I have had a go at putting some Summoner builds together. I like a lot about how it turned out. I've been able to find a niche for most of the Eidolons.
I don't like that my Summoners all look the same attribute wise. But I just can't justify putting a melee weapon on a Summoner given the shared MAP problem, and even if I did take Tandem Strike I'd be doing it with a bow. It just doesn't make any sense when you can just have your Eidolon attack instead. Likewise Tandem Movement kept getting trimmed out. Not enough feats.
Anyway feedback welcome.
Summoner
A fun pet class that fits a lot of concepts, the Summoner is not for those new to the game. It has some unique rules, a shared 4 actions between you and your pet Eidolon, you also share hit points and a multiple attack penalty. You’ll have to go through it yourself but you do need to understand Act Together and Tandem actions.
The main feature of the class is build a pet. Plus the magic of the Summoner which can be of any type. So let’s look at some options.
Dragon Lord
It’s a well balanced package. The dragon has a breath weapon that doubles as a moderate ranged attack if you take the line option. Its level 7 Draconic Frenzy gives it some spice in melee. Very flavourful and straight forward.
Caster Arcane: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Eidolon Dragon Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon, Sling for you to use when the dragon breathes fire. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Advanced Weaponry for grapple, Glider Form Level 4: Lifelink Surge it’s great healing for you, later try and get Bloodletting Claws too, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 8: Hulking Size, Level 10:, Level 12: Grasping Limbs, Level 14: Airborne Form
Skills: Intimidation, Deception primarily for you, Athletics mostly for your pet,
Some spell suggestions, but unlike a wizard you don’t get to keep them all. I recommend trying to select only those that can turn an encounter by themselves. Most of your casting will be the cantrips.
Cantrips : Electric Arc, Ray of Frost, Telekinetic Projectile , Protect Companion
1st: Befuddle get a Ring of Wizardry, Magic Fang
2nd: Flaming Sphere, Illusory Creature, Dispel Magic
3rd: Haste, Vampiric Touch, Fear
4th: Resilient Sphere, Suggestion
5th: Wall of Stone, Glimmer of Charm, Pillars of Sand, Shadow Siphon
6th: Chain Lightning, Slow, Dragon Form, Wall of Force
7th: Contingency, Haste, True Target, Frigid Flurry
8th: Disappearance, Horrid Wilting, Maze, Undermine Reality
9th: Foresight, Implosion, Weird,
The Golem
Though I like the idea of it being a huge Toy soldier while the summoner is a Poppet. What makes this eidolon interesting is that you can reconfigure it in a day, and it's the toughest Eidolon because of its extra first level saving throw bonuses to a big range of nasty effects
Caster Arcane: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Eidolon Construct Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Extend Boost, Level 2: Reinforce Eidolon, Level 4: Lifelink Surge it’s great healing for you,, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 7: Bloodletting Claws Level 8: Hulking Size, Level 10:Protective Bond, Weighty Impact
Skills: Intimidation, Deception, Crafting for you, Athletics for your pet,
For spell suggestions see previous.
Magic Fairy
The Fey Eidolon is not built to do as much damage in melee but to cast spells. Unfortunately you can’t both attack with a cantrip from range. However there are still some unique things you can do, for example this build can have two Flaming Spheres going at the same time. Plus all those spells like Blazing Dive and Draw the Lightning can be used quite well by your Eidolon. The downside being you just don’t actually have that much magic to use. It does have a regular ranged attack as required and is still Ok in melee.
Caster Primal: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Eidolon Fey Eidolon: Str 14, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 12; +1 AC, with the 1d6 damage (deadly d8 and finesse) primary attack. That's right you don’t actually need Charisma for your spell DC.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon, Sling as you want to have the option of a ranged attack. The General Feat Adopted Ancestry + backstory you enjoy their culture + Elven Weapon Familiarity route to get a bow proficiency is always an action efficient option. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Glider Form - works very well with jump, Extend Boost, Level 2:Ranged Combatant, Level 4: Lifelink Surge it’s great healing for you, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 8: Eidolon's Wrath Level 10: Protective Bond, Level 12: Link Focus Level 14: Airborne Form
Skills: Intimidation, Deception, Stealth for both of you
Some primal spell suggestions. Most of your casting will be the cantrips.
Cantrips : Electric Arc, Ray of Frost, Guidance, Protect Companion
1st: Magic Fang, Heal in fact always keep one available
2nd: Flaming Sphere, Thundering Dominance, Longstrider, Restoration, Dispel Magic
3rd: Envenom Companion, Crashing Wave, Wall of Thorns, Fear
4th: Dinosaur Form, Air Walk
5th: Chameleon Coat, Pillars of Sand, Wall of Stone
6th: Chain Lightning, Dragon Form, Nature’s Reprisal
7th: Cosmic Form, Eclipse Burst,
8th: Monstrosity Form, Polar Ray, Wind Walk
9th: Implosion, Upheaval
For the Eidolon
Cantrips: Electric Arc, Guidance
1st: Magic Fang, Shockwave
2nd: Flaming Sphere, Animal Form, Longstrider, Restoration
3rd: Blazing Dive, Fear
4th: Stoneskin, Draw the Lightning
5th: Chameleon Coat, Pillars of Sand, Wall of Stone
6th: Chain Lightning, Dragon Form, Nature’s Reprisal
7th: Control Sand, Eclipse Burst,
Treant
The Treant is a huge Plant Eidolon that stands its ground and controls an area.
Caster Primal: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Eidolon Plant Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Extend Boost, Level 2: Reinforce Eidolon, Level 4: Bloodletting Claws, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 8: Hulking Size, Level 10:Protective Bond or Weighty Impact Level 12: Towering Size, Level 14: Resilient Shell, Level 16: Trample
Skills: Intimidation, Deception, Crafting for you, Athletics for your pet,
For spell suggestions see previous.
Leader of the Pack
A summoner who has a lot of pets and summons more.
Caster Arcane: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Eidolon Beast Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon, Heavy Crossbow for you to use when all your pets are out, reload between encounters. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Extend Boost, Level 2: Beastmaster Dedication for a Hawk flying is important to just getting into combat with this many pets, Level 4: Mature Beastmaster Companion, Level 6: Master Summoner Level 8: Incredible Beastmaster's Companion, Level 10: Protective Bond, Weighty Impact, Level 14: Specialized Beastmaster Companion
Skills: Intimidation, Deception primarily for you, Athletics mostly for your pet,
For spell suggestions see the Magic Fairy entry. But this build will always have Heal, Summon Animal or other summon spells.
