No one knows.
There are a ton of edge cases involved in Mirror Implement that require GM adjudication at the table.
Mirror Implement also gets the wall of shame honor of being the Implement that gets a bit of a downgrade along with its level 7 Adept Benefit. Before then, you always get to choose which copy is the real you and which is the image. After that, the enemies can make the decision for you by attacking one of the images.
Many auras are not generated by actions. They just are.
Therefore I'd argue that they don't fall under that rule at all and so both versions of you have an aura, essentially expanding your aura's area (but not stacking any of its effects). The mirror implement text is referring to things like Cast A Spell, Activate An Item, and Strike.
I had a champion in Agents of Edgewatch who did this all the time. He would create a mirror in order to flank and extend the range of his reactions.
It was great fun and not unbalanced in the slightest.
It doesn't say generated by actions, does it? It applies to all effects, there are no qualifiers there. Yes, there is a rules gap re: when does one choose where to center ongoing effects, but it's obvious that one's auras are effects that are generated by oneself so fall under this rule. You have to choose which one of your selves is the source.
IMO Thaum w/ mirror creating two aura sources makes it too strong for the investment, even if not unbalancing (a difficult bar in PF2's well-balanced world). Compare it with Expand Aura (6th) which is costly until 10th and lacks all the tricks mirrors give you.
While I agree it probably isn't really unbalanced, a Champ's Aura is an "effect that you generate" by any stretch of the defined term.
Effects that last for a period of time list a duration. These can last a set increment of time, or can end if certain requirements are met. Many effects apply conditions, which measure advantages or impediments like being blinded, frightened, or invisible.
While the examples given in the text for the text for Mirror's Reflection do mention Strikes and spells, anything that you passively do also counts as an "effect". Naturally-occurring difficult or hazardous terrain is an effect, even.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ah, I think I see what's happened. When I played my champion through Agents of Edgewatch there were no rules conflicts. Our entire table checked the text, thoroughly.
Therefore, I was convinced that either you were all mistaken, or else the mirror implement had been errata'd. This lead me to stubbornly argue the point, from a stance using incorrect assumptions.
I now realize my champion was played at a time in which a champion's aura, if any, had no association with their ability to use their reactions. Unlike the post-Remaster champion, which makes such reactions dependent on said aura.
Therefore, my champion's combo with mirror implement was perfectly valid then, but now appears to interact completely differently today.
I concede the argument that auras are effects, and that my champion tricks no longer appear to function as they once had.
This raised a question for me.
Do creatures know if they are in an aura from another creature?
Since I like sensory narratives, I prefer auras being visible and their effects being tangible, but not necessarily.
Like at my tables a Barbarian that rolls a nat 20 might lead to a player joking that the Stench aura smells bad to their PC, but not bad bad or even smells good, like grandma's stew (made with nasty ingredients, like say these creatures with the Stench ability).
A glowing Champion? Or glowing spell effects? Sound apt, though that won't reveal what that the glows do, but a glowing Marshal, probably not visible since that's more motivational than magical, but maybe everyone's demeanor shifts (to those enemy's alert to such things).
Which is to say, I think auras are too case-by-case to have a singular rule, but a GM should clarify which way they lean on any auras the PCs should be familiar with.
I thought somebody covered cover above: It's relative to the enemy attacking vs. where you (the target) are, so it doesn't matter where you (not the target) are. This goes the opposite way too if they attack the you with cover, then it doesn't matter if they had a clear shot at your other self.
I'd rule similarly that the you acting within the aura gains the benefits, but not the you not within the aura IF the aura's altering an attack/adding defense. I wouldn't let the Paladin respond if the you outside their aura was attacked. Also, if an enemy's aura gave you unluckiness so you had to roll an attack twice/take lower, I wouldn't have it alter attacks from the you outside the aura.
For some effects, like say if the aura granted Fast Healing or inflicted a Condition like Enfeebled, then that's you as a whole taking the effect (rather than targeting what you do), so it's on you no matter which of you is acting, though would end if you dismissed the one in the aura.
So I do see, everyone was focused on the if the thalmaterge is the source but I was also wondering about if only one of the images is in an area of benefit like cover or a paladin's aura, or something similar. Also again, with the effect of if the enemy is within the paladin's aura, and one of your images is in the palatans. Aura, can you still get the champions damage reduction and possibly attack. If they have ranged retribution
I'd rule it has to be the one that is being attacked to get the benefit, but yes. ie: If one of the two Thaumaturges is in the aura and the other one is the one being attacked, that one isn't in the aura so isn't valid for the trigger on the reaction.
If the one that is in the aura is being attacked, then absolutely.
|
Mirror Implement also gets the wall of shame honor of being the Implement that gets a bit of a downgrade along with its level 7 Adept Benefit. Before then, you always get to choose which copy is the real you and which is the image. After that, the enemies can make the decision for you by attacking one of the images.
Oh!
I did not notice this on my Level 3 Thaumaturge, just took Mirror because it is really cool.
Is this change in agency intended? If not, is there an errata in the works? Seems trivial enough to add “you may choose to shatter” etc.
Maybe in the Secrets of Magic Remaster, There are some benefits to being able to shatter when you demand when it comes to multi-strikes and creatures with grab/knockdown, Enemies also need to spend actions hitting the image they want you to not 'become' to then capitalize on it, Which typically involves reach or large creatures.Mirror Implement also gets the wall of shame honor of being the Implement that gets a bit of a downgrade along with its level 7 Adept Benefit. Before then, you always get to choose which copy is the real you and which is the image. After that, the enemies can make the decision for you by attacking one of the images.Oh!
I did not notice this on my Level 3 Thaumaturge, just took Mirror because it is really cool.
Is this change in agency intended? If not, is there an errata in the works? Seems trivial enough to add “you may choose to shatter” etc.
Smart enemies would always choose the 'you' that is adjacent to at least one of your allies - who are not immune to the damage.