How do summoners with DEX eidolons perform? What is their niche?

[_shredder_]

I will play a summoner in pathfinder society soon, a kobold with an angelic emissary eidolon. I like the character, but I don't have experience with the summoner class and am worried that I don't really get what makes it strong and will play the character in a suboptimal way.

When I look at discussion about summoners almost everyone seems to choose STR eidolons and invest in maneuver feats, and the control focused plant eidolon seems to be generally the strongest one.

But I rarely see anyone talk about the DEX eidolons. Are they not so great? The AC bonus is nice at low levels, but the eidolon is still not a tank. With 12STR, the angelic emissary can not use maneuvers effectively and hits like a swashbuckler who never gets panache. Being able to have a switch hitter eidolon is cool and I will definitely take ranged combatant at lv2, but it seems pretty weak and there is no way to improve the attack later.

Am I missing something? Will a DEX eidolon feel underwhelming at lv1? Are there any special playstyles/strategies that a DEX eidolon and ranged combatant enable?

[SuperBidi]

Hi Shredder,

The Dex Eidolon is, in my opinion, the base of a very different playing style for the Summoner that I've called the Caster Summoner. I've even made a small guide to explain what the difference is with the Str Eidolon (and what I call the Eidolon Summoner).
There's a discussion here.

Mine is currently still low level, but I'm extremely satisfied with it (and it's an Angelic Emissary, so I think you can have the same experience). Now, level 1 was hard because of the lack of Ranged Combatant (and Tandem Move also really helped a lot once at level 4).

If you want to talk more about it, don't hesitate.

[breithauptclan]

_shredder_ wrote:

Are there any special playstyles/strategies that a DEX eidolon and ranged combatant enable?

Yes. Versatility. Which I hear is quite useful for PFS games and campaigns.

The Eidolon won't hit quite as hard at melee damage as a STR based Eidolon would, but is just as good at melee defense. So you don't really need to shy away from melee combat any more than a melee Eidolon does.

However, you don't have to go out of your way to engage at melee range either. With Ranged Combatant and cantrips from the Summoner, you have a pretty good selection of ranged damage options.

Another nice benefit of Ranged Combatant is that if you start a battle unexpectedly and don't have your Eidolon manifested already. You have to spend all three of your actions to summon them, the Eidolon has to start in a space adjacent to you, and they only get one action for the round. A melee-only Eidolon is often unable to do much of anything useful unless one of the enemies already took their turn and decided to come into melee range of your Summoner. Which may not be an uncommon thing, but it doesn't always happen. A ranged Eidolon can still spend their one action attacking.

[Castilliano]

In other words, yes, Dex-Eidelons might be found suboptimal by typical measures (i.e. melee damage), yet that's only one playstyle. If focusing on casting, defense, and/or ranged attacks, Dex-Eidelons function fine.

I'd add scouting to that mix (which the somewhat disposable/retrievable Eidelon can excel at), as well as Thievery or other skills the party will need. And it all comes down to what party roles are needed. If surrounded by melee bruisers, a caster/ranged/utility Eidelon would make the Summoner more worthwhile than another beatstick, while the opposite of course is true, in a party of archers/casters/skill monkeys, you'll want the Str-Eidelon for balance.

[Dubious Scholar]

Castilliano wrote:

In other words, yes, Dex-Eidelons might be found suboptimal by typical measures (i.e. melee damage), yet that's only one playstyle. If focusing on casting, defense, and/or ranged attacks, Dex-Eidelons function fine.

I'd add scouting to that mix (which the somewhat disposable/retrievable Eidelon can excel at), as well as Thievery or other skills the party will need. And it all comes down to what party roles are needed. If surrounded by melee bruisers, a caster/ranged/utility Eidelon would make the Summoner more worthwhile than another beatstick, while the opposite of course is true, in a party of archers/casters/skill monkeys, you'll want the Str-Eidelon for balance.

The dex eidolon has an advantage there in society play because it's still very capable in melee, allowing you to adapt to the uncertainty of party composition easily. It has identical accuracy, and the gap in damage narrows as you level (since str is less of your damage output at higher levels, and dex builds are only d6 instead of d8)

[graystone]

Fey Eidolon [Trickster Fey] is a dex build I've played: you can have Ranged Combatant along with it casting casting primal cantrips and a high enough cha for basic skill actions [Skilled Partner can get you Bon Mot and Intimidating Glare]. I just wish Meld into Eidolon let my summoner at least take mental actions [like Recall] instead of a total restriction on acting.

[aobst128]

Dex has a plus 1 in AC compared to strength for your first 4 levels. Other than that, ranged combatant allows for switch hitting. Nice to have the option if you want to spend as many actions as you can attacking.

[Deriven Firelion]

I am playing a Dex eidolon right now. Seems to do fine. Summoner is not a high damage class, so the Dex eidolon seems more versatile than the Str eidolon.

I took a ranged unarmed attack which uses Dex to hit. I like using Stealth on my eidolon, so Dex helps that. Their AC is maxed out from the beginning. A Dex eidolon seems like a fine choice. A few points of damage less for more skill and attack versatility.