You have to wait a level for any spell slots.
Not everything works well with everything. Some combinations are just a bad idea. Don't do them.
Your best bet is to ask your GM to remove the slot loss. Pyschic has few enough spells as it is.
Yeah, I am mildly surprised that it doesn't have the same type of restriction that Flexible Spellcaster does - where it only works with spellcasters that get the same number of spell slots as a cleric or wizard.
I wouldn't recommend Wellspring Mage with Summoner either.
Yeah, I am mildly surprised that it doesn't have the same type of restriction that Flexible Spellcaster does - where it only works with spellcasters that get the same number of spell slots as a cleric or wizard.
I wouldn't recommend Wellspring Mage with Summoner either.
It actually works very well with Summoner once you get past level 2; you only ever 'lose' 2 slots total, (versus as many as 10 eventually for other casters), and you get back .75 slots per combat on average (75% chance every time you surge, etc. etc.)
So, at three combats per adventuring day, you break even, and if your party tends to go longer than that (For example the Summoner in my currently otherwise all martial, can go all day with some medicine checks gang), you can come out well ahead on slots.
I wouldn't call it optimal, but it's good enough to not be a burden if you think surges are more fun than nuisance (your table may vary on this).
It actually works very well with Summoner once you get past level 2; you only ever 'lose' 2 slots total, (versus as many as 10 eventually for other casters), and you get back .75 slots per combat on average (75% chance every time you surge, etc. etc.)
You can only recover expanded spell slots with Wellspring Mage. So you lose all your spell slots to get one spell per fight. It's definitely not good.
Overall, Wellspring Mage is better on a Sorcerer. And even there it's far from incredible.
Not all, just half:
You can cast fewer spells each day unless you gain more spells thanks to your wellspring. Reduce your number of spell slots of each spell level by 1. Reduce the number of cantrips you gain from your class by 1.
So a Summoner with Wellspring Mage Dedication looses a top level and a top level -1 spellslot. But have 75% of chance to gain a temporary spellslot per encounter. The tradeoff isn't so bad.
The psychic loose is way worse because it's looses way more spellslots (half of each level).
It actually works very well with Summoner once you get past level 2; you only ever 'lose' 2 slots total, (versus as many as 10 eventually for other casters), and you get back .75 slots per combat on average (75% chance every time you surge, etc. etc.)You can only recover expanded spell slots with Wellspring Mage. So you lose all your spell slots to get one spell per fight. It's definitely not good.
Overall, Wellspring Mage is better on a Sorcerer. And even there it's far from incredible.
You can't count the expended spell slot as lost due to this archetype, presumably you got usage out of it instead of just wasting it.
I do agree that I really, really wish you got a temporary slot instead of recovering a spell slot temporarily. Makes it so much more clunky.
The psychic loose is way worse because it's looses way more spellslots (half of each level).
Both Psychic and Summoner lose 50% of all of their spell slots.
Not sure why one is worse than the other.
The psychic loose is way worse because it's looses way more spellslots (half of each level).Both Psychic and Summoner lose 50% of all of their spell slots.
Not sure why one is worse than the other.
The summoner has a 75% chance of regaining 25% of all their spell slots (and top two spell levels at that) while the psychic only regains 16.7% percent of their top 3 spell slots and even less of their total amount.
The psychic loose is way worse because it's looses way more spellslots (half of each level).Both Psychic and Summoner lose 50% of all of their spell slots.
Not sure why one is worse than the other.
Because Summoner chassis is way less dependent from spellslots. I understand that the main focus of a psychic power comes from it's focus spells (AMPed cantrips) but it's spellslot reserve still very important to it.
Summoners as bounded spellcasters (wavecasters) have more options (an Eidolon) making them less spellslot dependent. In general the impact in psychics are higher than in the summoners.
Not all, just half:
You can cast fewer spells each day unless you gain more spells thanks to your wellspring. Reduce your number of spell slots of each spell level by 1. Reduce the number of cantrips you gain from your class by 1.So a Summoner with Wellspring Mage Dedication looses a top level and a top level -1 spellslot. But have 75% of chance to gain a temporary spellslot per encounter. The tradeoff isn't so bad.
The psychic loose is way worse because it's looses way more spellslots (half of each level).
You don't have 75% chance to gain a temporary spell slot unless you cast your 2 spells at the start of the day.
So you have to wait before recovering spells. You will recover the 2 lost spells after something like 4 or 5 fights. It's not really interesting on a Summoner.Edit: And on a Psychic, it's also not really interesting, it's only interesting if you have more spell slots like with a Sorcerer.
In general I am not a fan of Wellspring Mage.
For every encounter there is a 25% chance of causing a wellspring surge. For the first encounter of the day there is a 0% chance of gaining any spell slots.
For Summoner, once you have spent one of your spell slots, on the next encounter there is a 25% chance you will crit the flat check and you can pick the spell level that you want to regain the slot from, and half of a 50% chance that luck will pick the right spell level. So 25% chance of wellspring surge and no recovered spell slot, and 50% chance you get your spell slot available at the start of the encounter.
Once you have spent both spell slots that you have available, then you have a 25% chance of wellspring surge and no spell slot available for the battle. And a 75% chance of getting one spell slot back.
Also note that the spell slot is only available for 3 rounds unless you crit the flat check. And if you use it to cast a spell with a duration, the duration will end when the time limit of the spell slot is reached. Most combats don't last more than 4 or 5 rounds, but it is something else to factor in.
Yes, on top of it, it has to be an instantaneous or low duration spell.
I've seen a Wellspring Mage in action, it has been nearly worse for the party then the enemies. In my opinion, the Archetype is bad and must be avoided as much as possible. But I don't like "chaotic effects at the start of battle". Other parties may find that funny.
I've seen a Wellspring Mage in action, it has been nearly worse for the party then the enemies.
I think most of that has to do with the wellspring surge table rather than the spell slot mechanics.
Looking at the table I see:
1: Almost certainly going to hit some of your allies. Rarely will it hit your enemies.
2: Congratulations, you healed your allies for 0 HP because they are already at max since battle hasn't started yet.
3: This seems pointless most of the time.
4: This will probably make the battle more difficult for the party.
5: Confusion is a really detrimental status to have. A status bonus to weapon damage is not that good of a buff for a spellcaster.
6: This is the first one I actually like. It makes combat more interesting without being unfair to one side or the other.
7: Almost. But since it is an instant effect, it will almost certainly target the party and only has a chance of affecting the enemies.
8: That only hinders the spellcaster.
9: This one is not bad. Similar to #6, it affects both sides of the battle equally and isn't overly detrimental.
10: This will almost certainly only hinder the party.
11: This is rather pointless most of the time.
12: Again, this is likely to only hinder the party.
13: Certain to affect the party, might possibly affect the enemies.
14: That might be a mild benefit to a spellcaster that use Demoralize, or to a Bard. But mostly pointless.
15: Again, crippling only the spellcaster.
16: This is a pretty decent buff. It will certainly affect all allies, but it may also affect at least one enemy - and attacking enemies with the effect will burn through the barrier too.
17: If you get to pick the direction of the cone, you can point it towards the enemies or at least away from your allies. You get debuffed regardless.
18: This one is not bad either. 50% odds of either a buff or debuff for yourself only.
19: Mostly pointless. May be useful in certain battles.
20: If you cast it without using a spell slot, that could be really good. Could even be moderately good if you have to use a spell slot since it happens immediately out of turn with no action cost.
Five (25%) that I think are mildly beneficial or at least fun to play with.
The rest (75%) are either pointless, or unbalanced to be detrimental to the party.
A homebrewed wellspring surge table could fix that.