Phantom Knight
The phantom likes to stay close to his rider to protect him.
Caster Occult: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Eidolon Devotion Phantom Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Extend Boost, Level 2: Steed Form, Level 4: Bloodletting Claws, Level 6: Eidolon's Wrath, Level 8: Hulking Size, Level 10:Protective Bond then Weighty Impact Level 14: Resilient Shell,
Skills: Intimidation, Deception, for you, Athletics for your pet,
For spell suggestions try these:
Cantrips : Shield, Telekinetic Projectile, Detect Magic, Light, Guidance
1st: Biting Words, Soothe, Summon Fey,
2nd: Spiritual Weapon, Illusory Creature,
3rd: Heroism, Vampiric Touch, Fear
4th: Phantasmal Killer, Resilient Sphere
5th: Glimmer of Charm, Synesthesia
6th: Scintillating Safeguard, Vampiric Exsanguination
7th: Reverse Gravity, True Target
8th: Maze, Undermine Reality
9th: Foresight, Wail of the Banshee
The Untouchable
A passive holy man and his protector. He tries to avoid combat, looks for the diplomatic solution and does not carry a weapon. He always rushes to help the injured. His servant however is very protective. His Eidolon will often cast Invisibility on him so he is not affected by the fight.
Caster Divine: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Eidolon Psychopomp Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon. A wand of Summoner's Precaution and Sanctuary, a Staff of Healing
Class Feats: Level 1:Dual Studies and if you can Extend Boost, Level 2: Medic Dedication Level 4: Doctor’s Visitation, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Eidolon's Wrath, Level 10:Protective Bond then Weighty Impact Level 14: Resilient Shell,
Skills: Diplomacy and Bon Mot for you, Athletics for your pet, Medicine and Battle Medicine for you both.
For spell suggestions try these, maybe some of them aren’t so passive but I’ll let you sort that out.
Cantrips : Protect Companion, Forbidding Ward, Detect Magic, Light, Guidance
1st: Bless, Heal, Sanctuary
2nd: Faerie Fire, Spiritual Weapon,
3rd: Circle of Protection, Heroism, Fear
4th: Freedom of Movement, Globe of Invulnerability, Spiritual Anamnesis
5th: Shadow Blast, Wall of Flesh
6th: Repulsion, True Seeing,
7th: Eclipse Burst, Sunburst
8th: Antimagic Field, Divine Aura
9th: Foresight,
Rules problem: Your Eidolon has got longstrider active on it, it’s stupefied, suffering ongoing damage, and it's holding a bucket of water. You unmanifest it, walk down the street and then manifest it again 1 minute later. Ask your GM what the state of the Eidolon is and where is the bucket? There are pluses and minuses each way so any consistent answer is OK, but Paizo hasn’t been clear.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Anyway feedback welcome.
I really like the Summoner, but it's not a class I'd advise to a beginner. So my feedback may lean towards more complex things.
I think you should advertize more the skill advantage of the Summoner. The fact that you have 2 stat array but also the advantage of having 4 actions a round. For example, you put Athletics as third skill for your Dragon Eidolon when your build would greatly benefit from Athletics as first skill. Same for the Plant Eidolon.
The Fey on the other hand would gladly get extra Charisma for the double Demoralize combo.
I'd also put a Bard Summoner. The extra action you have + the natural Charisma of the Summoner + the Eidolon benefiting from your compositions makes the Bard Summoner one of the strongest builds you can make. And it's quite a straightforward one for a beginner.
Cursory read:
Like w/ Rogue, you're listing PCs with only 3 stats above 10, yet not saying which Ancestry was used to get them. Since there's a stage when 4 +2 bonuses are passed out, to get only 3 above 10 means there had to be an initial deficit (or optional penalty, but that'd lower the stats total).
The first level feat that Summoners get has to be an Evolution feat, so Extend Boost does not qualify.
Big dislike for the 10 Wis, and it's even on the Medic!
Plus it'd be hard for Divine or Primal casters to Extend Boost well (unless taking that to get the Focus Point.)
Not sure how Summoner/Beastmaster qualifies as basic, or running two casters for that matter. Given the completeness, none of these seem particularly basic, so maybe we have different definitions for it?
Might want to mark the Uncommon spells, and nix the Rare one, Antimagic Field.
Haunting Hymn is useful IMO for Divine casters, if only vs. swarms/troops and others with Weakness to AoEs (or Sonic, which also addresses some Regeneration).
Dislike Bless, as it would go on the Summoner who shouldn't be that close to combat IMO.
Rules: pretty sure we know the bucket drops, but yeah, ongoing effects is a major issue IMO (perhaps add link to extensive thread on that?).
Cursory read:
Like w/ Rogue, you're listing PCs with only 3 stats above 10, yet not saying which Ancestry was used to get them. Since there's a stage when 4 +2 bonuses are passed out, to get only 3 above 10 means there had to be an initial deficit (or optional penalty, but that'd lower the stats total).
Fair enough I really want more Con, I'll just spread it back across.
The first level feat that Summoners get has to be an Evolution feat, so Extend Boost does not qualify.
Thank you
Big dislike for the 10 Wis, and it's even on the Medic!
Plus it'd be hard for Divine or Primal casters to Extend Boost well (unless taking that to get the Focus Point.)
I really don't care that much for wisdom effect on medic, happy to wait the extra level and let proficiency do its thing. But I've fixed it up anyway.
Not sure how Summoner/Beastmaster qualifies as basic, or running two casters for that matter. Given the completeness, none of these seem particularly basic, so maybe we have different definitions for it?
Simple to build. Beastmaster is pretty obvious and most people understand it. I've already got a warning the class is not for new people.
Might want to mark the Uncommon spells, and nix the Rare one, Antimagic Field.
I really don't care about rarity, but thats another discussion.
Haunting Hymn is useful IMO for Divine casters, if only vs. swarms/troops and others with Weakness to AoEs (or Sonic, which also addresses some Regeneration).
