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Hello guys,
I'd appreciate some advice on building a Human Ninja, since i'm approaching the class (and the style of playing-a.k.a. stealthy stuff) for the first time.
I'm already reading down the guide, but i'm not sure if it's updated (is it?).
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You'll want Vanishing Trick, Flurry of Stars and Invisible blade as soon as you can get them.
Greater Invisibility as a SLA, combined with Flurry of stars = lots of sneak attack damage.
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Is there a specific reason you have chosen to be Human for this Ninja? Personally, I prefer Gnomes when it comes to Ninjas, not that anyone cares. But being able to take Bewildering Koan is a great way to expand on what your Ninja can do.
Ninjas have no built-in Dex-to-DMG, so you really are not locked into Dex builds. As a Human you could take the Varisian Tattoo trait for proficiency with Starknives, and the Noble Scion of War and Desna's Shooting Star feats at level one to put attack, damage, and Initiative on Charisma.
Ninjas have pathetic saves, so a Shaman's Apprentice Half-Orc with Sacred Tattoos and Fate's Favored may be a better choice than both Human or Gnome.
Vanishing Trick, Combat Reflexes, and a Longspear is a fun way to get Sneak Attack AoO... and can be done at early levels.
I like the Mask of the Living God archetype [because I am a huge fan of all things Razmir]. You give up Poison Use, but poison sucks anyways. Can't spend Ki to make an extra attack, which sucks, but whatever. Stern Gaze makes for fun Intimidate shenanigans.
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Thanks for the answers.
Human because i'm willing to play one, that's the only reason.
I see your build on Starknives, that's a DEX build right? I guess how a STR build is done/will perform.
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I see your build on Starknives, that's a DEX build right?
It's a CHA-based build.
Among the divine fighting manuals of the Inner Sea, few are as ancient as Clamor of the Spheres, a collection of fighting techniques favored by Desna’s faithful. True to its name, the manual focuses on interpreting the chaos and sounds of combat, but nevertheless provides insightful and downright brilliant methods of defense with Desna’s favored weapon, using techniques that treat a fight with a starknife more as a beautiful dance than a battle.
Initial Benefit: You can add your Charisma bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls when wielding a starknife. If you do so, you don’t modify attack rolls and damage rolls with your starknife with your Strength modifier, your Dexterity modifier (if you have Weapon Finesse), or any other ability score (if you have an ability that allows you to modify attack rolls and damage rolls with that ability score).
This would make you a very CHA-based character, which is good since you Ki-pool runs off CHA. You could even take a level of SCALED FIST MONK for CHA-to-AC, or 2 levels of Paladin for the CHA-to-saves , though at a certain point you want to play a ninja, so you'll want Ninja levels. VoodistMonks suggestions don't take away Ninja levels if you like the high-CHA route.
EDIT: I don't know how but I lost half my post. VoodistMonk also mentioned NOBLE SCION .
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We are going to go with the Hunting Serpent archetype for this, because it has an built-in accuracy bonus... which we want. The bonus is dependent upon Sneak Attack, but that is what Vanishing Trick is for.
Human, Heart of the Fey replaces Skilled... Ninjas get plenty of skills per level, plus we want the bonus to Will saves and low-light vision. Keep the bonus feat so we can start with both Desna's Shooting Star and Noble Scion of War. Noble Scion gives us back Know:Nobility, which Hunting Serpent trades for Survival, and gives a bonus to that Knowledge skill... on top of switching Initiative to Charisma.
Anyways, for traits we will want Varisian Tattoo for Starknife proficiency and the bonus to saves against charms/compulsions. Might want either the Armor Expert or Armor Master traits, so we can wear Mithral Breastplate without penalty [when we can afford it]. I would take a drawback in order to get the Child of the Temple trait, as well... we want Know:Religion as a class skill so we can take Deific Obedience and Diverse Obedience later on.
