I've been looking into Mage Armor recently, trying to find a way to increase my low dex wizard's AC. From everything I'm seeing Mage Armor is actively worthless after 7th level, barring specific circumstances (Like having your clothes stolen while you still have spells memorized, or a scroll/wand in your back pocket that wasn't stolen for some reason)
I'm using Wizard progression below, because that's what I'm familiar with.
IB is Item Bonus
1st level Mage Armor (available at Level 1) grants a +1 IB to AC
+1 Explorer's Clothes (available before Level 5) grants a +1 IB to AC
4th level Mage Armor (available at Level 7) grants a +1 IB to AC and Saves
+1 Resilient Explorer's Clothes (available before Level 8) grants a +1 IB to AC and Saves
6th level Mage Armor (available at Level 11) grants a +2 IB to AC and +1 to Saves
+2 Resilient Explorer's Clothes (available before Level 11) grants a +2 IB to AC and +1 to Saves
8th level Mage Armor (available at Level 15) grants a +2 IB to AC and Saves
+2 Greater Resilient Explorer's Clothes (available before Level 14) grants a +2 IB to AC and Saves
10th level Mage Armor (available at level 19) grants a +3 IB to AC and Saves
+3 Greater Resilient Explorer's Clothes (available before Level 20) grants a +3 IB to AC and +2 to Saves
+3 Major Resilient Explorer's Clothes (available before Level 20) grants a +3 IB to AC and Saves
So, the Wizard only gains ANY benefit from Mage Armor before reaching level 8 and after reaching Level 19 (and then only if they want to burn an extremely valuable spell slot on +3 Armor and Saves). It's also important to note that you can, in theory, find potency runes and resiliency runes before their level, thereby making Mage Armor even more useless.
Am I understanding this correctly? Does it stack with Potency and Resiliency runes on Explorer's Clothes? Is there some use case for Mage Armor, or did Paizo nerf it into the ground?
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Well, it takes a top level spell slot each day you use it, but the other option is that you don’t buy armor runes and use that gold for something else.
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Well, it takes a top level spell slot each day you use it, but the other option is that you don’t buy armor runes and use that gold for something else.
I don't know that a minor increase to AC for the day is a great use of your limited spell slots, but I suppose it depends on your group.
Depending on the level you get it at, you can also save money by purchasing a wand of Mage Armor rather than paying to rune up your clothes, as well.
Edit: heck, if leveling is particularly brisque in your campaign you might even save more money by paying for scads of scrolls, instead.
-- +1 AC --
Mage Armor 1 Scroll: 4gMage Armor 1 wand: 60g
+1 Rune: 160g
-- +1 AC / +1 Saves --
Mage Armor 4 Scroll: 70g
Mage Armor 4 wand: 700g
+1 Rune + Resilience Rune: 500g
-- +2 AC / +1 Saves --
Mage Armor 6 Scroll: 300g
Mage Armor 6 wand: 3,000g
+2 Rune + Resilience Rune: 1,220g
-- +2 AC / +2 Saves --
Mage Armor 8 Scroll: 1,300g
Mage Armor 8 wand: 15,000g
+2 Rune + Greater Resilience Rune: 4,500g
-- +3 AC / +2 Saves --
+3 Rune + Greater Resilience Rune: 24,000g
-- +3 AC / +3 Saves --
Mage Armor 10 Scroll: 8,000g
Mage Armor 10 Wand: N/A
+3 Rune + Major Resilience Rune: 70,000g
So, a 1st level Mage Armor wand is a stupidly good value, but a level 4, 6 and 8 wand are terrible comparative values.
A level 1 scroll isn't better than wand unless you'll cast fewer than 15 times.
A level 4 scroll isn't better than Potency + Resilience unless you'll cast fewer than 7 times.
Level 6 and 8 scrolls aren't better than potency + resilience unless you'll cast fewer than 3 times.
A level 10 scroll isn't better than Potency + Resilience unless you'll be casting fewer than 9 times.
I think it's meant to be an option
Not an optimal decision so much as, you want other things and are willing to sacrifice the spell slot
It's something you can afford on a spell blender wizard but otherwise has no value.
One thing you'll quickly learn about pf2e is that there are a handful of useful spells to know, a handful of useful spells to have as wands or scrolls and most everything else isn't worth a second glance.
I'm n3kkid AND all powerful! Fear me!!!
