| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sounds like rubbish to me, tbh. Don't know your DM, obviously, but that sounds like a red flag to me.
Stands to reason an airborne creature should be expected to fly- or at least glide / hover / perch - without dropping like a rock for lack of commands.
I'd understand having it need to land between movements when situations merited it (environmental conditions or if indoors), but not simply falling. Not unless a spell or net were used.
I suppose you should explain your position with the DM and figure out what the deal is.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think your GM is citing the rule stated within the "FLY" action, specifically the last two sentences which state:
"You can use an action to Fly 0 feet to hover in place. If you’re airborne at the end of your turn and didn’t use a Fly action this round, you fall." (CRB p. 472)
In my experience (I play a druid with a bird animal companion) this rule is largely ignored at tables because either its so little known or seen as punitive to any PC with a minion with a flying speed.
If I had to guess, this aspect of the FLY action serves to replace the monster feat of "Hover" from Pathfinder First Edition.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm setting up a ranger and plan on using a bird for my animal companion my gm argues if previously flying and don't command it the next turn it will fall. Yet in minion trait it says it will avoid obvious harm if not commanded wouldn't falling be obvious harm? I'm concerned that if I'm paralyzed or get downed or incapacitate in some way that my companion would just fall possibly to its death. What's the ruling on what avoiding obvious harm includes
Falling is obvious harm. And landing when there's a combat is going toward danger, so it seems once again against the spirit of the rules.
If your GM is concerned about birds staying out of reach in the air, you can tell them that anyway your companion is useless in the air, it can only attack/support at melee range.| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Right! I've argued my point and the best he's willing to do is have it land if no actions are granted. His argument is that I could keep it out of reach of most enemies witch is one of the pluses of a flying AC since AC's are pretty squishy but to me the draw back of them is there attacks aren't the best. And anyways it would have to be in threat when used anyhow so I don't see the issue in having the option to get it mostly out of harm way if needed. He's just one to follow specific rule over discretion, but if I can get a moder to weigh in and agree with me he'll probably change his stance
It's not just land and stand still the Minion will activly defend itself or move to avoid harm.
If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm.
It won't just land and sit there like a bump on a log while Glen the Goblin slices it up. And it's not going to fly to obvious harm.
Animal companions and familiars are part creature and part class feature. As a creature, they ought to be able to act on their own, but as a class feature, their actions are limited to keep their usefulness capped.
The actions of animal companions fall under the minion trait, "Your animal companion has the minion trait, and it gains 2 actions during your turn if you use the Command an Animal action to command it; this is in place of the usual effects of Command an Animal."-- PF2 Core Rulebook, page 214.
minion (trait) Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. A creature with this trait can use only 2 actions per turn and can’t use reactions. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when you spend an action to issue it commands. For an animal companion, you Command an Animal; for a minion that’s a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain an Activation; if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command, a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits. If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm. If left unattended for long enough, typically 1 minute, mindless minions usually don’t act, animals follow their instincts, and sapient minions act how they please.
The minion trait allows two reasons for an airborne animal companion to Fly without a command: to escape obvious harm and to follow their instincts.
My players and I have worked out house interpretations of this. The GM rather than the player decides which action the animal companion will take to escape harm. The flying animal could continue to fly near its master, or it could fly to a safer location, or it could land nearby. My players and I have discussed typical behavior for their companions so that I as the GM can make choices that match the companion's expected behavior.
For example, the champion Tikti says that her velociraptor Liklik likes to lick things. So I often have Liklik lick a rock or flower when Tikti is not giving orders. Yet Liklik also likes to stay near Tikti, so she will follow Tikti even without commands. The druid Stormdancer has an impressive homebrew animal companion, a fledgling roc mount named Roxie. And sometimes Stormdancer will cast metamagic spells while riding atop Roxie in midair that uses all three of her actions (to limit the usefulness of a flying mount, Stormdancer has to cast her stormwind flight focus spell to allow aerial riding). Roxie's standard behavior in that case is a Fly action to hover in place.
I'm setting up a ranger and plan on using a bird for my animal companion my gm argues if previously flying and don't command it the next turn it will fall. Yet in minion trait it says it will avoid obvious harm if not commanded wouldn't falling be obvious harm? I'm concerned that if I'm paralyzed or get downed or incapacitate in some way that my companion would just fall possibly to its death. What's the ruling on what avoiding obvious harm includesIt's all about actions per round, not flavor or "reality".
At some point the companion is going to have its own action if not commanded, but it would only be able to use it to stride ( no fly ) or strike ( normal strikes ).
I can't say for sure whether the "stride > No fly" might be intended or an oversight, but mechanically speaking it's easy to get.
Normal companion? You have to command it. Being commanded the companion can also take the fly action.
Normal companion not commanded? It stands still doing nothing ( because the player didn't expend 1 of its action to give 2 to the minion ).
Mature companion ( 1 free action if not commanded )? It can take 1 single action which can be either stride or strike.
So, talking about a mature companion, it can either slowly fall down ( slowly falls down to prevent arguing like "the bird won't fall down harming itself" > "Don't worry, the bird safetly lands on its feets, then can stride" ) and then stride or can use the stride action to also fly depends the DM.
Where is the rule on only Stride/Strike if on it's own. if it's there I want to know so I can point players at the rule I'm changing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This should be in the ranger and Druid feats. I think Mature Companion for Rangers lets a companion take one action vs hunted prey (Stride or Strike) and one of the Druid feats does the same but without reference to hunted prey. These are bonuses to allow the companion to take combat actions even when not commanded, and shouldn't be considered to override the companion's 'idle behaviour' imho
This should be in the ranger and Druid feats. I think Mature Companion for Rangers lets a companion take one action vs hunted prey (Stride or Strike) and one of the Druid feats does the same but without reference to hunted prey. These are bonuses to allow the companion to take combat actions even when not commanded, and shouldn't be considered to override the companion's 'idle behaviour' imho
Right it shouldn't be saying that without a forth level feat your animal companion stays right where it is an dies.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Clearly the animal companions have their submission beaten into them so long and so hard that they are terrified of taking any action at all save by their master's clearly expressed will. Without orders, they will cower in place, shivering and whimpering, regardless of what might happen to it, because they know deep in their bones that the alternative is worse.
That was sarcasm.
On the flip side... it's your GM's table. If that's their adjudication, then you can try to convince them, but it's their decision at the end of the day. If they insist on this particular houserule, you may want to consider a nonflying companion. It's a bit control-freaky of them, but GMs... often have at least a few control freak tendencies. If the rest of their GMing style is not particularly objectionable to you, it might be better just to let them have this win.
Alternately, if this character concept just will not work with a nonflying companion, I'd suggest making a different character entirely, and save your ranger-with-a-bird concept for a GM who's willing to be a bit friendlier on the pertinent rules.
Hell if they insist on this ruling I would look at retraining out of my companion.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If anything they have it inverted.
If you do not command them then they should be piloted by the GM so that they move to safety or to simply maintain flight. If YOU command them while they are already flying though and you order it to make two Strikes or otherwise spend their Action on things other than Actions that include flight then they would fall.
This is a strange one. In 1E you would be able to make a fly check for free to hover. 2E's 3 action system and the rules for flight agree with your GM I think. If we are going off of realism, most birds can't hover without wind. Although they can glide.
In my game I would rule that if they don't end on the ground they continue to glide in the direction they were moving at some portion of the total movement also losing some height. Further tho I would probably allow a mature or specialized companion to have something like 1e's hover universal monster ability.