When Thaumaturge gets Second Implement, part of the rules are that they can switch between implements as a free interact action.
Are there any major balance problems with having two or more implements be mechanically separate items, but narratively described as the same item? Switching between implements would be replaced with switching modes of the same implement - and would still be a free interact action (so it still provokes AoO for example). But is there anything else that I am not thinking of?
I feel like the "free interact action" describes how, for example, if your two implements are a spear (weapon) with a flag (regalia) on it, you present the thing differently depending on which implement you're using.
Like the spear needs to keep the sharp end pointed at danger, but the flag is something you lift and wave so people see it. If your mirror is a shield boss, the way you aim the mirror to reflect light just right isn't necessarily the way a shield would best protect you from danger, etc.
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I feel like the "free interact action" describes how, for example, if your two implements are a spear (weapon) with a flag (regalia) on it, you present the thing differently depending on which implement you're using.
Worth noting that RAW is that you can't free switch from weapon (or any other implement) to regalia because Regalia has no implement action.
Right now you either drop the weapon and draw the regalia (1 action) or stow the weapon and draw the regalia (2 actions). So in the two-for-one scenario you'd have to spend two actions to 'reconfigure' your weapon into regalia mode, which feels a little awkward and bad but I guess works.
In the abstract it sounds fine but I'd definitely want to see the particular items the player was thinking of combining just in case there was some edge case or facet that I hadn't thought of
That's a good point.
The two I am thinking of for a specific character are Tome and Amulet. A crystal ball on a chain that is used both as a source of information and as a warding tool.
Which leads to another question - can you switch implements before using Amulet's Abeyance reaction?
Amulet Implement becomes a lot weaker if you can't.
Isn't that explicitly what the 5th level ability does for specific action implements? Allows you to use your amulet's reaction while you're wearing it as long as you're holding another implement.
Yes. That is what this entire thread hangs its logic on.
My concern is that the switching is described as only a free action, not a free action with a trigger. So I am not sure that it can be used when it is not your turn. Such as when it is an enemy's turn and they attack you or an ally and you have your Tome item in hand instead of Amulet.
Personally, I would absolutely allow that. But I am wondering how many people would argue that it doesn't work.
I've never met a GM who houseruled the Thaumaturge's level 5 ability to be worse. Why would you?
I mean the example in the book even specifically mentions switching implements to use a reaction (although it references the wrong implement).
I think you're the first person I've ever seen suggest it shouldn't work.
Also, their example is a bit wonky.
For example, if you had your lantern implement in one hand, a weapon in the other, and a chalice implement you were wearing, you could swap your lantern for your chalice to use its reaction.
It calls out that it is usable for reactions, but neither Lantern or Chalice have an ability used as a reaction.
Hah. Ninja'd
Having them be the same object (with various interact rules) is actually making them worse, as it means that you can't hold one in each hand.
Why would holding two - one in each hand - be useful?
How is that different than having two - one held and one stored - and being able to switch between them for free?
I mean the example in the book even specifically mentions switching implements to use a reaction (although it references the wrong implement).
I think you're the first person I've ever seen suggest it shouldn't work.
Apparently there is now a second.
Why would holding two - one in each hand - be useful?
How is that different than having two - one held and one stored - and being able to switch between them for free?
First, because it lets you quickly pick which form of Intensify Vulnerability you wanted. Other than that, it depends on the implement. The Lantern, Regalia and Tome all have passive benefits. The weapon functions as a weapon - you might well want to have that in hand without having to make the built-in reaction first.
If the two implements are both from the list of amulet, chalice, bell, mirror, and wand, then it's just the Intensify Vulnerability. Alternately, if you're generally wielding a one-handed weapon that is *not* one of the two, then there's not a lot lost there, as you wouldn't be dual-wielding them anyway.
I admit, for this reason I generally prefer natural weapons for my Thaumaturge builds. Goblin tail-strikes FTW!
Could you use intensify vulnerability as an implement action to allow you to switch to regalia in combat? Admittedly you are kind of stuck before level 9 if you want to start with two passive implements.
Hmm. "an action from the implement you're switching to". I suppose that would work. Intensify still takes an action, so it's not solving the issue for the pure passives, but it would count otherwise... and the weapon implement can easily enough self-draw when you want to stab someone with a standard stabby motion, too.
So "can't wield one in each hand" pretty much only matters for if at least one of the two implements is a passive and you'd otherwise have an empty hand.