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Magic Weapon becomes a lot less valuable after character level 4 too.
I may be wrong. But currently my thought is for my low AC wizard, wield an actual shield for when Cantrip is down. And invest in spells or abilities that make you hard to hit rather than just bumping your ac. Any form of concealment is great
a 19th level wizard can get a lot done in a day. Different campaigns will vary, but getting 9 useful castings out of Mage armor before the end of the campaign between levels 19 and 20 is often pretty unlikely. Some APs will see most of the level 20 action happening over the course of one day.
If you do more single big encounters over the course of hexploration, than probably runes or a wand are the way to go. If you do a lot of set dungeons with multiple encounters in a day, you probably are not casting the spell more than 3 times per level of play.
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I think one way or another, a wizard is going to have to pay for survivability. There are ways to not need much Dex but they're going to cost you something else.
I wouldn't consider Mage Armor a solution for low Dex wizards; it's not that different from a very light armor, which also wants high Dex.
For a low Dex wizard I'd look at Sentinel or Champion dedications. For a medium or high Dex wizard, I'd look at Rogue dedication or light armor proficiency general feat.
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Yeah, mage armor isn't meant to pair with low-Dex. That's the first issue I see. Default wizard, whether using explorers clothing or mage still want to have a decent dex. Probably second only to int.
Unless you plan to spend some feats on armor proficiency and then the Sentinel dedication so you can rock heavy armor with a low Dex.
I agree that sacrificing one of your highest level spells each day to make armor probably isn't going to work well. Conversely though, wizards with a high dex and explorers clothing are going to end up at roughly the same AC as anyone who isn't a champion or monk.
I think one way or another, a wizard is going to have to pay for survivability. There are ways to not need much Dex but they're going to cost you something else.
I wouldn't consider Mage Armor a solution for low Dex wizards; it's not that different from a very light armor, which also wants high Dex.
For a low Dex wizard I'd look at Sentinel or Champion dedications. For a medium or high Dex wizard, I'd look at Rogue dedication or light armor proficiency general feat.
And this is why I'm at 14 ac
Because I'm selfish with what I want my character to have as didn't want to sacrifice anything to get it.
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At low levels I think wizards (and cloistered clerics, witches, psychics..) have to live with being a clothie caster. As in, it's a strain to achieve the normal (dex+armor)=5 AC that other classes get. You're vulnerable and you should take it into account in your tactics. You might just decide you can live with that (precariously..)
With Mage Armor and a 16 Dex you'll still start at AC 17 at level 1, while light armor users can start at 18. And getting Dex 16 at level 1 involves sacrificing something else.
There are some options though;
* Level 1 human wizard, use a general feat for light armor and wear studded leather (+2 AC), already better than mage armor at the cost of some bulk and skill penalty.
* Level 1 ancient elf, take rogue dedication for light armor
* Level 2 anyone else, take rogue dedication for light armor, or sentinel for medium armor
* Level 2 human, use both human feats for general armor feats and sentinel dedication for heavy armor
* Level 1 ancient elf or level 2 anyone else, champion dedication for heavy armor
* Level 3 take a general feat for light armor
Also look into miss chance spells like Mirror Image. Those don't need to use highest level spell slots, though they don't last all day either.
You may also want to use damage reduction spells like Barkskin or Stoneskin. Those wouldn't need to be highest level slots, but the higher the better.
Low AC as a wizard is manageable. I have done it on 3 out of the 5 wizards I have played. The only wizard I had killed was killed by repeated saving throw failures, not attacks vs AC. Usually I find shield and mirror image to be enough defense for a wizard in encounters, but a whole lot depends on party composition. With a paladin or champion, getting hit once or twice an encounter is usually a good thing for the party. In parties with one, I will try to stay close to the front even if it occasionally means getting attacked. In a more cautious party staying in cover or concealment and hiding at the end of every round is often enough to keep enemies from wanting to waste a round attacking you at all. Stealth is almost an essential skill on a wizard so I frequently make that my first or second skill boosted and covering for a point or two less of Dexterity (+1 or +2 instead of +3).
