do you loose your earth shield if you change elements?

[Blissey1]

Like if I start turn with earth gathered, raised earth shield, then gather another element, do I still get the benefit of a shield being raised? Or like if you first action Earth Shield and then used a two action overflow like Rolling Boulder. It doesn't specifically say you loose your shield if you drop your element in the text but doing so would completely negate the penalty for using it to block and the description/flavor is very much that you are using your gathered element as the shield

[Verzen]

Yes

[Verzen]

It's one of the issues with "Dual element" and why I think they should just be a hybrid element of its two parent elements. Water and earth? You fling mud and create a hardened mud shield. Fire and earth? Lava. Etc. That way you aren't juggling two separate concepts at once with your character. It feels very off.

[YuriP]

Blissey1 wrote:

Like if I start turn with earth gathered, raised earth shield, then gather another element, do I still get the benefit of a shield being raised? Or like if you first action Earth Shield and then used a two action overflow like Rolling Boulder. It doesn't specifically say you loose your shield if you drop your element in the text but doing so would completely negate the penalty for using it to block and the description/flavor is very much that you are using your gathered element as the shield

I think you loose because of the statement:

Quote:

You Raise a Shield, turning your gathered element into the shield and gaining a +2 circumstance bonus to AC until the start of your next turn. (You can still use this shield for anything requiring a gathered element).

So when you rise a Stone Shield you begin to use your Stone Shield as gathered element, so if you change or loose your gathered element you automatically loose your shield. Including this create a strange interaction with Elemental Weapon because the Elemental Weapon is your gathered element too, so when a player is using a earth bastard sword when it rises a Stone Shield is it using the sword as shield?

[siegfriedliner]

YuriP wrote:

Blissey1 wrote:

Like if I start turn with earth gathered, raised earth shield, then gather another element, do I still get the benefit of a shield being raised? Or like if you first action Earth Shield and then used a two action overflow like Rolling Boulder. It doesn't specifically say you loose your shield if you drop your element in the text but doing so would completely negate the penalty for using it to block and the description/flavor is very much that you are using your gathered element as the shield

I think you loose because of the statement:

Quote:

You Raise a Shield, turning your gathered element into the shield and gaining a +2 circumstance bonus to AC until the start of your next turn. (You can still use this shield for anything requiring a gathered element).

So when you rise a Stone Shield you begin to use your Stone Shield as gathered element, so if you change or loose your gathered element you automatically loose your shield. Including this create a strange interaction with Elemental Weapon because the Elemental Weapon is your gathered element too, so when a player is using a earth bastard sword when it rises a Stone Shield is it using the sword as shield?

If you read the ability once you use the the Stone shield ability you get the +2 to ac and fortitude saves unitl the beginning of your next turn.

Not having your element doesn't override the duration which doesn't include an provisio saying that bonus lasts only whilst you have your Stone shield raised.

[YuriP]

IMO I still think this need a clarification to what happen if you change your element with Stone Shield risen.

[shroudb]

siegfriedliner wrote:

YuriP wrote:

Blissey1 wrote:

Like if I start turn with earth gathered, raised earth shield, then gather another element, do I still get the benefit of a shield being raised? Or like if you first action Earth Shield and then used a two action overflow like Rolling Boulder. It doesn't specifically say you loose your shield if you drop your element in the text but doing so would completely negate the penalty for using it to block and the description/flavor is very much that you are using your gathered element as the shield

I think you loose because of the statement:

Quote:

You Raise a Shield, turning your gathered element into the shield and gaining a +2 circumstance bonus to AC until the start of your next turn. (You can still use this shield for anything requiring a gathered element).

So when you rise a Stone Shield you begin to use your Stone Shield as gathered element, so if you change or loose your gathered element you automatically loose your shield. Including this create a strange interaction with Elemental Weapon because the Elemental Weapon is your gathered element too, so when a player is using a earth bastard sword when it rises a Stone Shield is it using the sword as shield?