I was just trying to make that particularDivine caster passive (yeah I know there are some others there) I do a more agressive spell list for a Divine caster when I do Sorcerer.
Thanks.
Anyway feedback welcome.I really like the Summoner, but it's not a class I'd advise to a beginner. So my feedback may lean towards more complex things.
I think you should advertize more the skill advantage of the Summoner. The fact that you have 2 stat array but also the advantage of having 4 actions a round. For example, you put Athletics as third skill for your Dragon Eidolon when your build would greatly benefit from Athletics as first skill. Same for the Plant Eidolon.
The Fey on the other hand would gladly get extra Charisma for the double Demoralize combo.I'd also put a Bard Summoner. The extra action you have + the natural Charisma of the Summoner + the Eidolon benefiting from your compositions makes the Bard Summoner one of the strongest builds you can make. And it's quite a straightforward one for a beginner.
I'll add some more comments in my blurb on those issues.
Forest Singer
A singer who has a lot of pets and they enjoy wonderful music together. Once you have a few more allies, improving their attack rolls is very effective.
Caster Arcane: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Beast Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon, Heavy Crossbow for you to use when all your pets are out, reload between encounters. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Advanced Weaponry for grapple then Extend Boost if possible, Level 2: Beastmaster Dedication for a Hawk flying is important to just getting into combat with this many pets, Level 4: Mature Beastmaster Companion, Level 6: Bard Dedication, Level 8: Incredible Beastmaster's Companion, Level 10: Inspirational Performance later Protective Bond, Level 14: Specialized Beastmaster Companion
Skills: Intimidation, Deception primarily for you, Athletics mostly for your pet,
For spell suggestions see the Magic Fairy entry. But this build will always have Heal, Summon Animal or other summon spells. The few extra bard cantrips are nice too. If you can get Multitalented for Bard Dedication then you can squeeze in Master Summoner as well
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Tandem Strike doesn't work with a bow as the enemy needs to be in both your and your eidolon's reach. Generally speaking, nobody should ever consider a tandem strike build under normal circumstances.
Half orc
8/16/16/8/14/14
1) energy heart, orc ferocity
2) druid dedication
3) toughness
4) wild shape
5) general training -> canny acumen
6) tandem strike
7) ancestral paragon -> natural ambition -> dual studies
8) eidolon opportunity
9) undying ferocity
10) hulking size
Pretty braindead to play.
Turn 1: transform and have your eidolon move in and attack.
Turn 2: move in yourself and tandem strike
Careful, your build is not valid, you need a third Beastmaster feat before taking Bard Dedication. And I'll take Inspire Heroics at level 16, as you can maintain it quite well and get a few extra Focus Point at level 12 and 18. Anyway, do as you want, but I'd lean more toward Bard in this build and not take a second archetype that is super costly in terms of feats.
Also, you haven't taken Energy Heart/Dual Energy Heart in any of your builds. Being able to choose between Fire/Cold and Physical Damage is super interesting. You go through all resistances and exploit a lot of weaknesses (roughly, you exploit a weakness or go through a resistance against nearly 20% of enemies, so it's not a negligeable damage boost). It also allows you to take better runes than other martials (martials take Fire/Cold runes in priority as exploiting weaknesses gives way more extra damage than the d6 you lose against resistant creatures, with these feats you can take Acid/Electricity runes that are never resisted so you get your full damage always). It's in my opinion one of the great assets of the Eidolon and is a staple in my Summoner builds.
Tandem Strike doesn't work with a bow as the enemy needs to be in both your and your eidolon's reach. Generally speaking, nobody should ever consider a tandem strike build under normal circumstances.
** spoiler omitted **
There's an issue with your build, you have 8 Str, so you don't benefit from the +2 status bonus of Wild Shape. As a side note, Wild Shape is not much useful, you can just grab the Battle Form spells and you can do it without a single feat investment (even if it takes you most of your spells per day, but if you Wild Shape you can't use them anyway). I also agree that it's not a strong build at all.
Bloodletting claws doesn't work on a Treant without GM assist. All of their default weapons are bludgeoning. Also, if you want to be able to grapple, you need to actually add grapple to one of your weapons... and going strength/athletics as a build gets a lot weaker if you don't have any grapple-capable limbs. You'll also want diminutive size in there so that you aren't in trouble if you find yourself in a situation where there isn't space to fit your towering eidolon.
I mean, I also thing that you're missing out by not including things like Constricting Hold and Grasping Limbs, but that's just me really liking grapple. The other stuff is actually "doesn't really function right" stuff.
So a plant eidolon could get a lash attack which deals slashing or piercing damage with no issue. Wines or thorned wines, for example.
I mean, I am pretty sure any summoner will probalby create its own attacks ( I wouldn't take into account the "discuss with a dm" when it comes down to define your own eidolon in terms of either aesthetic and damage type ).
Yep, and by default I will normally choose to take bludgeoning, unless the plan is to get Bloodletting claws, as it is cleay superior damage resistance wise.
Careful, your build is not valid, you need a third Beastmaster feat before taking Bard Dedication. And I'll take Inspire Heroics at level 16, as you can maintain it quite well and get a few extra Focus Point at level 12 and 18. Anyway, do as you want, but I'd lean more toward Bard in this build and not take a second archetype that is super costly in terms of feats.
Ok, I'll fix that clearly that build will have to go multitalented.
Also, you haven't taken Energy Heart/Dual Energy Heart in any of your builds. Being able to choose between Fire/Cold and Physical Damage is super interesting. You go through all resistances and exploit a lot of weaknesses (roughly, you exploit a weakness or go through a resistance against nearly 20% of enemies, so it's not a negligeable damage boost). It also allows you to take better runes than other martials (martials take Fire/Cold runes in priority as exploiting weaknesses gives way more extra damage than the d6 you lose against resistant creatures, with these feats you can take Acid/Electricity runes that are never resisted so you get your full damage always). It's in my opinion one of the great assets of the Eidolon and is a staple in my Summoner builds.
Yes, I've never really liked it. My problem is that in PF2 the monsters are so varied its just not consistently usable. Plus typically the weakness is only 5 points. Runes on the handwraps are enough. I'd only consider it in the Golem where I could retune it to be relevant.