It is the saving throw boosting items/spells that really become important not to sleep on for too long.Perhaps unintuitively, it is very likely that a combination of using mage armor at certain levels, and buying runes at other levels is probably the most efficient way to not break the bank as a wizard trying to get runes that other characters in the party probably need first, but then switching out of the spell once the runes are not a big deal cost wise. This actually fits the wizard's whole thing pretty well. Having the spell in your book is useful sometimes, then you stop memorizing it for a while, then you start memorizing it again.
I very strongly doubt that memorizing it as a level 10 slot would ever be a worse economic deal than spending the kingdom's worth of gold for major resilient runes on a +3 potency rune. you could get like 8 level 7 wands or almost 2 level 9 wands for that same cost, you could make 4 scrolls of level 10 mage armor for half the cost and probably be covered for the entire remaining campaign, or you could just buy one and use it for "the day it is all going down" which often is 1 day at level 20. At this point you are probably sitting on a +2 resilient rune anyway so it is actually just a difference of +1 to AC and saves, something you probably do want to take care of in the big boss end fight, but not something you will desperately feel in less than severe encounters.
It is good in a few situations.
- you want the extra investment slot
- you plan on casting it from a slot, and using the extra gold for multiple good value wands/scrolls of lower levels than your current level
- your armour was taken/destroyed (my party had a bard who lost his armour to a corrosive rune at 16, so it was an expensive replacement)
- you are crafting the scrolls, since you can more quickly reach 50% discount with consumables (remember also that crafting doesn't have to be consecutive days)
- you save your limited casts of it for days where you know you will be less able to use your usual avoidance tactics to out position attacks.
But yes it isn't always useful.
Personally I think people get a bit hung up on characters having maxed defenses if they are in the backline. Between items/effects that give concealed/hidden, quickened effects giving the ability to get behind total cover and back... as well as martials being a very real threat on the front line.
I was horrified when a cleric joined my game with Abomination Vaults game with 7 less AC than the fighter RPing as an old man inspired by deckard cain, he did fine though and accepted that if he got hit it was likely a crit. He just, you know, actively avoided letting himself be put in situations where he would be hit often and kept himself topped up HP wise.
What if mage armor instead gave an item bonus to AC = to 5 - Dex mod? (Minimum 0.)
But yes it isn't always useful.
I guess ultimately my problem with Mage Armor is that due to the way it functions, it's not even as good as Light Armor, when in previous editions it was as good as Medium Armor.
I'm running into the situation where if we're ever fighting a boss, it's going to guaranteed crit me, and since the bosses are designed to be a threat to martials, they're liable to murder me in one round due to multiattack. We had a boss fight where I got surprise swallow'd whole and I realized that I was actually safer inside the boss because it could only damage me once per round, instead of up to 3 times.
What if mage armor instead gave an item bonus to AC = to 5 - Dex mod? (Minimum 0.)
The issue with Mage Armor is that it doesn't count as real armor, so you can't apply runes to it, meaning that Adventurer's Clothes + Runes invalidates Mage Armor. You cannot benefit from AC + Rune and Mage Armor at the same time.
So it's worse than the worst Light Armor.
If it gave a +2/+3/+4 it would at least be on par with leather.
If it increased AC instead of Granting it, it would also be viable, but then it would technically be usable with regular armor, which would probably be considered broken.
Buying runes at other levels is probably the most efficient way to not break the bank
The game is *designed* around the party gaining +3 runes by level 18, so you're liable to keep finding enemies wearing +1/+2/+3 armor runes, or finding it by that point, unless you're running homebrew... But in order to make use of the game's encounter building rules, your party should have the requisite plusses by the requisite levels.
Also look into miss chance spells like Mirror Image.
I need to start using them. I remember being frustrated with the fact that Mirror Images are destroyed even if they miss, which is why I ended up not taking it, but I suppose it would increase my survivability.
In addition, thanks to how limited the spell slots are, I feel like I'm completely wasting a spell slot on Mage Armor since it adds a piddly +1 to my AC, which *technically* decreases my chances of getting hit, but only meaningfully decreases my chances of getting crit, and I would rather prepare useful utility spells instead.
Sadly making scrolls isn't very viable because I'm playing Agents of Edgewatch and there's very little downtime between jobs.
There are some options though
Sadly all of my feats at the moment are spoken for, and I personally consider a feat that only grants light armor to be a complete waste of a feat, since it tops out at 1 point better than my Wand of Mage Armor.