If you read the ability once you use the the Stone shield ability you get the +2 to ac and fortitude saves unitl the beginning of your next turn.

Not having your element doesn't override the duration which doesn't include an provisio saying that bonus lasts only whilst you have your Stone shield raised.

it specifically states that the bonus to the AC is from a 'Raise a Shield" action.

and then clarifies that your element is that Shield that you raised.

if there's no shield, as per the Raise a shield action, then there's no bonus.

so, if you lose the earth element that is your shield, you also lose the AC bonus.

same thing with the fortitude bonus, "while this shield is raised you also gain +2 circumstance bonus to Fortitude..."

So if there's no shield at all (no element) then there's no shield raised, hence no bonus to Fortitude.

[Themetricsystem]

Nothing in the rules indicates that the AC bonus goes away from Raise a Shield if you lose the Shield before the stated end duration.

This tends to be more of a problem with the Raise a Shield Action and rules rather than the Stone Shield ability, but by RAW that AC sticks regardless of if you still hold the Shield since the Action was spent.

[Sanityfaerie]

I'm pretty sure, by the same token, that if you start out with a weapon and then turn it into a shield, your gathered element is no longer a weapon

[shroudb]

Themetricsystem wrote:

Nothing in the rules indicates that the AC bonus goes away from Raise a Shield if you lose the Shield before the stated end duration.

This tends to be more of a problem with the Raise a Shield Action and rules rather than the Stone Shield ability, but by RAW that AC sticks regardless of if you still hold the Shield since the Action was spent.

well, if you believe (and allow in your games) that if you raise a shield (any shield), and then that shield gets destroyed, disintegrated, stolen, erased from existence, disarmed, etc but somehow you are still "raising a shield and getting a bonus from it" then sure, go ahead and allow Stone shield without stone element.

[siegfriedliner]

shroudb wrote:

Themetricsystem wrote:

Nothing in the rules indicates that the AC bonus goes away from Raise a Shield if you lose the Shield before the stated end duration.

This tends to be more of a problem with the Raise a Shield Action and rules rather than the Stone Shield ability, but by RAW that AC sticks regardless of if you still hold the Shield since the Action was spent.

well, if you believe (and allow in your games) that if you raise a shield (any shield), and then that shield gets destroyed, disintegrated, stolen, erased from existence, disarmed, etc but somehow you are still "raising a shield and getting a bonus from it" then sure, go ahead and allow Stone shield without stone element.

Remember everyone is inhabiting the same 6 seconds regardless of when they are in the initiative so the fact that at some point you had you shield up during those six seconds could effect the actions of someone during those six seconds even if it the last two seconds of those six you don't. Round are sequential as a game mechanic but in reality everything is happening all at once.

[Sanityfaerie]

I note that this directly references the "Raise a Shield" action.

"When you have Raised a Shield, you gain its listed circumstance bonus to AC. Your shield remains raised until the start of your next turn."

So the circumstance bonus applies specifically while your shield is in a "raised" state. I would argue that if the shield ceases to be, then it no longer qualifies as raised.

[Ravingdork]

siegfriedliner wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Themetricsystem wrote:

Nothing in the rules indicates that the AC bonus goes away from Raise a Shield if you lose the Shield before the stated end duration.

This tends to be more of a problem with the Raise a Shield Action and rules rather than the Stone Shield ability, but by RAW that AC sticks regardless of if you still hold the Shield since the Action was spent.

well, if you believe (and allow in your games) that if you raise a shield (any shield), and then that shield gets destroyed, disintegrated, stolen, erased from existence, disarmed, etc but somehow you are still "raising a shield and getting a bonus from it" then sure, go ahead and allow Stone shield without stone element.

Remember everyone is inhabiting the same 6 seconds regardless of when they are in the initiative so the fact that at some point you had you shield up during those six seconds could effect the actions of someone during those six seconds even if it the last two seconds of those six you don't. Round are sequential as a game mechanic but in reality everything is happening all at once.

This. This is correct. Couldn't have said it better myself.