Can you sell a golem?

[Mark Hoover 330]

So I'm not just looking for the RAW but a discussion on this topic. There's a template out there that suggests making an Energized golem is more expensive than a standard one. However there are rules for harvesting Trophies from creatures to preserve and sell as art objects or for supplementing costs in magic item creation and such.

If you defeat an Energized Iron Golem for example, that creature's creation cost was 105,000 GP and the market price for such a construct is up over 150,000 GP. If the party has a way to transport it, can they sell the defeated golem like an item or an art object? Would they instead need to make a Trophy from it? Would the same rules apply to any golem, like a wax or flesh golem?

[Reksew_Trebla]

There is a template, Recycled Construct, that let's you use destroyed Constructs to replace some of the cost of a new Construct, but it also gives some malfunctions in certain situations.

I'd say you could sell it for half (because that is the price you sell items) of the cost (not price) of the construct, because half of the cost is removed for a Recycled Construct, and you sell items at half of their true value.

EDIT: I think I did my math wrong. You'd sell it at a quarter of the cost, because it is worth half of the cost, and you sell items at half off their true value.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Those rules are from ultimate wilderness and are talking more about living creatures than constructs. Under the creation of trophies, it talks mentions they only stay viable for 24 hours before they start to decay, and spoilage sets in. that typically does not happen to mechanical devices. Also, under the section of magical affinities for trophies it does not list constructs at all.

This is probably going to be a GM’s call. There is no reason you could not use the parts of a golem to create a work of art, but that would not fall under any rules so would be up to the GM. If the golem had any historical significance its price could actually be pretty high, otherwise it would probably be treated as any other artwork and the value would depend on the quality of the work and the material used.

[SheepishEidolon]

I found the trophy rules to be rather dull and restrictive, so I'd make up something myself.

The average loot of a CR 13 creature (iron golem) is ~12k, I'd halve that down to 6k since it's unintended bonus loot. And I'd ask my players for creative ideas what to do with the remains. As well as for skill checks / magic to actually implement these ideas. Then they can sell it as a piece of art.

For an energized iron golem (CR 15) I'd simply scale it up to 9.5k. Can be justified with fancy energy effects, but players probably care more about the coins anyway.

It might be ok to allow them to sell iron golem remains at 50k or 100k once. But as soon as they notice the unusually high income from that, they might try to fight as many golems as possible. To the point of saying "Nay" to any adventure that likely won't involve any golem.

[zza ni]

when you craft it, make it a 'shield gaurdian' (scroll down) golem variant.

"a shield guardian is keyed to a magical amulet that is constructed at the same time as (and as part of the cost of) the guardian. Henceforth, it regards the wearer of that amulet as its master, protecting and following that individual everywhere (unless specifically commanded not to do so)."

it cost extra and a bit harder to craft (higher dc, extra spells and higher crafter's caster level needed). but if you sell him the extra cost can be set on the buyer.

Shield Guardians:

A spellcaster with enough talent, resources, and inspiration can create a special variant of a golem known as a shield guardian. Any true golem can be created as a shield guardian, but the choice to do so must be made during the golem's construction—a completed golem cannot later be “upgraded” to function as a shield guardian.

Shield guardians are designed to serve as bodyguards. When created, a shield guardian is keyed to a magical amulet that is constructed at the same time as (and as part of the cost of) the guardian. Henceforth, it regards the wearer of that amulet as its master, protecting and following that individual everywhere (unless specifically commanded not to do so). If a shield guardian's amulet is destroyed, the guardian ceases to function until a new one is created. If the wearer dies but the amulet is intact, the shield guardian carries out the last command it was given.

A shield guardian obeys its master's verbal commands to the best of its ability, although it is not good for much beyond combat, protection, and simple manual labor. It can also be keyed to perform specific tasks at specific times or when certain conditions are met. The wearer of the amulet can call the shield guardian from any distance, and it will come as long as it is on the same plane.

Shield guardians have the same statistics as the base golem, but with the following additional special qualities. A shield guardian's CR is equal to the base golem's CR + 2.

Controlled (Ex) A shield guardian that has the berserk special attack cannot go berserk as long as the wearer of its amulet is within 30 feet.

Fast Healing (Ex) A shield guardian has fast healing 5.

Find Master (Su) As long as a shield guardian and its amulet are on the same plane, the shield guardian can locate the amulet's wearer (or just the amulet, if it is removed after the guardian is called).

Guard (Ex) If ordered to do so, a shield guardian moves to defend the wearer of its amulet. All attacks against the amulet wearer take a –2 penalty when the shield guardian is adjacent to its master.

Shield Other (Sp) The wearer of a shield guardian's amulet can activate this defensive ability as a standard action if within 100 feet of the shield guardian. Just as the spell of the same name, this ability transfers to the shield guardian half the damage that would be dealt to the amulet wearer (note that this ability does not provide the spell's AC or save bonuses). Damage transferred in this manner bypasses any defensive abilities (such as immunity or damage reduction) the golem possesses.

Spell Storing (Sp) A shield guardian can store one spell of 4th level or lower that is cast into it by another creature. It “casts” this spell when commanded to do so or when a predefined situation arises. Once this spell is used, the shield guardian can store another spell (or the same spell again).