There are quite a few Summoner feats I just don't take as they just don't seem that useful, or they cover things that are only occasional useful but I can easily take with Evolution Surge if I want them.Tandem Strike doesn't work with a bow as the enemy needs to be in both your and your eidolon's reach. Generally speaking, nobody should ever consider a tandem strike build under normal circumstances.
There is not enough in Tandem Strike for me to want it normally. Having to do a melee build when I can just cast a cantrip instead is enough. As it is I barely bother with a ranged weapon on my Summoners. Because the Eidolon can always make a strike, we only have one reaction, and the Charisma based skill actions are so useful. I just don't see the point of screwing over my attribute scores. Thematically it could work. But I want the Summoner feats. I mean you are right it is screaming out for a Champion crossover I'll do one of those.
There's an issue with your build, you have 8 Str, so you don't benefit from the +2 status bonus of Wild Shape. As a side note, Wild Shape is not much useful, you can just grab the Battle Form spells and you can do it without a single feat investment (even if it takes you most of your spells per day, but if you Wild Shape you can't use them anyway). I also agree that it's not a strong build at all.
No. The point of a battle form spell on a caster is as an option. You don't have to do a maximal WildShape build it is just there as a plan B for a level. Plus most of the time even with maximal Strength it doesn't make a difference, and even dedicated specialist wildshapers get the +2 status bonus only half the time - it really only works well for those multiclass martial wildshapers. Don't forget we are a spontaneus caster so the slot is never wasted, we can always just use it for a big Heal or another spell. The more optimal response to having it on your list would be to take Tandem Strike. In fact along with the Champion multiclass, a wild shaper is probably a good spot for that feat.
Anyway I'm going to rethink my builds further. Thank you all for the feedback so far.
Re: Demon Lord Build
A Ready uses your Reaction, so you can't Ready a Knockdown for after an AoO unless you have Combat Reflexes (which isn't a Summoner option).
Still solid to attempt as much of that as possible each round, though that Sustain will cut into how much spellcasting the Summoner itself gets in (assuming a dynamic battle).
Also Chaotic Evil... :/
Tandem Strike
** spoiler omitted **
I don't think the concept is that bad. I'd do it differently though. The real problem is there are a stack of rules that we are going to disagree on regarding wildshapes, because those rules are really aweful.
Re: Demon Lord Build
Also Chaotic Evil... :/
You are allowed to be in alignment conflict with your eidolon.
which might be fun roleplaying.
Yes, I've never really liked it. My problem is that in PF2 the monsters are so varied its just not consistently usable. Plus typically the weakness is only 5 points. Runes on the handwraps are enough. I'd only consider it in the Golem where I could retune it to be relevant.Also, you haven't taken Energy Heart/Dual Energy Heart in any of your builds. Being able to choose between Fire/Cold and Physical Damage is super interesting. You go through all resistances and exploit a lot of weaknesses (roughly, you exploit a weakness or go through a resistance against nearly 20% of enemies, so it's not a negligeable damage boost). It also allows you to take better runes than other martials (martials take Fire/Cold runes in priority as exploiting weaknesses gives way more extra damage than the d6 you lose against resistant creatures, with these feats you can take Acid/Electricity runes that are never resisted so you get your full damage always). It's in my opinion one of the great assets of the Eidolon and is a staple in my Summoner builds.
The fact that it's inconsistent but really strong when it happens is actually an asset. The Summoner, like the Alchemist, is an opportunist. You have a truck load of options, so it's better to have circumstancial options with strong effects than constant options with low effects. As such you choose which option to use depending on the situation and ignore those that are not functionning.
Anyway, I like Energy Heart, but it's not a must have at all. It was just a suggestion.
Demon Lord
On this one, I might suggest not trying to work the evolutions quite so hard. The core combo, based around landing Vision of Sins on a BBEG is pretty shiny, but the rest of the build isnt' really leanign into that. You're already looking for ways to make yourself better at Bon Mot, so you should also be looking for ways to force your opponent to make will saves.
There's also... summon spells. Vision of Sins is a great way to drop hurt on the one big scary fight in a day. Summon spells are a great way to get some spell slot efficiency for handling lesser fights - soak up a bunch of damage and do some good.
So, yeah - I wouldn't normally say this, but with this build, I'd suggest dropping a bunch of the combat evos, and going with more caster-oriented feats. Possibly go for the "flying mount by 14" build, if that entertains you.
There's an issue with your build, you have 8 Str, so you don't benefit from the +2 status bonus of Wild Shape. As a side note, Wild Shape is not much useful, you can just grab the Battle Form spells and you can do it without a single feat investment (even if it takes you most of your spells per day, but if you Wild Shape you can't use them anyway). I also agree that it's not a strong build at all.
You're right. I forgot that it's strictly str based for the bonus. In that case, the stat line would probably be something like 16/14/14/8/14/10. Yes, you can use battle form spells, but you don't really want to use a battle form that isn't top level for damage and EHP reasons so that leaves you with 2 casts a day. But hey, there's no real way to make this sort of strategy good anyway so you may as well play it to the hilt.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One idea I've heard is to get a Champion Dedication on a Summoner with a Dedication Phantom so that you can get Retributive Strike. That way, no matter which of you gets attacked, you or your Phantom will be able to strike out at that enemy.
How does one use Ostentatious Arrival on your Eidolon? Because it has to arrive adjacent to you and its pretty hard to get immunity.
The only way I can see is if you take a size Tiny summoner and have your Eidolon arrive on top of you. But I'm not sure that all GMs will allow that.
How does one use Ostentatious Arrival on your Eidolon? Because it has to arrive adjacent to you and its pretty hard to get immunity.
The only way I can see is if you take a size Tiny summoner and have your Eidolon arrive on top of you. But I'm not sure that all GMs will allow that.
How? Poorly...
Whether it lands next to you or in your square you still get hurt, which can be resisted which implies forewarning if via spell which suggests you should have had your Eidelon summoned already. Otherwise you're gambling there are enough enemies closing on you before your turn to warrant the feat and action choice, and that you won't crit fail.
Meld Into Eidelon bypasses some of that, but I find it a poor choice because you'd need to be Hasted to be able to position the arrival well. Eidelon's Wrath outdoes it too much.
Of course, if you're summoning a lot of creatures already (an unlikely "if"), it's short-range free explosions, which is darn cool plus you can key it into most Weaknesses too so even lower slots do well.
