Can you use the Aid action to boost AC? Saves?

[Ravingdork]

Can you use the Aid action to boost AC like in 1st Edition? What about saves?

I didn't see any mention of it in the base Aid rules, yet, feats like Deft Cooperation exist that specifically reference boosting things other than the triggering checks.

[HumbleGamer]

Come to think of, there's the Shoony Steadfast Ally

Quote:

Your presence alone is enough to provide your allies with emotional support. You can use the Aid reaction to grant a bonus to another creature’s Will saving throw even when you haven’t prepared to help.

Not sure whether this is supposed to be one of the exceptions or they just forgot mentioning that aid also works to boost AC and Saves.

[Gortle]

Seems like a contradiction. There is no possibility if aiding DCs in the Aid action or in the feats relating to Aid that I can see. Shoonies, who take's those?! Without doubt the worst ancestry in the game.

Doesn't seem like a terrible option for a GM to improvise though. They would have to be careful about its use in boss fights though.

[Captain Morgan]

I would assume Deft Cooperation was confusing PF1 and PF2 rules when it was written. That said, you could probably allow someone who has the feat to boost AC and it wouldn't break anything. The circumstance bonus won't stack with shields or cover.

Saves is another matter. I'd generally assume you can't Aid saves but there may be specific situations that allow for it. I wouldn't let someone Aid on a poison save because that's what Treat Poison is for. But I might allow someone to Aid their ally in breaking out of an enchantment effect.

[breithauptclan]

Well, if anthropomorphic dogs aren't your thing, then how about anthropomorphic cats? Catfolk Graceful Guidance

Edit: I'm not sure that this is evidence that Aid on saves should be allowed by default. If it was allowed by default, then the feat does literally nothing.

[breithauptclan]

There is also Rapid Mantel that lets you use an Athletics check instead of a Reflex save to Grab an Edge. So it may be a bit strange to not allow Aid for the Reflex save to grab an edge, but do allow Aid on the Athletics check to do the exact same thing.

[HumbleGamer]

breithauptclan wrote:

There is also Rapid Mantel that lets you use an Athletics check instead of a Reflex save to Grab an Edge. So it may be a bit strange to not allow Aid for the Reflex save to grab an edge, but do allow Aid on the Athletics check to do the exact same thing.

Steady balance allows acrobatics in place of reflex too, but it's a little bit different since they are alternatives ( for example a STR based character with low reflexes, or an acrobat character with just expert in reflexes ) rather than aid actions meant to give an active boost to something useful.

[SuperBidi]

breithauptclan wrote:

Well, if anthropomorphic dogs aren't your thing, then how about anthropomorphic cats? Catfolk Graceful Guidance

Edit: I'm not sure that this is evidence that Aid on saves should be allowed by default. If it was allowed by default, then the feat does literally nothing.

Depends. To use the Aid action, the GM has to accept your way of Aiding. This feat allows you to Aid in any case and it looks like at any range (well, voice range). It's a bit like One for All: on paper, you can Aid any check with Diplomacy if you find a good way of Aiding. But with One for All, you don't even need to find a good way of Aiding.

Anyway, Aid says that you can only Aid skill checks or attack rolls, so no Aid for saves and DCs unless you have a proper feat. As a GM, I think I'll still allow it, if a player comes with a proper way of Aiding. Off course, unlike skill checks, I'll ask for a very interesting way of Aiding, as I'll be outside the rules.

[Onkonk]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Come to think of, there's the Shoony Steadfast Ally

Quote:

Your presence alone is enough to provide your allies with emotional support. You can use the Aid reaction to grant a bonus to another creature’s Will saving throw even when you haven’t prepared to help.

Not sure whether this is supposed to be one of the exceptions or they just forgot mentioning that aid also works to boost AC and Saves.

You forgot to look at the prerequisite feat, Loyal Empath.

Quote:

You have incredible empathy for your friends and family, and you have an innate timing for helping others in distress. You can use the Aid reaction to grant a bonus to another creature’s Will saving throw. As usual for Aid, you need to prepare by using an action on your turn to encourage the creature to bravely withstand the effect.

[Thod]

The CRB has written aid (I use lower case aid - not Aid !!) for AC written in the rules already - but maybe not in the way you think.

Aid (upper case) gives you a circumstance bonus

The Cover rules do deal with potential aid (lower case) Cover rules Nethys

No roll needed - you just step between yourself and the attacker. It is conceivable that other actions might be used. You might Aid by waving your hands and stepping back and forth to block a path - increasing lesser cover to standard cover.

You might aid by using something large (a table?) to block, etc.

So yes - RAI in my view is you can aid. It is written into the rules as cover. If you want to improve beyond that, then it falls into the area of GM should grand it (or not) depending on what you do.

Can you aid by waving a reach weapon up and down between two opponents? More or less give cover but from standing next to two fighting opponents? Maybe? Would have to look what precedent is there (wouldn't give it for free if there are feats for it) but wouldn't say outright no either.

But anything going above the cover rules would be - check with the GM.

[Captain Morgan]

Interposing yourself in such a way that you provide cover to an ally at the cost of making yourself flatfooted to the attack strikes me as a reasonable house rule action.