I'm considering stepping into Martial Artist for Mountain Stance and its chain of feats, since that gives me the ability to bump my AC up by 4, then 6, without having to wear armor, and my musclewizard has been enjoying grappling and handcuffing people, so I think it'll move nicely into Wrestler.
The other thing I'm considering is Champion Dedication, but champion feels like a... weird... wrong direction to take him. He's very scholarly, not particularly zealous.
So it's worse than the worst Light Armor.
If it gave a +2/+3/+4 it would at least be on par with leather.
Well, it does give increased bonuses at higher spell levels.
It has a higher Dex cap than leather armor does. So with maximum Dex, you can have equivalent AC as you can with leather armor. Though I think it is delayed by a few levels from when the armor runes come available.
And that also requires maximized Dex. Which does cost something from the character build.
Also look into miss chance spells like Mirror Image.I need to start using them. I remember being frustrated with the fact that Mirror Images are destroyed even if they miss, which is why I ended up not taking it, but I suppose it would increase my survivability.
Yes, Mirror Image is great. Not so good for wading into melee though. Cast it and then make it costly for the enemies - make them have to have to come over and attack you. Preferably if they have to move past your allies to do it.
I'm considering stepping into Martial Artist for Mountain Stance and its chain of feats, since that gives me the ability to bump my AC up by 4, then 6, without having to wear armor, and my musclewizard has been enjoying grappling and handcuffing people, so I think it'll move nicely into Wrestler.
That would be a good plan too for a high strength, low dexterity spellcaster.
That would be a good plan too for a high strength, low dexterity spellcaster.
I'm planning on retraining the feats I've invested in Familiar, since they're apparently not very useful unless you're doing something specific that I'm definitely not doing.
Which is going to be a shame since I love my calligraphy wyrm and he feels very flavorful for my librarian nerd wizard.
That would be a good plan too for a high strength, low dexterity spellcaster.I'm planning on retraining the feats I've invested in Familiar, since they're apparently not very useful unless you're doing something specific that I'm definitely not doing.
Seems reasonable. I also find it difficult to find combat uses for my familiar.
*sticks out tongue*
It's not my fault. That's just the contract rules that I have to work under.
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What if mage armor instead gave an item bonus to AC = to 5 - Dex mod? (Minimum 0.)
I'm not sure I'd like that, or call it fair.
Non-casters (or those without access to mage armor) still need to invest something into dex to hit that AC cap.
And while spending 1 of your few top level spell slots each day to maintain your protection is a cost, it's not as much cost as having to divert ability score resources into dex.
I do understand that this makes playing a high strength wizard difficult at low level because you're giving yourself terrible dex to focus on other parts of the character.
All I can suggest is spending a feat in light armor proficiency and retraining it later. And don't completely ignore dex (start with at least 12 dex). This will get you a starting AC of 16.
Seems reasonable. I also find it difficult to find combat uses for my familiar.That would be a good plan too for a high strength, low dexterity spellcaster.I'm planning on retraining the feats I've invested in Familiar, since they're apparently not very useful unless you're doing something specific that I'm definitely not doing.
The best use I can see for them is giving them manual dexterity and commanding them to hold and use items for/on you, since it would save you the action of digging them out, then another action for using them.
Spell delivery is nice, but it has a hard limit of 25 feet because casting almost every spell is arbitrarily 2 actions, and you need to spend one action commanding them to deliver the spell.
Non-casters (or those without access to mage armor) still need to invest something into dex to hit that AC cap.
Are there any non-casters who don't at least get access to Light armor, which caps out at +2 AC (+ Runes) and +5 dex bonus, vs Mage Armor which caps out at +3, but cannot use runes?
Spell delivery is nice, but it has a hard limit of 25 feet because casting almost every spell is arbitrarily 2 actions, and you need to spend one action commanding them to deliver the spell.
It is a bit ambiguous and contested as a ruling, but many GMs that I know allow the commanding of the Familiar to be a subordinate action of Spell Delivery.
If your familiar is in your space, you can cast a spell with a range of touch, transfer its power to your familiar, and command the familiar to deliver the spell.
All of that is part of the same Master Ability that the Familiar's master can use.
Are there any non-casters who don't at least get access to Light armor, which caps out at +2 AC (+ Runes) and +5 dex bonus, vs Mage Armor which caps out at +3, but cannot use runes?
Monk
My problem with Spell Delivery is that I end up ending my turn next to an enemy that now considers me to be a noticeable threat.
