First Impressions after a read-through


Kineticist Class


3 people marked this as a favorite.

As always, I do a massive post regarding my first impressions for a class.

Overall:
Key Ability Score

Getting investigator playtest flashbacks. I ask you this: what does Con do for a kineticist? They still use Str./Dex. for their attacks and damage. In 1e it made sense, because Con. added to their damage, and they had a whole feature about giving up HP for powerful effects. In 2e, you could just as easily change the key ability score to “Strength or Dexterity” and it would actually be better for the class.

Three action abilities

There are…way too many three action abilities for this class. Some of them I get (like the various walls), but some are just…not that great. Especially when they’re overflow abilities, so you have to use an action later to Gather an Element.

Class Features:
Gather Element

So…Gathering an Element is basically the kineticist’s way of Interacting to pull out a weapon? I feel like there should be at least a bit of fluff to explain that better, even if it’s just “as easily as a fighter draws their sword.”

I…kinda don’t like the clause “…[you can] use [the Gathered Element] in environments where this normally wouldn’t be possible.” I kinda get the idea (so a fire kineticist isn’t completely shut down if an adventure suddenly goes underwater), but it’s just baffling to me.

I feel Gather Element should be able to take it from somewhere other than your inner gate (see Adapt Element below).

The ability doesn’t specify what happens when the kineticist falls unconscious while having a Gathered Element.

Elemental Blast

So, Striking with your element is its own action? Why? I know the answer is probably to include those special traits onto it, but making it its own separate action is more restrictive. For example, a hasted kineticist can’t use the quickened action to Strike with their element (since to do so requires using the Elemental Blast action rather than the Strike action). It would just be easier to put something in Gather Element like “you can Strike with your element; when you do, it gains the evocation, impulse, and primal traits.”

“Though [Elemental Blast] is not actually an unarmed attack…” Why not? It’s literally an unarmed attack for every other reason. Just make it an unarmed attack and say it has its own special critical specialization. Is it to prevent it from being used with Flurry of Blows? Well, attacking with it requires its own special action, so it already couldn’t be used with Flurry of Blows, but if my previous grievance regarding that is addressed, then what? It doesn’t break anything since it still requires multiclassing and whatnot. If it uses unarmed proficiency, is affected by handwraps, and gets weapon specialization as if it were unarmed attacks, then just say it’s an unarmed attack! Saying “it’s not, except it is” just makes it more confusing. EDIT: Also, you already basically give Flurry of Blows with Blast Barrage.

I also have a similar grievance regarding “impulses aren’t spells, except when they are,” but I feel that that one is a bit more understandable because “spell” is a very specific thing in this game.

Adapt Element

“If you have a gathered element, you can choose that portion of element.” The “gathered element” should be capitalized to make it clear you’re referring to the specific action.

Why would you ever use the Gather option in Adapt Element? This implies that using the Gather Element action just spontaneously creates the element from your inner gate. Using Adapt Element to Gather an Element is pointless, as it’s using two actions to do something you can do in one. I feel like taking Gathering an Element from an external area (like water from a stream) should already be part of Gather Element. If anything, I feel like it should take more actions to Gather an Element by spontaneously creating it from your inner gate than it should to Gather an Element from the environment. As it stands, it takes more effort to Gather an Element from the surrounding environment than it does to just make it out of nowhere.

Elemental Resistance

Again, you should capitalize “element gathered” to make it clear that you’re referring to the specific action.

I know that this is handled by the whole “source with that trait” clause, but I also know that metal as an element is being added, and I could definitely see someone arguing “Well, why doesn’t a metal sword have the metal trait?!”

Extract Element

Once again, it’s somehow easier to Gather an Element from a fire elemental than it is from a torch on the wall (see Adapt Element above).

Why isn’t there a damage type listed for Extract Element. I know it’s mostly because otherwise it would be subject to resistances, but it’s nevertheless a bit awkward.

Critical Element

I have issues with the water critical specialization. Usually, you don’t know when you’ll crit, so having splash damage come online only when you crit can cause issues. I could see a water kineticist at 1 HP using a melee blast against a creature and then cursing that they got a nat 20 and knocked themselves unconscious. I could also see making a ranged blast at a boss that knocked out the kineticist’s friend and then the kineticist accidentally killing their friend because they got a crit and did splash damage. There’s also the issue with regards to PFS, where you must get consent if you were to damage another PC. Basically, if you create an ability that would make a player go “I didn’t want a crit” more than once in a blue moon, then you’re doing something wrong.

Blast Expertise

Why is this a 7th level feature? Kineticists get mastery at 13th like the other martials. They should get expertise at 5th.

Final Gate

That’s…cool. I guess. I dunno how often a PC would be Gathering an Element, though. Maybe if they’re using overflow actions a lot, but it still seems like a weird permanent quicken.

Regular Class Feats:
Voice of the Elements

Why is this an action? And why is it an impulse? Does that mean I can only use it while I have an Element Gathered? I feel like this should just be a passive thing. (It also brings up the question of what language the planes of metal and wood would speak)

Aura Shaping

After reading some of the kinetic auras, this feels like a mandatory feat if you want to use the auras and avoid hurting allies/helping enemies.

Gather Amalgamation

The wording of this ability will need to be updated for the final release to also include wood and metal.

Steadfast Kinetics

I feel like this should be listed with the other earth feats, but I’m pretty sure the reason it’s not is because it’s not also an impulse.

Air Feats:
Soothing Breeze

Uh…what’s the third effect? It mentioned three but only listed two.