Construction: A shield guardian's base materials cost an additional 25,000 gp above the base golem's cost. The creature's master may assemble the body or hire someone else to do the job. The Craft check required to make the body is 4 higher than normal for the base golem's kind. The keyed amulet is fashioned at the same time—it costs 20,000 gp above and beyond the shield guardian's total cost. After the body is sculpted, the shield guardian is animated through an extended magical ritual that requires a specially prepared laboratory or workroom, similar to an alchemist's laboratory and costing 500 gp to establish. If the creator is personally constructing the creature's body, the building and the ritual can be performed together. The creator must have a minimum caster level of 2 higher than the base golem's minimum required caster level. In addition, the following spells are added to the base golem's requirements: discern location and either shield or shield other.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Iron Golem wrote:

An iron golem’s body is sculpted from 5,000 pounds of iron, smelted with rare tinctures costing at least 10,000 gp.

Like, that right there tells me as both a GM and a player that the corpse of an Iron Golem alone is worth what, 5k? I mean, the monster is CR 13, so it's likely not being encountered by PCs until about level 9 at the earliest right? Well, that group of PCs could still have a scroll of Make Whole right? It is entirely conceivable that between Make Whole, Prestidigitation and other spells, clever players running 9th level PCs could salvage the body of a defeated iron golem, intact, for resale.

Now, I'm not talking about reusing it as a golem the party controls, although I suppose that's possible. I brought up Trophies to use it as a possible guideline for what the golem's body might be worth. Still, I suppose a GM could house rule that a Trophy could be made from a specific part of a golem's body for sale or use in magic item creation.

But I'm thinking more of the pure loot value of the golem itself. In my own home games, I encourage players to get creative with treasure finding; I use a lot of monsters that don't carry cash or loot ON them and a lot of wandering monster encounters, so PCs have to actually hunt for treasure in my games often.

To counter this I add flowery details when narrating scenes. Yeah, you encountered a pair of zombies wearing rags in a tomb that's already been raided, but there are Medium sized candle stands crafted of wrought iron and with a highly artistic style that might be worth money if you're willing to lug them around.

So in that vein I guess I was just thinking: what if golems are their own loot? Like, it is so expensive to make them in the first place, maybe there's rare metals or gems or substances that can be recovered from their inert forms after defeating them that equals, say, half or a quarter of their base price or creation cost?

[TxSam88]

This screams of power gaming to me. I hate it when players look for every single minute way of gaining coin from the game. I would not allow this in a game at all, unless a character was on a specific quest to build an artifact and needed a list of very specific pieces.

I would rather just give more coin to my players than deal with the nitpickiness of salvaging monster parts and dealing with transporting/preserving them until they can be sold. I have adventures I want my players to be doing, not dealing with mundane things like butchering golems.

[Totally Not Gorbacz]

TxSam88 wrote:

This screams of power gaming to me. I hate it when players look for every single minute way of gaining coin from the game.

Well, this is the one and only iteration of D&D (and one of few RPGs in general) that invites and rewards power gaming and where money = character power, so that's not entirely surprising.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

TxSam88 wrote:

This screams of power gaming to me. I hate it when players look for every single minute way of gaining coin from the game.

Well, this is the one and only iteration of D&D (and one of few RPGs in general) [...] where money = character power

If you ignore the early editions where the majority of your xp came 1=1 from the gp value of your loot, which is even more money = power than 3.x. Not to mention that you could easily play 2e as buying and selling magic items all over the place, if you wished, and magic items were a vital part of your power level.

[TxSam88]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

TxSam88 wrote:

This screams of power gaming to me. I hate it when players look for every single minute way of gaining coin from the game.

Well, this is the one and only iteration of D&D (and one of few RPGs in general) that invites and rewards power gaming and where money = character power, so that's not entirely surprising.

Yeah, pretty much every edition of D&D has rewarded power gaming, and GP has always equaled more and better magic items. (and as mentioned XP in some editions).

I only mention it to make sure this particular GM (I hope it's a GM) is aware of the situation and does his best to curtail the problem. However, if he is fine with higher power levels in his game, then I reiterate, don't worry about the nuances of tracking of body parts etc, just give your patty the treasure level you want them to have. Game time is scarce, don't spend it on trivial parts of the game, spend it on the exciting parts.

[Mark Hoover 330]

I have no problem letting players monetize any part of their adventuring. in fact I encourage it. I don't put obvious piles of treasure everywhere, I expect PCs to work for it, and that doesn't just mean Perception checks for hidden caches of loot.

A wilderness "dungeon" with multiple animal and vermin encounters is unlikely to yield up huge treasure hoards. I might pepper in a fallen adventurer's corpse or a chest of faerie gold secreted in a cave, but I'm pretty stingy and usually only give the average gold for what the encounter calls for.

I COULD make up for this by doubling or tripling treasure in future games but frankly I'm not that good at planning stuff out, even with spreadsheets. Instead I'll remind the players that this animal's hide or meat is a valued commodity in town, or that the poison from this vermin has buyers in the black market. I might also set up a rumor of the area being watched over by some forest protector, like fey, spirits or druids.

The players might decide to respect the area and the forest protectors, or they might try to monetize rare flora and fauna in the area of the adventure. Either of these might yield money or NPC boons. They might also decide to roleplay out trying to sell some of the stuff they find, to negotiate for better pricing. Once everything is sold and boons resolved, they might use the Downtime rules to generate Magic capital and make a bunch of cheap magic items.

All of these lead to good use of the players' ingenuity and listening skills, utilization of non-combat skills and abilities of the PCs and greater interaction with the environment than just seeing every encounter as a battle map. That's my opinion anyway.