The best use I can see for them is giving them manual dexterity and commanding them to hold and use items for/on you, since it would save you the action of digging them out, then another action for using them.
Familiars can't use [activate] items: Ask a Paizo Designer #3: Familiar Actions
The best use I can see for them is giving them manual dexterity and commanding them to hold and use items for/on you, since it would save you the action of digging them out, then another action for using them.Familiars can't use [activate] items: Ask a Paizo Designer #3: Familiar Actions
That's unbelievably stupid. It's even stupider that it's hidden away in a section on items, instead of pointed out in the familiar section, and also absolutely nonsensical. If that's the case, Familiars are even more useless.
I genuinely cannot think of a justifiable use for them unless you're a Witch.
My problem with Spell Delivery is that I end up ending my turn next to an enemy that now considers me to be a noticeable threat.
Just smooth down your fur and look real cute.
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I genuinely cannot think of a justifiable use for them unless you're a Witch.
You can use them to give bonuses to your skills or to mimic skill feats: Accompanist, Ambassador, Partner in Crime, Second Opinion, Snoop and Threat Display. Then you have Master Abilities like Cantrip Connection, Familiar Focus, Innate Surge [can get you a free casting of a 10th level spell], Restorative Familiar and Spell Battery. And you can pick and choose which ones you want for the day.
You just have to change your way of thinking about them: they are a pretty good item and a bad animal. As long as you treat them as a magical pet rock, it's fine.
Corgi mount familiar (I hope) will make an okay mount for my sprite fighter. I'm concerned about it's hit points, but since it will have my AC and saves it should be decently defended. As long as a pick up life link (from a mechanical perspective) I'm going to think of it as an extension of myself that gives me extra HP and extra actions to move.
However, for my specific character it's really the RP I'm after.
I genuinely cannot think of a justifiable use for them unless you're a Witch.You can use them to give bonuses to your skills or to mimic skill feats: Accompanist, Ambassador, Partner in Crime, Second Opinion, Snoop and Threat Display. Then you have Master Abilities like Cantrip Connection, Familiar Focus, Innate Surge [can get you a free casting of a 10th level spell], Restorative Familiar and Spell Battery. And you can pick and choose which ones you want for the day.
You just have to change your way of thinking about them: they are a pretty good item and a bad animal. As long as you treat them as a magical pet rock, it's fine.
Hmm. I guess some of those might be useful. I'd need to put another point into Familiar points to use any of them, though, since I've got a Calligraphy Wyrm, which is eating up all 6 of my current ones.
Corgi mount familiar (I hope) will make an okay mount for my sprite fighter. I'm concerned about it's hit points, but since it will have my AC and saves it should be decently defended. As long as a pick up life link (from a mechanical perspective) I'm going to think of it as an extension of myself that gives me extra HP and extra actions to move.
However, for my specific character it's really the RP I'm after.
I got mine primarily for RP, and was hoping I could find a good use for him, but the restrictions on Familiars being able to activate items kind of kills any good reason for him to have Manual Dexterity, and I'm a little frustrated.
I also got mine for flavor, since my wizard is a big book nerd, and a calligraphy wyrm is essentially a living pen.
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I'd need to put another point into Familiar points to use any of them, though, since I've got a Calligraphy Wyrm, which is eating up all 6 of my current ones.
6 abilities is a bit more investment than I'd personally spend for an RP effect. The wyrm DOES have loads of flavor, but it's too rich for my blood.
Mirror image is best used behind another obfuscation tool, your invisibility type abilities or even the humble mist form elixir imo.
As they come into play during the targeting phase and mirror image occurs during the hit determination phase. (The idea of invisible multiple images being harder to hit does hurt a tad though ;) )
But yes it isn't always useful.I guess ultimately my problem with Mage Armor is that due to the way it functions, it's not even as good as Light Armor, when in previous editions it was as good as Medium Armor.
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Neither of those is entirely true. Mage armor provides the same armor bonus as, say, leather armor in PF2. Technically it allows a higher dex cap, though practically you can't hit it on a wizard until level 15. Meanwhile, PF2 mage armor was only as good as a a chain shirt (the best light armor) or an armored coat (the worst medium.) It wasn't as good as a breast plate by any stretch of the imagination.