Why would a creature in the same space be effected unless you wanted? Emmantion starts at the edge of your space.
An emanation issues forth from each side of your space, extending out to a specified number of feet in all directions. For instance, the bless spell's emanation radiates 5 or more feet outward from the caster. Because the sides of a creature's space are the starting point for the emanation, an emanation from a Large or larger creature affects a greater overall area than that of a Medium or smaller creature. Unless the text states otherwise, the creature creating an emanation effect chooses whether the creature at its center is affected
That should work.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Why would a creature in the same space be effected unless you wanted? Emmantion starts at the edge of your space.
An emanation issues forth from each side of your space, extending out to a specified number of feet in all directions. For instance, the bless spell's emanation radiates 5 or more feet outward from the caster. Because the sides of a creature's space are the starting point for the emanation, an emanation from a Large or larger creature affects a greater overall area than that of a Medium or smaller creature. Unless the text states otherwise, the creature creating an emanation effect chooses whether the creature at its center is affected
That should work.
Per strict RAW it works, because the text doesn't consider that there could be a second creature in your space. But I can clearly see a GM objecting as the concept of Emanations is that they hit everything around the caster, including or excluding the caster.
Anyway, Ostentatious Arrival is pretty much used for summons, not for your Eidolon (even if you have the choice, it's always better to have the choice).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My understanding is that even if Ostentatious Arrival was party-friendly, it would still be generally better to have your eidolon out by default. I'll agree that it's pretty much just for summoning spells.
Might actually be worth the archetype (especially under free archetype) if you were building a summoning specialist of another class.
...and now I'm wondering if there are any three-action summoning focus spells to be found anywhere. I wouldn't expect so, but it's not entirely implausible.
edit: there are not. There are two focus spells (one druid, one wizard) that augment your summons in various ways, but none that does the summoning itself.
My understanding is that even if Ostentatious Arrival was party-friendly, it would still be generally better to have your eidolon out by default. I'll agree that it's pretty much just for summoning spells.
Might actually be worth the archetype (especially under free archetype) if you were building a summoning specialist of another class.
...and now I'm wondering if there are any three-action summoning focus spells to be found anywhere. I wouldn't expect so, but it's not entirely implausible.
edit: there are not. There are two focus spells (one druid, one wizard) that augment your summons in various ways, but none that does the summoning itself.
That's actually quite a good idea. It costs 3 feats including a level 12 one (but you can go for Multitalented at level 9, so it cost you only your level 10 and 12 class feats) and you get a short range mini-Fireball of the damage type you want and the size you want (as you can change the size of the summoned creature to alter the area). That's actually quite good, even if it won't make Summoning strong it actually makes it more viable.
That's actually quite a good idea. It costs 3 feats including a level 12 one (but you can go for Multitalented at level 9, so it cost you only your level 10 and 12 class feats) and you get a short range mini-Fireball of the damage type you want and the size you want (as you can change the size of the summoned creature to alter the area). That's actually quite good, even if it won't make Summoning strong it actually makes it more viable.My understanding is that even if Ostentatious Arrival was party-friendly, it would still be generally better to have your eidolon out by default. I'll agree that it's pretty much just for summoning spells.
Might actually be worth the archetype (especially under free archetype) if you were building a summoning specialist of another class.
...and now I'm wondering if there are any three-action summoning focus spells to be found anywhere. I wouldn't expect so, but it's not entirely implausible.
edit: there are not. There are two focus spells (one druid, one wizard) that augment your summons in various ways, but none that does the summoning itself.
To my understanding, summoning is quite viable... as an efficient way to spend spell slots on encounters that might eat resources but aren't all that threatening by themselves. It's the boss fights that they tend to seriously collapse and die on. Still, yes, adding a baby fireball on does make them a notably better deal.
As far as what to grab for your mandatory lvl 1 or lvl 2 summoner feat... well, Magical Understudy effectively gives you two more utility cantrips of whichever kind you like, and those can be useful. Otherwise, I might suggest Meld into Eidolon. It's a kind fo special case-thing, but I could absolutely imagine situations where a relatively squishy wizard might prefer to transform into their eidolon and also explode without having to spend any spell slots. It's not like you had Act Together to begin with, after all.
Ironically, by a precise reading of the rules, if you archetype into summoner, and take Steed Form, and mount your eidolon, your steed form eidolon cannot move.
Why would a creature in the same space be effected unless you wanted? Emmantion starts at the edge of your space.
An emanation issues forth from each side of your space, extending out to a specified number of feet in all directions. For instance, the bless spell's emanation radiates 5 or more feet outward from the caster. Because the sides of a creature's space are the starting point for the emanation, an emanation from a Large or larger creature affects a greater overall area than that of a Medium or smaller creature. Unless the text states otherwise, the creature creating an emanation effect chooses whether the creature at its center is affected
That should work.Per strict RAW it works, because the text doesn't consider that there could be a second creature in your space. But I can clearly see a GM objecting as the concept of Emanations is that they hit everything around the caster, including or excluding the caster.
Anyway, Ostentatious Arrival is pretty much used for summons, not for your Eidolon (even if you have the choice, it's always better to have the choice).
I don't disagree that it happens, and I'm perfectly happy that you made this point.
This sort of GM ruling is the one I hate most. As a player I've found a RAW way that something works. Its reasonable its far from overpowered. But the GM has a line of thinking in his head which says otherwise and shuts it down. IMHO it is very poor GMing, purely designed to assert control and reflects a lack of desire to allow players to think or improvise. I don't want to be in such games. RPGs are a cooperative venture.
Ironically, by a precise reading of the rules, if you archetype into summoner, and take Steed Form, and mount your eidolon, your steed form eidolon cannot move.
These are the sorts of things that GMs should be fixing. Anyway the rules around Steed Form are excessive anyway. The best thing to do is remove the Tandom trait, and say moves can't be used in a Tandom action while mounted.
Anyway. Here is where I ended up after fixing up the rules problems and adding some more concepts. The builds are far more complex than the previous ones.
Summoner
A fun pet class that fits a lot of concepts, the Summoner is not for those new to the game. It has some unique rules, a shared 4 actions between you and your pet Eidolon, you also share hit points, a reaction and a multiple attack penalty. You’ll have to go through it yourself but you do need to understand Act Together and Tandem actions.
