Becoming a Runelord


Advice

Liberty's Edge

My group is currently going through Return of the Runelords (currently starting Book 5) and one of my players (Wizard Evoker) has stated that once they finish that he would like to take up the mantle of the Runelord of Wrath.

Is there anything other than just allowing him to call himself that and be done with it (the Campaign will be over by then) that I should prepare for him to do?


They player's character could start doing that, but it's not going to be much different than any powerful wizard trying to adopt such a mantle.

No one that cared about or respected the mantle is likely to support the assertion, and trying to claim it will probably just paint a target on his back.

Whatever ceremonies or anything else that would have been done have likely been lost to time and the destruction of those who had borne the title.

I'll put it like this, what you're player is doing is a bit like if someone killed the Pope, and then declared they were the new Pope. It might work in the very short term, but it's definitely going to involve some fighting in the future.


Well, unless they're a Thassalonian Specialist, I'd say that that's the first step. I'd think to be recognized as a runelord, you'd have to actually practice Thassalonian magic.

There's no body that bestows the title upon a person, but if history is any indicator, killing the previous Runelord and taking their place is an accepted form of advancement. Most of these appear to have been by apprentices or academic rivals.

However, I believe that the swords of sin will recognize/acknowledge their corresponding Runelord[needs citation], so if an intelligent magic item thinks you're cool, that could be a way to do it.

Its a nice title, but it conveys very little, unless the PC is interested in getting in on the New Thassalon craze that will boom with the end of Return of the Runelords.

As end of campaign accomplishments go, 'I become the Runelord of Wrath' is fairly easy to grant.


Kasoh wrote:

Well, unless they're a Thassalonian Specialist, I'd say that that's the first step. I'd think to be recognized as a runelord, you'd have to actually practice Thassalonian magic.

There's no body that bestows the title upon a person, but if history is any indicator, killing the previous Runelord and taking their place is an accepted form of advancement. Most of these appear to have been by apprentices or academic rivals.

However, I believe that the swords of sin will recognize/acknowledge their corresponding Runelord[needs citation], so if an intelligent magic item thinks you're cool, that could be a way to do it.

Its a nice title, but it conveys very little, unless the PC is interested in getting in on the New Thassalon craze that will boom with the end of Return of the Runelords.

As end of campaign accomplishments go, 'I become the Runelord of Wrath' is fairly easy to grant.

Would you though? (Have to practice Thassalonian magic) It was a tradition, but who's going to enforce it? It might help to legitimize the position the player seeks to claim. But as you state, their is no governing body from which power is derived. There are no laws or system of government that exists based around this.

At best, there is a system of dependency around the old runelord where people relied on or feared the runelord and did things because of that. With someone new trying to become the runelord...that's unlikely to exist. But they could try to create such a system.

Honestly the title of runelords are only meaningful within the time context that they existed and the power inherent to such individuals.


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I suppose no one, but the OP asked for stuff the PC might want to do or the GM might require besides put up an end of the campaign slide of 'And Fireball D. Evoker claimed the title of Runelord of Wrath and lived happily ever after' or whatever.

Runelords were Thassalonian specialists, which is unique in that they are unable to cast their opposition schools at all. That is rooted deeply into their stories and the way they overcame problems. Sitting in my GM chair, I say, yeah that's an important bit of flavor to me. Since the PC has to do what I say to get the thing they want, its time to spend money retraining wizard levels.

Nothing stops a PC from saying whatever they want. Any wizard can claim to be a Runelord at anytime. But assuming the intent is to actually be the next Runelord of Wrath, like the kind that are recognized by the Alara'quin and the Alara'hai then yeah.

Is the title meaningless to modern society on Golarion? Sure. But like that's ever stopped a PC before.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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The average Golarion citizen, or even any mid-level wizard, has no real way of noticing whether you can't cast spells from your opposition schools or just don't cast them; and probably can't tell the difference between regular and Thassilonian magic. So I don't think that's it.

Rather, you should pull a Razmir. Go to any big city, publically declare yourself the Runelord of Wrath, and messily blow up anybody who gainsays you. Heck, obliterate a nearby city and put some craters in the landscape to prove your point. That's how you become a Runelord.

(one PFS scenario has a low-level NPC doing exactly this, too, until the PCs put a stop to it)


Cambourne wrote:

he would like to take up the mantle of the Runelord of Wrath.

Is there anything other than just allowing him to call himself that and be done with it (the Campaign will be over by then) that I should prepare for him to do?

I'd ask him what he expects from it:

The fame?
Special powers?
The former runelord's territory?
Their treasure?
Their minions?

Simply granting him the title would be possible, but players usually prefer to work for their achievements - they feel more worthwhile that way.

The ascension to the throne of a runelord could easily drive a new campaign: There are ancients secrets to be unveiled, powerful rivals to be neutralized and eldritch places to be conquered. Maybe you will need ambassadors in nearby countries - and agents who keep an eye on those pesky other runelords.

How much effort are you willing to put into it? And what are the stances of the other players?


