival, but a Paladin shouldn't act like a jerk. Maybe the DM could give the PC some "divine guidance" to keep him in line.
Rynjin - Dumping Charisma will reduce your modifiers for certain skills, but that's true of dumping any stat. Dumping other stats generally carries other heavier penalties though. Str affects combat abilities and carrying capacity. Dex affects AC and Reflex saves. Con affects HP and Fort saves. Int lowers skill ranks across the board. Wisdom affects Will saves and the very important Perception skill.
It is up to the DM to target these weaknesses and exploit them for the amusement of all in the group. For instance, we've seen many otherwise powerful PCs succumb to a low Will save.
It is up to the DM to target these weaknesses and exploit them for the amusement of all in the group. For instance, we've seen many otherwise powerful PCs succumb to a low Will save.
Luck isn't something you can really make up for though, unless you add in other things into the game. You can make up for most of the things you named, you can even make up for a low charisma. That's where it really hits hard. Your also doing the act entirely to punish, rather than make the game more fun. That's bad mojo.
The diabolist was allowed as the campaign was to have good and evil characters mixed trying to work together...regardless how that character is played is the same as every character is played.
I will call him Q. Q
Ahah, I see what you did there.
Anyways, if he doesn't change his act, I'd say kill off his character once as a subtle warning. You say he plays ranged PCs and spellcasters - the morale/strategy for half the monsters I've seen listed is "targets spellcasters and obvious healers first". Monsters are ~supposed~ to try and target the obvious squishies/glass cannons. Because they're not dumb.
It's now up to the rest of the players whether they want to save him. If this doesn't work: ban him. Or alter your pointbuy system. I refuse to allow players to go into the negatives without good reason, and even then only to one stat, and never below 8.
MrSin - The Luck Check is part of our Tradition. There are no rules to determine stuff like who the big monster uses Improved Vital Strike on. Most of us find this rule amusing and refer to the opposed Charisma checks as an "ugly off".
If I were going to drop Luck Checks it would be because they help Sorcerers and Oracles more than they "punish" people who dump Charisma. PCs who aren't Charisma based are usually dealing with a pretty narrow band of scores from -2 to +1, so the negative effects on the "dumpers" are pretty minimal mechanically speaking. Our laughter when somebody with a 7 Charisma rolls low and has problems is maximized though. Maybe that helps to repair whatever "damage" dumping does to game balance.
Parable - Some players just won't change. We have a guy in our area who always plays his PCs as warped, evil, and frankly a little disturbing. His Cleric of a good aligned goddess of Healing repeatedly raped NPC prisoners, for instance. This is a married guy who seems to be a nice enough person, but for some reason his PCs are universally foulmouthed psychopaths. Most of them are also very powerful. He can actually be a lot of fun at times, but after a while it gets hard to handle.
I'd say kill off his character once as a subtle warning.
How is that going to help exactly? Doesn't sound too subtle to me either...
Maybe that helps to repair whatever "damage" dumping does to game balance.
That infers there's a problem with dumping stats.
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It worked for Gary Gygax.
It worked for Gary Gygax.
He never played Pathfinder? I don't see the point your making.
Advice?
You said you talked to him once about it...and he did change his ways for about a month before backsliding into his old ways....I would think that would be atleast a positive sign as in Q did try to cvhange.
I would talk to Q again about it. Point it out that he baclslide to his old ways. It maybe just different play styles and such. I think there is a chance to 'fix' this by talking to him...and keep talking to him. Maybe even set up a sign for him to realize he is backsliding.
Though you should be prepared to part ways with Q if nothing get resolved.
In-game solutions rarely work for out-of-game problems. I highly suggest that if Q isn't willing to work towards the fun of the overall group, then maybe this isn't the group for him.
I usually dislike recommending to strangers that they jettison people from their groups, but from what you've said it sounds like you've made an honest effort to try and correct the issue, and he refuses to curb his behavior. At some point you have to cut your losses. :(
How do the other members of the group feel about this problem player? If they, like you, are frustrated with how he plays then I suggest that your next choice is clear.
Tell the guy to pound sand. Your gaming group will be better for it.
We had a similar situation at my home game. A friend of 25+ years was just annoying the heck out of everyone in 3 ways:
1. He was always a healer, but you almost had to beg him for heals. In retrospect, I believe he enjoyed having that power over people.
2. He would sit around and get drunk, then make poor choices, and want to act out certain elements of the game on real people (e.g. touching their faces, arms bars, acting out trying to use intimidation, critiquing other peoples' actions)
3. Despite having the most HP, maxed out scores, and highest AC, he would always linger in the back and hesitate to engage anything he perceived as dangerous to his guy.
One day, he didn't make the season (which was very unusual for him). We had such a great time, played 3-4 hours longer, and had such great group chemistry, that he was asked not to come back anymore for roleplaying days.
He has yet to speak to any of us since. His loss.
My point is, play without him for a game and if it feels like a concrete block has been lifted off your chest, you know what the decision should be.
Lincoln hills, your numbered list really drives the point home. And i agree
My point is, play without him for a game and if it feels like a concrete block has been lifted off your chest, you know what the decision should be.
^ this
It sounds like you're genuinely trying to work with him.
Just for the sake of fairness and clarity, I'd give him one more warning. Tell him this is a team game and the point is for everyone to have fun. If he's a detriment to team fun again-- he'll be booted.
Its basically the same as what everyone else is saying, just with the clarity of a warning, with a consequence first. I suspect he'll try for a while, and then lapse again. But then when you toss him, everyone will be clear why.
And who knows, maybe he'll surprise you this time?
I always feel that open communication between players and their GM is the key to everyone being happy. If Q is the one causing problems talk to him outside of the game in a manner which isn't confrontational so he doesn't get think you are attacking him. Express your concerns with his playing style, give him examples and provide some solutions to how he could resolve them. Let it be know that if he doesn't tone it down or you will be asking him to leave the game which will allow you to find someone more suited to your game style and wish him the best of luck in the future.