Clear as Air

“While you are Clear as Air, you can gather air quietly and invisibly, but the invisibility doesn’t hide any manifestations of your other abilities.” There should be a mention of the Gather Element action for clarity.

Earth Feats:
Swim Through Earth

The ability does not specify a slowed value.

Rock Rampart

This should be a three-action activity to bring it in line with both wall of stone and the kineticist’s other wall abilities. I also feel like this should have the overflow trait.

Assume Earth’s Mantle

I feel like the parts of this ability that make it similar to a Strength apex item are a bit much. And it would also stack with the apex stuff because those aren’t typed bonuses.

Rebirth in Living Stone

Totally irrelevant, but there’s a single line in this ability that’s a very different font.

Fire Feats:
Crawling Fire

There should probably be a note about reach with the larger crawling fires.

Furnace Form

“Your fire Elemental Blasts add a die of their normal damage die instead of the 1d4 your unarmed attacks get.” I’ll be honest, I have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean.

Water Feats:
Return to the Sea

I feel like there should be a heightened version of this that increases its duration.

Ride the Tsunami

The last sentence is weird, because I think that would mean you could only do the actual Swimming if you were in an environment where you would need to Swim.

Overall, I like the idea, but some of the execution leaves much to be desired.


Going the difficult terrain earth aura, Assume Earth's Mantle and Rebirth in Living Stone can, assuming you survive long enough to get Assume, turn you into a massive earthen tank in melee. Also assuming that Assume gains benefits from runes to your armor.

Furnace Form gives you Fiery Body for a round, or a minute at 16th. One thing Fiery Body does normally is give you +1d4 fire damage to your unarmed attacks, that scales to +2d4 at 9th spell level. Furnace Form instead does an additional die of unarmed damage, which should be +1d6, sadly I don't think it does anything that lets it scale the 3d6 damage on touch or the +damage to unarmed like Fiery Body normally does. Though I could be mistaken. It would be nice if Furnace Form made it +2d6 fire unarmed damage at 17-18th level.

Also an 11d4 ranged option might be better than a 5d6, if your Charisma is attack quality. Kind of a weird thing about just using Fiery Body instead of just building the Impulse as its own unique thing.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Oof, it didn't occur to me that elemental blast didn't count as a basic strike.

I mean, I suppose the main reason is so that you can't Sudden Charge with an elemental blast, but... Is there actually a good reason to not let you Sudden Charge with an elemental blast?

On the other hand, I disagree that "gathered element" needs to be capitalized every time. 2nd edition in general tries to avoid the Capitalizing Things Like Winnie the Pooh problem. Also, Gather Element is an action, while "the gathered element" is a result of an action.


KingTreyIII wrote:

Key Ability Score

Getting investigator playtest flashbacks. I ask you this: what does Con do for a kineticist? They still use Str./Dex. for their attacks and damage. In 1e it made sense, because Con. added to their damage, and they had a whole feature about giving up HP for powerful effects. In 2e, you could just as easily change the key ability score to “Strength or Dexterity” and it would actually be better for the class.

The Con is used for class DC and class DC is massively used by Overflow Impulses. But I agree. I don't see much sense for Elemental Blast don't use it too or at last to add it as damage bonus.

KingTreyIII wrote:

Three action abilities

There are…way too many three action abilities for this class. Some of them I get (like the various walls), but some are just…not that great. Especially when they’re overflow abilities, so you have to use an action later to Gather an Element.

I fell that 3-action abilities is used as a way to improve the power of Overflow Impulses that are naturally too weak. But I still agree that it's still weak specially if we consider the action economy problema that Gather Element create.

KingTreyIII wrote:
So…Gathering an Element is basically the kineticist’s way of Interacting to pull out a weapon? I feel like there should be at least a bit of fluff to explain that better, even if it’s just “as easily as a fighter draws their sword.”

Not really. It's more like Gather Element works like as 1-action penalty to change the damage type and as "price" to pay to able to use Overflow Impulses.


YuriP wrote:


Not really. It's more like Gather Element works like as 1-action penalty to change the damage type and as "price" to pay to able to use Overflow Impulses.

Yeah, unfortunately it's way worse than draw a weapon.

I agree with the TS that there are too many 3 actions feats, and I also see too many overflow feats.

Given that haste doesn't give you a generic action but rather a strike/stride ( unless lvl 20 capstones which may give you quickened for other stuff ), it feels a class which starves for actions in a way which is even worse than a magus.

I can understand that maybe the class is not meant to spam 3 actions moves as well as gather + overflow, but there's really too much overflow and 3 action moves you can get.

Though I understand a white room scenario is not the best, what may be the standard routine for a kineticist over 3/4 rounds ?

Just to see how can all this stuff fit together.


HumbleGamer wrote:
Though I understand a white room scenario is not the best, what may be the standard routine for a kineticist over 3/4 rounds ?

While bellow level 19 is basically:

1 round: Gather Element, Elemental Blast, Elemental Blast agin or Some other 1-action of your choice.
2 round: 3-action overflow Impulse
Repeat

So it's currently impossible to use 3-actions Impulse in 1º round, except if you always walk with your element at hand. So I already see Kineticist players playing with elements all the time to be able to use it in any unexpected initiative.

Yet is still impossible to cast 2 3-actions Overflow Impulses in a row. I expect they are used no more than 2 times in same encounter.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Rage of Elements Playtest / Kineticist Class / First Impressions after a read-through All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Kineticist Class