The main feature of the class is build a pet. Plus the magic of the Summoner which can be of any type. The Summoner and the Eidolon have different ability scores so you have a lot of options for skills. You can retry most skills just between the two of you, and you can Aid each other. Dual Studies allows you to take different skills and a skill feat on your Eidolon. Also don't forget that with your Link Spell Evolution Surge that there is a lot you can just give your Eidolon on the fly.
There is a lot of efficiency built into the class with the Summoner casting a spell and the Eidolon attacking. One of the more obvious things to do is just beef up the amount of magic that is available by doubling down on the extra in class spell casting that is available via the Fey Eidolon or adding an explicit spell casting multiclass as I did with the Forest Singer.
In order to pair up to physically fight together you need to have Tandem Strike which doesn’t come onboard till level 6. I did this fairly well with Phantom Knight build as I was able to bring in Champion to fix the armour problem at the same time. It is possible to do it with your limited magic, say Dragon Form, but you still want Tandem Strike when you do.
So let’s look at some options.
Dragon Lord
It’s a well balanced package. The dragon has a breath weapon that doubles as a moderate ranged attack if you take the line option. Its level 7 Draconic Frenzy gives it some spice in melee. Very flavourful and straight forward.
Caster Arcane: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Dragon Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon, Sling for you to use when the dragon breathes fire. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Advanced Weaponry for grapple, Glider Form Level 4: Lifelink Surge it’s great healing for you, later try and get Bloodletting Claws too, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 8: Hulking Size, Level 10:Weighty Impact, Level 12: Grasping Limbs, Level 14: Airborne Form
Skills: Intimidation, Deception primarily for you, Athletics mostly for your pet,
Some spell suggestions, but unlike a wizard you don’t get to keep them all. I recommend trying to select only those that can turn an encounter by themselves. Most of your casting will be the cantrips.
Cantrips : Electric Arc, Ray of Frost, Telekinetic Projectile , Protect Companion
1st: Befuddle get a Ring of Wizardry, Magic Fang
2nd: Flaming Sphere, Illusory Creature, Dispel Magic
3rd: Haste, Vampiric Touch, Fear
4th: Resilient Sphere, Suggestion
5th: Wall of Stone, Glimmer of Charm, Pillars of Sand, Shadow Siphon
6th: Chain Lightning, Slow, Dragon Form, Wall of Force
7th: Contingency, Haste, True Target, Frigid Flurry
8th: Disappearance, Horrid Wilting, Maze, Undermine Reality
9th: Foresight, Implosion, Weird,
The Golem
Though I like the idea of it being a huge Toy soldier while the summoner is a Poppet. What makes this eidolon interesting is that you can reconfigure it in a day, and it's the toughest Eidolon because of its extra first level saving throw bonuses to a big range of nasty effects
Caster Arcane: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Construct Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Advanced Weaponry for grapple then Extend Boost, Level 2: Reinforce Eidolon, Level 4: Lifelink Surge it’s great healing for you, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 7: Bloodletting Claws or Energy Heart, Level 8: Hulking Size, Level 10:Protective Bond, Weighty Impact
Skills: Intimidation, Deception, Crafting for you, Athletics for your pet,
For spell suggestions see previous.
Magic Fairy
The Fey Eidolon is not built to do as much damage in melee but to cast spells. Unfortunately you can’t both attack with a cantrip from range. However there are still some unique things you can do, for example this build can have two Flaming Spheres going at the same time. Plus all those spells like Blazing Dive and Draw the Lightning can be used quite well by your Eidolon. The downside being you just don’t actually have that much magic to use. It does have a regular ranged attack as required and is still Ok in melee.
Caster Primal: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Fey Eidolon: Str 14, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 12; +1 AC, with the 1d6 damage (deadly d8 and finesse) primary attack. That's right you don’t actually need Charisma for your spell DC.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon, Sling as you want to have the option of a ranged attack. The General Feat Adopted Ancestry + backstory you enjoy their culture + Elven Weapon Familiarity route to get a bow proficiency is always an action efficient option. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Glider Form - works very well with jump, Extend Boost, Level 2:Ranged Combatant, Level 4: Lifelink Surge it’s great healing for you, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 8: Eidolon's Wrath Level 10: Protective Bond, Level 12: Link Focus Level 14: Airborne Form
Skills: Intimidation, Deception, Stealth for both of you
Some primal spell suggestions. Most of your casting will be the cantrips.
Cantrips : Electric Arc, Ray of Frost, Protect Companion
1st: Magic Fang, Heal in fact always keep one available
2nd: Flaming Sphere, Thundering Dominance, Longstrider, Restoration, Dispel Magic, Illusory Creature
3rd: Envenom Companion, Crashing Wave, Wall of Thorns, Fear
4th: Invisibility Curtain, Air Walk, Invisibility
5th: Chameleon Coat, Pillars of Sand, Wall of Stone
6th: Chain Lightning, Nature’s Reprisal
7th: Cosmic Form, Eclipse Burst,
8th: Monstrosity Form, Polar Ray, Wind Walk
9th: Implosion, Upheaval
For the Eidolon
Cantrips: Light, Guidance
1st: Magic Fang,
2nd: Flaming Sphere, Animal Form, Longstrider, Restoration
3rd: Blazing Dive, Fear
4th: Stoneskin, Draw the Lightning, Invisibility
5th: Chameleon Coat, Pillars of Sand, Wall of Stone
6th: Chain Lightning, Dragon Form, Nature’s Reprisal
7th: Control Sand, Eclipse Burst,
Fey Blaster
The Fey Eidolon starts with the extra magic. Let's see how much magic we can add. If we go full on with a multiclass into the same tradition of Sorcerer we can pick up a fair bit more magic. There is no efficiency problem as it's all the same tradition. It looks very much like a Sorcerer with two spells per level plus an effective melee Eidolon. You can do a similar thing as a Druid and get access to some good focus spells but the 14 Wisdom needed means you need to take voluntary flaw.
