I'm not sure flurry is the right way for Weapon Siphon.
In fact I think it's kinda terrible with it.Pretty sure that at some point, around mid levels, the increased MAP is a far greater loss of damage compared to the small increase in damage.
Especially since you only gain the benefit for 3 attacks while the negative for all attacks.
I was thinking of something like a Dogslicer that's agile [offsets MAP increase] and with things like Blazons of power, you don't have to keep swinging an empty weapon but can switch to one without it. But if it eventually becomes a negative as you level, you can always take it off then.
Wish Knife/Wish Blade could be interesting too as the first strike could trigger Resonant for the second Strike: same with an energy mutagen.
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I agree it's a straight buff. But it is really small outside the very first levels. Less than 10% after level 6, less than 5% after level 9, and you end up at less than 3% damage increase. Sure, it exists and it's not really needed, but I don't think the game will suffer from it.
On the other side, the low level Alchemist grabs a good 25% extra damage thanks to it. It really helps the class when it needs it most. At high level you remove it from your weapon, but mid to high level Alchemists have much more to offer to a party.
I don't expect much non-Alchemist to use it, but I may be wrong.
I generally agree that it doesn't break the game, but based on some sims of the fighter's double slice dual picks build, it's a fairly significant buff for very little cost. Based on simulator calcs, I'm seeing 15-20% higher damage at 5th level, declining to 10% higher at 10th, and 5% higher at 20th. Nothing to sneeze at, especially when you consider the potential it has to easily trigger weaknesses in addition to those covered by your property runes.
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The new alchemical foods will help alchemists with new RP and job opportunities and could increase their social status in some societies. Many royal courts will want to have a steady availability of diplomat's charcuterie on hand, and many intellectual institutions will be consuming insight coffee at rates that could drive up the cost of coffee or cause shortages.
Considering the cultural importance of food this could open up a lot of opportunities and RP flavor for alchemists.
I generally agree that it doesn't break the game, but based on some sims of the fighter's double slice dual picks build, it's a fairly significant buff for very little cost. Based on simulator calcs, I'm seeing 15-20% higher damage at 5th level, declining to 10% higher at 10th, and 5% higher at 20th. Nothing to sneeze at, especially when you consider the potential it has to easily trigger weaknesses in addition to those covered by your property runes.
I don't have the same numbers. It's 11% at level 6, 5.6% at level 10 and 3% at level 20 on a Double Slice with the Weapon Siphon on the Pick. Roughly, past level 7 it starts to become low. And before that it's not that cheap at all.
To get your numbers, I need to put a Weapon Siphon on both weapons, and as such reduce the Agile weapon MAPed attacks which has an impact when making a third attack. On top of it, the Weapon Siphon counterbalances the effects of the Agile property of the secondary weapon as it now as the same MAP than a non Agile weapon, so I could see a GM applying the -2 like with non Agile weapons (it's not RAW, but there's clearly an RAI call to make).
I generally agree that it doesn't break the game, but based on some sims of the fighter's double slice dual picks build, it's a fairly significant buff for very little cost. Based on simulator calcs, I'm seeing 15-20% higher damage at 5th level, declining to 10% higher at 10th, and 5% higher at 20th. Nothing to sneeze at, especially when you consider the potential it has to easily trigger weaknesses in addition to those covered by your property runes.I don't have the same numbers. It's 11% at level 6, 5.6% at level 10 and 3% at level 20 on a Double Slice with the Weapon Siphon on the Pick. Roughly, past level 7 it starts to become low. And before that it's not that cheap at all.
To get your numbers, I need to put a Weapon Siphon on both weapons, and as such reduce the Agile weapon MAPed attacks which has an impact when making a third attack. On top of it, the Weapon Siphon counterbalances the effects of the Agile property of the secondary weapon as it now as the same MAP than a non Agile weapon, so I could see a GM applying the -2 like with non Agile weapons (it's not RAW, but there's clearly an RAI call to make).
Yep, I'm assuming a siphon on the offhand light pick as well. Weapon siphon definitely doesn't take away the agile property, so there's no impact to the offhand attack when double slicing (though obviously there would be if you make a third attack. I assumed two actions worth of attacking, because movement and other actions usually result in the third action not being a strike anyway). I think any GM house rule to penalize double slice on siphoned off hands would not be common.
The cost per encounter is definitely not trivial at 5th level, but by 8th it should basically be negligible (6gp per encounter is less than 1% of the character's expected total wealth and will only go down from there).
Again, it's not breaking anything, but it's power creep for sure.
I think any GM house rule to penalize double slice on siphoned off hands would not be common.
I disagree on that. Outside environments like PFS, I expect many GMs to houserule that as the spirit of the rule is to apply a penalty on the second attack if it doesn't have a reduced MAP.
I personally would do it and I'm clearly not a GM with many houserules.Again, it's not breaking anything, but it's power creep for sure.
Clearly. And that's obvious: If you add more options, you increase the average power level unless none of these options are usable by previous builds. Still, the floor has been increased more than the ceiling, so I think the game gets better with TV.
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I disagree on that. Outside environments like PFS, I expect many GMs to houserule that as the spirit of the rule is to apply a penalty on the second attack if it doesn't have a reduced MAP.
I don't think it'll be common: you are the first person I've heard mention it and I've been checking various places talking about the book.
I disagree on that. Outside environments like PFS, I expect many GMs to houserule that as the spirit of the rule is to apply a penalty on the second attack if it doesn't have a reduced MAP.I don't think it'll be common: you are the first person I've heard mention it and I've been checking various places talking about the book.
Well, I may be wrong, time will tell. I don't know how Weapon Siphons will impact the game anyway.
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I've been considering an alchemist who thinks along these lines, specializing in alchemical foods and running an eatery where they use quick/advanced alchemy to create orders for customers called Brew-&-Chew.The new alchemical foods will help alchemists with new RP and job opportunities and could increase their social status in some societies. Many royal courts will want to have a steady availability of diplomat's charcuterie on hand, and many intellectual institutions will be consuming insight coffee at rates that could drive up the cost of coffee or cause shortages.
Considering the cultural importance of food this could open up a lot of opportunities and RP flavor for alchemists.
There's an SFS scenario encounter involving a physic chef that reads everyone's mind before making the perfect meal for the PCs. Something like that would be fun to combine with a food alchemist.
An iron chef competition for alchemists could be fun too. It might be how some royal family chose their alchemical chef.
A lot of fun options for food alchemy.
I'm wondering what a Fury Cocktail would do on a Paladin.
The -1 to AC is compensated by the Paladin excellent AC. The +1 to hit puts them closer to the Fighter in terms of damage.
I really find the Fury Cocktail to be strong (+1 to hit for -1 to AC is definitely a power boost, and that's without counting the extra effect).
I like Fury Cocktail, although some things are irritating. (Lowest tier is a L4 Lesser, all Tiers 1 level behind most other Mutagens.)
When considering Fury, don't forget the -2 to Reflex Saves. I find it livable on my Mutagenist (Fury & Bestial share the same Drawback) but Alchemists start with Expert Reflex Saves, and eventually (L15) get Master with Evasion. Not all classes are so fortunate.
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I like Fury Cocktail, although some things are irritating. (Lowest tier is a L4 Lesser, all Tiers 1 level behind most other Mutagens.)
When considering Fury, don't forget the -2 to Reflex Saves. I find it livable on my Mutagenist (Fury & Bestial share the same Drawback) but Alchemists start with Expert Reflex Saves, and eventually (L15) get Master with Evasion. Not all classes are so fortunate.
Yeah, in my experience Reflex saves are the bane of your existence as a champion. Taking -2 to those is not a fun time.