Something to learn from starfinder

[CorvusMask]

So personally Pathfinder 2e is one of my favorite systems, but one of my players seems to prefer Starfinder, so I figured out might as well make post to share gist of their take about it

Basically, they kinda feel like Pathfinder 2e doesn't have mechanically gonzo options that are also good at same time due to Pathfinder focusing heavily on balance and having baseline experience be similar, where Starfinder is balanced game that allows things players to have pointlessly strong abilities like immunities or permanent movement options and other weird variety of things.

I don't personally have huge stake in this(I like both pathfinder 2e and starfinder, but starfinder has lot of small things that annoy me mechanically), but I do agree that my favorite items from treasure vault previews are the most gonzo ones, I'm fan of gonzo in general x'D

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Gonzo options are what I love about Starfinder. You can have all sorts of movement speeds, wacky ancestries, large ancestries and strange creature abilities all sharing space with one another.

[Leon Aquilla]

In Pathfinder 2e, non-magic flight is jealously hoarded until level 15-20 for balance.

In Starfinder, you can buy a jetpack armor upgrade at level 3, if you've got the creds.

[Perpdepog]

Leon Aquilla wrote:

In Pathfinder 2e, non-magic flight is jealously hoarded until level 15-20 for balance.

In Starfinder, you can buy a jetpack armor upgrade at level 3, if you've got the creds.

In fairness, having access to flight isn't as encounter-warping when everybody's got a gun.

Which I think is the cool thing about Starfinder; the designers and writers recognized that a different level of tech means that characters would all have access to different kinds of resources, and budget/gate items appropriately.
Not to say that PF2E doesn't, it's just working within a different paradigm.

[Squiggit]

Perpdepog wrote:

In fairness, having access to flight isn't as encounter-warping when everybody's got a gun.

Yeah, but it's not like it's that expensive or difficult for anyone to have a bow or crossbow or gun or cantrip in Pathfinder, either.

It's also sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, where making flight rarer because it warps gameplay causes it to warp gameplay even more.

[Perpdepog]

Squiggit wrote:

Yeah, but it's not like it's that expensive or difficult for anyone to have a bow or crossbow or gun or cantrip in Pathfinder, either.

And? My point wasn't about expense, it was about ubiquity. Guns are expected to be everywhere, so the game is built to take that into account.

I'd also argue that it's marginally more difficult to get a ranged option in PF2E than in SF. 2E requires you to either spend multiple actions using your ranged option, like with a cantrip, gun, or crossbow, or be a class which has access to the martial, more action-efficient ranged options, or to spend an ancestry feat to get one of those options on a class that hasn't got them.
Meanwhile any Starfinder character can spend roughly a tenth of their starting wealth, or more if you want to do energy damage, and be good to go.

[CorvusMask]

I mean, main thing is that if SF2e ever becomes a thing, it should avoid things like "We can't give players x until level y" mostly because that would really change Starfinder's feel.

And the other thing is that class feats in PF2e COULD use more fantastically gonzo things to them or access to some strong abilities that aren't "Technically still good and balanced, but feel kinda underwhelming due to the limitations or npcs having stronger stuff at same level"

(reminds me of how in one of treasure vault previews the guys doing preview didn't realize that "10 temp hp per round" is essentially equivalent of having 10 resistance each round that goes away after first hit and thus reduces damage over time pretty well, but I also understand why they thought 10 would be underwhelming compared to something like 20 temp hp per round)