Caster Primal: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Fey Eidolon: Str 14, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 12; +1 AC, with the 1d6 damage (deadly d8 and finesse) primary attack. That's right you don’t actually need Charisma for your spell DC.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon, Sling as you want to have the option of a ranged attack. A wand of Summoner's Precaution, a Staff of Fire or a Staff of Illusion
Class Feats: Level 1:Glider Form, Level 2:Sorcerer Dedication for any primal, Level 4: Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 8: Bloodline Breadth, Level 10: Basic Blood Potency for Dangerous Sorcery Level 12: Expert Sorcerer Spellcasting, Level 18: Master Sorcerer Spellcasting,
Skills: Intimidation, Deception, Stealth for both of you
Some primal spell suggestions.
Cantrips : Electric Arc, Ray of Frost, Guidance, Protect Companion
1st: Magic Fang, Heal in fact always keep one available
2nd: Flaming Sphere, Thundering Dominance, Longstrider, Restoration, Dispel Magic
3rd: Envenom Companion, Fear, Fireball always keep this as well.
4th: Invisibility Curtain, Air Walk, Invisibility
5th: Chameleon Coat, Pillars of Sand, Wall of Stone
6th: Chain Lightning, Nature’s Reprisal
7th: Cosmic Form, Eclipse Burst,
8th: Monstrosity Form, Polar Ray, Wind Walk
9th: Implosion, Upheaval
Treant
The Treant is a huge Plant Eidolon that stands its ground and controls an area.
Caster Primal: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Plant Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack with slashing damage.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Advanced Weaponry for grapple then Extend Boost, Level 2: Reinforce Eidolon, Level 4: Bloodletting Claws, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 8: Hulking Size, Level 10:Protective Bond or Weighty Impact Level 12: Towering Size, Level 14: Resilient Shell, Level 16: Trample
Skills: Intimidation, Deception for you, Athletics for your pet,
For spell suggestions see previous minus the illusions you don’t get.
Leader of the Pack
A summoner who has a lot of pets and summons more.
Caster Arcane: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Beast Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon, Heavy Crossbow for you to use when all your pets are out, reload between encounters. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Advanced Weaponry for grapple then Extend Boost, Level 2: Beastmaster Dedication for a Hawk flying is important to just getting into combat with this many pets, Level 4: Mature Beastmaster Companion, Level 6: Master Summoner Level 8: Incredible Beastmaster's Companion, Level 10: Protective Bond, Weighty Impact, Level 14: Specialized Beastmaster Companion
Skills: Intimidation, Deception primarily for you, Athletics mostly for your pet,
For spell suggestions see the Magic Fairy entry. But this build will always have Heal, Summon Animal or other summon spells.
Forest Singer
A singer who has a lot of pets and they enjoy wonderful music together. Once you have a few more allies, improving their attack rolls is very effective.
Caster Arcane: Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Beast Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Studded Leather for a few levels if you can get Armor Proficiency, later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon, Heavy Crossbow for you to use when all your pets are out, reload between encounters. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Advanced Weaponry for grapple then Extend Boost if possible, Level 2: Bard Dedication, Level 4: Basic Bard Spellcasting, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 8: Inspirational Performance, Occult Breadth, Level 12: Expert Bard Spellcasting
Skills: Intimidation, Deception primarily for you, Athletics mostly for your pet,
For spell suggestions see the other builds here. But this build will always have Heal, Summon Animal or other summon spells. It has a lot of additional Bard magic to really reinforce this summoner as a spell caster. A Sorcerer with another magic tradition would work just as well but the bard’s cantrip songs are very nice. Note that there is a minor difference in your spell casting proficiency, but it's easy to find good spells that are less dependent on your spell DC.
Cantrips : Shield, Light, Guidance
1st: Soothe, Summon Fey, Magic Missile
2nd: Illusory Creature,
3rd: Circle of Protection, Haste
4th: Veil
5th: Synesthesia
Phantom Knight
The phantom likes to stay close to his rider to protect him. This summoner likes to melee as well but with a reach weapon. It doesn’t really start to be effective till level 6
Caster Occult: Str 16 Dex 10 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Devotion Phantom Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Full Plate, LongSpear, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon. A wand of Summoner's Precaution
Class Feats: Level 1:Advanced Weaponry for grapple then Extend Boost, Level 2: Champion Dedication, Level 4: Tandem Movement, Level 6: Tandem Strike, Champion's Reaction Level 10:Protective Bond then Weighty Impact Level 14: Diverse Armor Expert,
Skills: Intimidation, Deception, for you, Athletics for your pet,
For spell suggestions try these:
Cantrips: Shield, Telekinetic Projectile, Detect Magic, Light, Guidance
1st: Soothe, Summon Fey,
2nd: Spiritual Weapon, Illusory Creature,
3rd: Heroism, Vampiric Touch, Fear
4th: Phantasmal Killer, Resilient Sphere
5th: Glimmer of Charm, Synesthesia
6th: Scintillating Safeguard, Vampiric Exsanguination
7th: Reverse Gravity, True Target
8th: Maze, Undermine Reality
9th: Foresight, Wail of the Banshee
The Untouchable
A passive holy man and his protector. He tries to avoid combat, looks for the diplomatic solution and does not carry a weapon. He always rushes to help the injured. His servant however is very protective. His Eidolon will often cast Invisibility on him so he is not affected by the fight.
Caster Divine: Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Psychopomp Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip primary attack.
Basic equipment: Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon. A wand of Summoner's Precaution and Sanctuary, a Staff of Healing
Class Feats: Level 1: Advanced Weaponry for grapple, Level 2: Medic Dedication Level 4: Doctor’s Visitation, Level 6: Eidolon's Opportunity, Eidolon's Wrath, Level 10:Protective Bond then Weighty Impact Level 14: Resilient Shell,
Skills: Medicine, Diplomacy and Bon Mot and Battle Medicine for you, Athletics for your pet, if you can find room for Skilled Partner your Eidolon can also heal..
For spell suggestions try these, maybe some of them aren’t so passive but I’ll let you sort that out.