Feats:
1. Desna's Shooting Star
1. Noble Scion of War
3. Combat Relfexes
5. Point Blank Shot
7. Deific Obedience (Desna)
9. Diverse Obedience
11. Steadfast Personality
13. Startoss Shower
Ninja Tricks:
2. Vanishing Trick
4. Weapon Training
6. Style Master (Startoss Style)
8. Combat Trick (Startoss Comet)
14. Invisible Blade
Combat Reflexes allows you to make AoO in the surprise round, it is the best we get because Hunting Serpent trades away Uncanny Dodge. We grab Weapon Focus before Point Blank Shot because it applies to melee and ranged attacks. We grab the Startoss feats because their damage bonus also applies to both melee and ranged attacks. Deific/Diverse Obedience works best taken before level 10, so you can pick your first boon from whatever list you want. Steadfast Personality is probably better than Iron Will, but Iron Will covers more ground... take your pick between the two at level 11.
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I'd appreciate some advice on building a Human Ninja, since i'm approaching the class (and the style of playing-a.k.a. stealthy stuff) for the first time.
- Usual question: What do you actually want? As in, what do you want your character be able to do, what kind of stuff do you want and what kind of stuff not want.
Second question: How set are you on Ninja as the class? It is not required to play a ninja style character.
This would make you a very CHA-based character, which is good since you Ki-pool runs off CHA.
It should be noted that by default nothing else from the class runs off your charisma, making it just an increase to the ki pool and social skills+UMD for the cost of a feat and havign to use a weak weapon. Which is why I like the Rogue Talent Silencing Strike on that build - Vanishing Trick makes triggering it easy, and silencing spellcasters is nice.
I've heard the Vigilante archetype Teisatsu referred to as the Unchained Ninja, I don't know how true that is but it possibly could be a better option for a ninja than the ninja class which seems to have been neglected.
Teisatsu gets a lot of good stuff, patching holes and granting awesome things alike. What it doesn't get, however, is Invisible Blade (and can't get Vanishing Trick until 4th level), which for many is the reason to play Ninja in the first place. Until then, and apart form that, it's way stronger, though:
- Strong will save and the Companion to the Lonely social talent remove one of the Ninja's most glaring weaknesses.- The Social Grace (you can fight in your social identity!), Well-Known Expert, Ancestral Enlightenment, and Skill Familiarity social talents makes them much better at skills than a Ninja.
- Take ’Em Alive provides a much needed accuracy boost.
- Tiger’s Claws opens up the possibility of natural attack builds.
- Cunning Feint can make feinting work, and if you have a racial bite attack, kets you feint without spending actions or relevant attacks.
- Lethal Grace makes dex-based a better option than on a Ninja (although not compared to unRogue).
- Ki Power talent can grant some truly awesome stuff (check out my overview of them for unMonk). You only ever get one, but if you want to be able to walk- through-walls plus flight an invisibility starting at 4th level for the ultimate infiltrator, thirst for a swift action Freedom of Movement for your "I won't ever get caught" character, or just want the ability to hold your breath for ~12 hours (and go without drinking for ~6 days, and needing but 2 hours of sleep per day), this is your chance!
One important thing is that the Many Guises social talent literally makes the character an actual ninja - not in the contemporary fiction style, but in the actual historical style. Real life ninjas infiltrated by blending in with common people, and this social talent does exactly that. There are some other social talents like Notorious Fool and Mockingbird that help for such a playstyle, although not every campaign has the opportunities.
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Building on what a few others have said above...the Ninja class isn't a very good chassis. Not even for stealth, and especially not when comparing to all the other options out there.
Personally, I find sneak attack to be a bad class feature to try to build around, which is what every Ninja (class) or Rogue (class) tries to build around. However, you can achieve bonus damage to attacks through many means and flavor it as something ninja-like.
My immediate go to for this kind of thing is the Stygian Slayer archetype of the Slayer class. While Slayer's still have sneak attack, they also have studied target and full BAB.
Slayer's sneak attack is only have the damage progression and is a nice bonus when it happens but you don't need to fixate on it as much because you have studied target to carry you.
The best part is being able to pick up ranger combat styles as a Slayer Talent but you can also access Rogue/Ninja talents if there are any you really want.
Basically Slayer is a straight upgrade to Rogue and Ninja in my opinion.
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Personally, I'd strongly consider building an archery based Stygian Slayer. TWF always sounds appealing, but the truth is that it isn't actually very good.
Archery ends up with 1 less total attack IIRC, but doesn't pay nearly as much price because you only need 1 weapon as opposed to 2 (and the enhancements that are required). Plus, with access to Ranger Combat Styles you can pick up Point Blank Master and Improved Precise Shot which negate the only real downside of Archery.