But also, somethings are just different enough to make it apples and oranges. Less of your ac comes from item bonuses in PF2. And in PF1, point buy meant investing in a good dexterity score likely made your spell score suffer. That's not the case anymore.
And while it is true that Mage Armor isn't a good idea if you're getting runes with the clockwork efficiency of the automatic bonus progression, in actual play that may not be the case. You might not have the money, shop access, or time to get runes for your entire party as soon as the wealth by level table says they are available. Mage Armor is basically a back up plan.
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u right. That's why I'm considering trading him out.
Mirror image is best used behind another obfuscation tool, your invisibility type abilities or even the humble mist form elixir imo.
As they come into play during the targeting phase and mirror image occurs during the hit determination phase. (The idea of invisible multiple images being harder to hit does hurt a tad though ;) )
Things to consider, certainly. Probably need to grab a couple scrolls of that.
And while it is true that Mage Armor isn't a good idea if you're getting runes with the clockwork efficiency of the automatic bonus progression, in actual play that may not be the case. You might not have the money, shop access, or time to get runes for your entire party as soon as the wealth by level table says they are available. Mage Armor is basically a back up plan.But yes it isn't always useful.I guess ultimately my problem with Mage Armor is that due to the way it functions, it's not even as good as Light Armor, when in previous editions it was as good as Medium Armor.
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The idea that it only works as a backup plan is kind of my problem. If something exists as a contingency in case you're not able to gear up as intended, then why does it exist at all?
It's the inferior of the two options when put side by side, it only shines in weird specific gameplay situations.
Ironically, using the Automatic Bonus Progression rules makes Mage Armor objectively better, putting it on par with real armor with runes, highlighting the issue with the spell.
Ironically, using the Automatic Bonus Progression rules makes Mage Armor objectively better, putting it on par with real armor with runes, highlighting the issue with the spell.
I have always read that Automatic Bonus Progression removes Mage Armor from the game pretty much entirely.
ABP removes all item bonuses from things like spells and mutagens. The only item bonus that is left is the item bonus from armor. Mage Armor is a spell - not armor.
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For a wizard at low levels, Mage Armor is +1 item bonus to AC. The cost is 1/5 of your starting spells. Very minimal.
After that, even if you leave it in the spellbook and never prepare it again it costs nothing.
My wizards figure it is a good deal until they can afford an armor rune. That is generally 5th level.
Lots of wizards quit using certain spells after they are two levels below their highest spell slot.
with the exception of the heal spell really (and maybe harm if your party heals with negative damage), there are almost no spells in PF2 that you want to be carrying around and using the same way from level 1 to level 20. Mage armor has numerous levels where it is a much more economic option than hurrying to get the next level of fundamental rune for your armor. If it was always better than buying runes, it would pretty much become a spell slot tax on all arcane casters.
The idea that it only works as a backup plan is kind of my problem. If something exists as a contingency in case you're not able to gear up as intended, then why does it exist at all?
It's the inferior of the two options when put side by side, it only shines in weird specific gameplay situations.
Because you may want to use them in those weird specific situations? It isn't like Mage Armor is unique as far as 1st level spells which stop being optimal overtime. (Magic Weapons, Burning Hands or almost any damage spell) Or for just replacing things you can do with equipment. (Magic Weapon again, Know Direction, Healing Plaster, Stabilize, Create Food and Water, Fabricate, Mending, Restyle.) Or that occupies a pretty small niche. (Share Lore, Unseen Servant.)
There are actually remarkably few spells which are must have, and they don't tend to align with their PF1 equivalents. Even the all powerful Haste has become something which is good in certain parties but not others.
I have always read that Automatic Bonus Progression removes Mage Armor from the game pretty much entirely.
ABP removes all item bonuses from things like spells and mutagens. The only item bonus that is left is the item bonus from armor. Mage Armor is a spell - not armor.
Source Gamemastery Guide pg. 196
This variant removes the item bonus to rolls and DCs usually provided by magic items (with the exception of armor’s item bonus) and replaces it with a new kind of bonus—potency—to reflect a character’s innate ability instead. In this variant, magic items, if they exist at all, can provide unique special abilities rather than numerical increases.[i/]Nope, it removes the item bonuses and DCs usually provided by magic [i]items it never mentions spells.
For a wizard at low levels, Mage Armor is +1 item bonus to AC. The cost is 1/5 of your starting spells. Very minimal.