Cantrips : Protect Companion, Forbidding Ward, Detect Magic, Light, Guidance
1st: Heal, Sanctuary
2nd: Faerie Fire, Spiritual Weapon,
3rd: Circle of Protection, Heroism, Fear
4th: Freedom of Movement, Globe of Invulnerability, Spiritual Anamnesis
5th: Shadow Blast, Wall of Flesh
6th: Repulsion, True Seeing,
7th: Eclipse Burst, Sunburst
8th: Antimagic Field, Divine Aura
9th: Foresight,
Meld Demon Summoner
This summoner becomes the eidolon and takes themselves off the board. They have the advantage of 4 actions all to themselves, but lose the ability for the Summoner to cast spells including evolution surge while in combat or do additional skill checks. Spells cast on the Summoner should stay on the Melded form. On the plus side the Summoner can arrange his ability scores to be optimal in Eidolon form. Because we take Magical Understudy, the Eidolon can cast a saving throw based cantrip every turn that won't cause a Multiple Attack Penalty problem. There is also the Eidolons Wrath option and Visions of Sin at level 7. Remember melding is just an option, you can choose not to do it each time.
This build works with other Eidolons, in particular Dragon. Fey has better Charisma but they will be using a weaker primary attack.
Caster Arcane: Str 10 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Eidolon Demon Eidolon: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 12; +2 AC, with the 1d8 damage trip slashing primary attack.
Basic equipment: Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows to help the Eidolon. Yes the Summoners AC will be poor for a long time.
Class Feats: Level 1:Glider Form, and Meld into Eidolon via Natural Ambition, Level 2: Magical Understudy Level 4: Bloodletting Claws, Level 6: Eidolon's Wrath later Eidolon's Opportunity, Level 8: Magical Adept, Level 10:Weighty Impact, Level 14: Airborne Form, Level 16: Effortless Concentration Level 18:Magical Master,
Skills: Athletics and Stealth, you might want Diplomacy or Medicine for their out of combat uses.
Some spell suggestions, for the Summoner these are mostly things that you can cast before combat and sustain or out of combat utilities. For the Eidolon most of your casting will be the cantrips that don’t have attack rolls, but you still have a couple of other spells.
Cantrips: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Read Aura
1st: Animate Dead or Summon Lesser Servitor
2nd: See Invisibility, Dispel Magic
3rd: Rouse Skeletons, Heroism
4th: Globe of Invulnerability
5th: Summon Celestial
6th: True Seeing
7th: Regenerate
8th:
9th: Overwhelming Presence
For the Eidolon
Cantrips: Daze yes your Charisma is low, or Chill Touch, option for Shield
1st: Bless
2nd: Darkness
3rd: Vampiric Touch
Rules problem: Your Eidolon has got longstrider active on it, it’s stupefied, suffering ongoing damage, and it's holding a bucket of water. You unmanifest it, walk down the street and then manifest it again 1 minute later. Ask your GM what the state of the Eidolon is and where is the bucket? There are pluses and minuses each way so any consistent answer is OK, but Paizo hasn’t been clear. I recommend all effects are still there but allow for reasonable passage of time and actions so some ongoing effects will have ended. Your hitpoints don’t change of course. I allow Eidolons to use mundane items, but only Eidolon specific items go with them when they disappear.
Full list here
If you allow me, I'd make a suggestion to replace the Forest Singer (both because I think you can do better with this build and also because it uses a Anger Phantom Eidolon and you haven't a build for this one).
Heavy Metal
Anger Phantom Eidolon
Class Feats: Level 2: Bard Dedication, Level 4: Basic Bard Spellcasting, Level 6: Lingering Composition, Level 8: Inspirational Performance, Level 10: Occult Breadth, Level 12: Expert Bard Spellcasting, Level 14: Link Focus, Level 16: Inspire Heroics, Level 18: Master Bard Spellcasting or Link Wellspring
I've kept your heavy spellcasting approach, even if it's not a necessity for the build to work, I'd have put Energy Heart, personally, but that's just my preference.
The advantage of the Anger Phantom is that by level 7 it can rage and as such you no more need to Boost Eidolon. So you can use your Focus Point on Lingering Performance. At level 16, you can start Inspiring Heroics multiple times per fight and the bonus becomes way more interesting. I'd go for the Link Wellspring at level 18 personally, but Master Spellcasting is nice, too.
So, it's more of a high level build, better if you can start around level 8. But I think it can be very interesting at high level. And between Inspire Heroics and its rage ability, your Eidolon is quite a good martial, actually competing with proper martials (even if its AC suck, so you need to be cautious when raging).
Where it says 4 I mean 3 in meld summoner.
|
How do you sustain two spells as a Summoner? When referencing the flaming sphere example are stating at level 7+ are you just talking about using Magical Adept and casting a lower level version?
Couldn't any Eidolon just pick up that feat though?
Is there any way for the Eidolon to sustain a Summoner's spells?
That seems really cool and all but unless I am mistaken the Eidolon only has two spells per day most the game.
Do you have any other benefits of the Fey Summoner? I have a player in my campaign with a Fey Eidolon and seems a little underwhelming. Level 5 currently. It seems like at level 9+ (expert spellcasting) it will be much better but that is a lot of time spent playing.
The other Eidolons really feel like they bring very unique things to the table from level 1-20. Fey Eidolon feels really slow to me before it starts feeling like a decent secondary caster. Beast Charge, Dragon Breath and Tendril Strike on the other hand seem great from level 1.
How do you sustain two spells as a Summoner? When referencing the flaming sphere example are stating at level 7+ are you just talking about using Magical Adept and casting a lower level version?
Couldn't any Eidolon just pick up that feat though?
Is there any way for the Eidolon to sustain a Summoner's spells?
That seems really cool and all but unless I am mistaken the Eidolon only has two spells per day most the game.
Do you have any other benefits of the Fey Summoner? I have a player in my campaign with a Fey Eidolon and seems a little underwhelming. Level 5 currently. It seems like at level 9+ (expert spellcasting) it will be much better but that is a lot of time spent playing.
The other Eidolons really feel like they bring very unique things to the table from level 1-20. Fey Eidolon feels really slow to me before it starts feeling like a decent secondary caster. Beast Charge, Dragon Breath and Tendril Strike on the other hand seem great from level 1.
Yes, Yes, No, Correct
This is not a ful guide, but SUmmoners as so complex its already bloated. Really the best thing are the spells which you can only cast on yourself like Blazing Dive.Cool
Fun little surprise benefit: summoners have more flexibility than any other class to use found magical weapons. That's really nice when you find a weapon upgrade mid- delve. Y'all ever find a magical greatsword when everyone in the party uses dex build? Summoner don't care, hand it over.