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Yeah, I guess what I was trying to get at is: the player character declares they wish to be the next Runelord of Wrath, and so they do. And nothing in particular changes until they actually try to get stuff. Stuff that isn't necessarily predicated on the title, but on actions those who held the title took.

Basically everything the runelord achieved they did so by harming and taking from others. Asking to be the next runelord isn't a "and so it came to pass" but a set up for a whole new adventure.

One that probably, your former compatriots that just helped end the runelords aren't going to be keen on having happen.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Claxon wrote:

Yeah, I guess what I was trying to get at is: the player character declares they wish to be the next Runelord of Wrath, and so they do. And nothing in particular changes until they actually try to get stuff. Stuff that isn't necessarily predicated on the title, but on actions those who held the title took....

One that probably, your former compatriots that just helped end the runelords aren't going to be keen on having happen.

I guess it depends on what stuff they want. They want the territory that was once Bakrakhan? A lot of people will probably have a problem with that.

If I played characters like that, I'd probably wrap up that AP by declaring an admiration for Alaznist's accomplishments and then secretly work with the GM on the next campaign (or become the GM) to have my former character be eventually revealed as the villain. But I think it would take a lot of homebrew wizardry to make that adventure something more than a retread of when the last couple Runelords tried to take over the world or restore ancient Thassilon to its former glory.


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One of my players started talking like this, about "reclaiming the title" and making it about the 7 virtues. I told him that was akin to announcing yourself as the Fuhrer of the fourth reich, but this time it's going to be a good and kind reich.... He dropped the idea.

Grand Lodge

I take a different stance -- who cares that there's no published way and that RuneLords haven't been a thing and replacing the pope and etc. A player has a strong interest for his PC in the game -- Make. It. Happen.

....Since there's nothing in the AP, grab the Mythic book. Find some unique Archmage abilities and cobble something together that's not necessarily RAW. ....Then take a look at the RuneLord stat blocks that we do have to find unique abilities and throw one or two of them on your page.

You can create an Archetype, maybe starting at 18th or 19th Level with this or that from Mythic and this or that from RuneLord stats.

The PC can find a Thassilonian Tome that is kinda like a chapter of Alaznist's old spellbook or something. Put it in treasure after a tough fight and the player will be that much more into the campaign.

Just give extra boons to the other PCs, too.

Encourage it. Allow it. Make it happen.

Dark Archive

I haven't done anything particularly special yet, but Return of the Runelords definitely offers some of those chances almost naturally for a PC and I do have a character who has officially taken 1 of the Runelord mantles.


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The traditional way to take up a runelords mantle is well, Klingon style: kill the current holder, claim the title, and kill anyone who disputes said claim... Assuming the party succeeds in the AP...


pad300 wrote:
The traditional way to take up a runelords mantle is well, Klingon style: kill the current holder, claim the title, and kill anyone who disputes said claim... Assuming the party succeeds in the AP...

Yep, I think that's the long and short of it.

If the player wants it, they're going to make the claim and then spend a bunch of time defending the claim from everyone who decides it's time to kill them.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

With no Bakrakhan around, I feel like people would just roll their eyes and say, "Yes, of course you are." Like if I declared myself King of Marshmallow-land.

Shadow Lodge

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I could go online and declare myself Pharaoh of Egypt, but I doubt it would gain me many followers (then again, being the internet, it might).

I'd expect a similar situation with declaring yourself Runelord: Since there is no longer a region ruled by someone with that title, it's basically meaningless...

DISCLAIMER: I am currently playing chapter 4 of Return of the Runelords and know basically nothing about them beyond what has been presented in this particular AP.


The story idea presented by Tom Parker (perhaps unknowingly) is that your players next goal would be to raise the land that was Bakrakhan from the ocean floor and return it to glory, then the player could claim to be the Runelord of Wrath, with some accomplishment to back it up.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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If raising an island is too hard for you, you can also start with Hollow Mountain (between Riddleport and Magnimar; former capital of Runelord Alaznist; and setting of a series of Pathfinder comics).

Then again, if raising an island is too hard for you, you probably have no business caling yourself a Runelord :P


Kurald Galain wrote:

If raising an island is too hard for you, you can also start with Hollow Mountain (between Riddleport and Magnimar; former capital of Runelord Alaznist; and setting of a series of Pathfinder comics).

Then again, if raising an island is too hard for you, you probably have no business caling yourself a Runelord :P

I mean, if raising an island is no problem for you, might as well gun for Aroden's old job.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'm sure they'll enjoy it, although I remain skeptical. Shattered Star showed us that the raised land of ancient Thassilon is at best a mess, at worst horrifically dangerous. There's probably no population that's going to flock there, especially the nearby populations with mostly elected mayors who might be loathe to trade that for a new despot—and that's after solving the problem of how to raise a nation from the sea.

It could be fun (from my perspective) if they embarked on the difficult work of restoring a nation and offering opportunities for those who immigrate there. Otherwise they're having to subjugate a nation's worth of people, and the PCs are just not very nice people. But the former sounds like a sort of New Bakrakhan Kingmaker.

Dark Archive

Without being too spoilery, Book 5 does make it somewhat easier to imagine becoming a particular Runelord if one is so inclined.

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