After that, even if you leave it in the spellbook and never prepare it again it costs nothing.
My wizards figure it is a good deal until they can afford an armor rune. That is generally 5th level.
Lots of wizards quit using certain spells after they are two levels below their highest spell slot.
But the vast majority of my spell slots are going to be two levels below their highest spell slot. Are you saying that it's fine for my low level spells to just be worthless after a point? That doesn't seem right.
with the exception of the heal spell really (and maybe harm if your party heals with negative damage), there are almost no spells in PF2 that you want to be carrying around and using the same way from level 1 to level 20. Mage armor has numerous levels where it is a much more economic option than hurrying to get the next level of fundamental rune for your armor. If it was always better than buying runes, it would pretty much become a spell slot tax on all arcane casters.
Mage Armor is meant to be Mage Armor but as it stands, it's no better than enchanted robes. It fails to sell the fantasy, and it doesn't even come close to being as valuable as some of the other higher level spells you'd need to eschew in order to gain access to it's higher level versions.
They should be available at least one level before the armor runes, or they should be equivalent to or better than the armor runes. It's not a spell slot tax, it's a consideration.
Do you save the money and spend a slot on Mage Armor, or do you free up your slot and pay out for an equivalent or slightly worse magic item?
As it stands, Mage Armor is only an option if you're flat broke, somehow caught with the ability to cast spells but with your equipment stolen, or desperately need some other magic item invested.
Because you may want to use them in those weird specific situations? It isn't like Mage Armor is unique as far as 1st level spells which stop being optimal overtime. (Magic Weapons, Burning Hands or almost any damage spell) Or for just replacing things you can do with equipment. (Magic Weapon again, Know Direction, Healing Plaster, Stabilize, Create Food and Water, Fabricate, Mending, Restyle.) Or that occupies a pretty small niche. (Share Lore, Unseen Servant.)
There are actually remarkably few spells which are must have, and they don't tend to align with their PF1 equivalents. Even the all powerful Haste has become something which is good in certain parties but not others.
I genuinely cannot think of an instance where Haste is not extremely useful, barring it's weird clause of not being able to use non-land-based movement for the extra Stride.
I take issue with the idea that spells just become less useful as you level up, especially given how much PF2 has cut down the number of spells you have per day.
it doesn't even come close to being as valuable as some of the other higher level spells you'd need to eschew in order to gain access to it's higher level versions.
The wording of this is strange. It makes me think that there is some confusion about how spell heightening works.
But the vast majority of my spell slots are going to be two levels below their highest spell slot. Are you saying that it's fine for my low level spells to just be worthless after a point? That doesn't seem right.For a wizard at low levels, Mage Armor is +1 item bonus to AC. The cost is 1/5 of your starting spells. Very minimal.
After that, even if you leave it in the spellbook and never prepare it again it costs nothing.
My wizards figure it is a good deal until they can afford an armor rune. That is generally 5th level.
Lots of wizards quit using certain spells after they are two levels below their highest spell slot.
In my experience, the use of lower level slots has always been something that evolved as a character leveled. A first level wizard shouldn’t prepare Unseen Servant when going into the dungeon. It really isn’t a problem if you are seventh level.
It is intended that the damaging spells that are heightened aren’t as good as the new spells that come out at that level. You will probably still use them, especially if they match the weaknesses of the creatures that you expect to meet. It takes time and money to get new spells beyond the free ones.
I tend to use the lower level spell slots for defenses that are still effective (such as blur), utility, or detection. Against an invisible stalker, see invisibilty is probably more effective than a 2nd level magic missile.
I genuinely cannot think of an instance where Haste is not extremely useful, barring it's weird clause of not being able to use non-land-based movement for the extra Stride.
-Strides stop being helpful if you're already in melee and don't want to skirmish. One example of that is if the enemy has AoO.
-Another strike at -10 is generally not a very productive value add. Your slot and actions would probably be better spent on a lightning bolt or fear spell. Most martials should be coming up with 3rd actions to use instead, but there's limits to those like Demoralize only working once per enemy.
-If your attack routine is based around using bespoke strikes, such as a fighter built around open and press actions, you aren't getting as much value.
So haste is really good for builds like flurry rangers, magus, Thaumaturge, battle oracles, or inventors. It is less good on many non-shield fighters or champions, barbarians, monks, or precision rangers.