A quick run down on the Magus to test my understanding. Any obvious simple builds I've missed or other Feedback?
Magus
A classic gish. This is a martial character also with strong arcane magic. Its has a complex routine, but can do a very strong nova strike. You need to enter Arcane Cascade then simultaneously cast a spell and strike with a weapon with SpellStrike. Very flexible with damage types, though not great if your enemy is immune to magic or has an Attack of Opportunity - uncommon in this edition. It's very action intensive which means Haste or an Independant Mount is very important to you. It is hard to SpellStrike every round except in optimal situations. Example routine
Round 1: Shield cantrip, Arcane Cascade, Normal Strike
Round 2+: Spell Strike, recharge Spell Strike
Note the total lack of moves and other actions there. So more typically you will be Spell Striking every 2nd round and recharging in the off rounds.
A very thirsty class for spell slots. Picking up another casting archetype is very useful for extra spells. Another option is picking up a Focus Spell to use in Spell Strike. That way you can have a big damaging spell strike in every encounter. Wizard and Witch have some interesting options but in terms of pure damage they are only at cantrip level. Cleric has Fire Ray, and Winter Bolt via the right Domain Initiate, Druid has Tempest Surge , and Crushing Ground available via Order Spell.
For Spells the important thing to note is that you don’t really care about range so have a look at some touch spells. Once you have Expansive SpellStrike you do longer have to worry about whether there is an attack roll or not. Cone areas are better if you are meleeing, Areas work fine if you are doing ranged attacks.
Cantrips: Shield, Gouging Claw, then others for different damage types or control options
Spells: Shocking Grasp, True Strike (get a Ring of Wizardry), Hydraulic Push, Crashing Wave, Vampiric Touch. But don’t forget the spells like Invisibility(4), Wall of Force that can turn a combat all by themselves without a saving throw or to hit roll.
Ranged Magus
Hybrid Studies: Starlight Span
Str 10 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Leather, Composite ShortBow, Bladed Scarf
Class Feats: Level 2: Expansive SpellStrike, Force Fang, Level 6: Druid Dedication, Level 8: Order Spell for Crushing Ground, StandbySpell, Level 12: Conflux Focus, Level 14: Arcane Shroud
Skills: Acrobatics, Arcane, Stealth
You are unlikely to be able to afford the actions to avoid the volley penalty, so a long bow is mostly a bad idea. On the plus side you are more likely to be able to stand still as a ranged character and get a few consecutive SpellStrike rounds off.
Iron Magus
Hybrid Studies: Inexorable Iron,
Str 18 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Breastplate, Guisarme perhaps a Maul after you start using Enlarge.
Class Feats: Level 2: Expansive SpellStrike, Force Fang, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity Level 8: StandbySpell, Level 12: Conflux Focus, Level 14: Arcane Shroud
Skills: Athletics, Arcane
Sustaining Steel becomes good if you branch out into an archetype for more spell slots.
Shield Magus
Hybrid Studies: Sparkling Targe
Str 18 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Breastplate, Sturdy Shield and War Hammer
Class Feats: Level 2: Bastion Dedication, Expansive SpellStrike, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity Level 8: StandbySpell, Level 10: Quick Shield Block, then Dazzling Block Level 12: Conflux Focus, Level 14: Arcane Shroud
Skills: Athletics, Arcane
A tank build with nice spell defences. Tricky to use as in addition to all the other things you have to do you also have to raise your Shield. Bastion Dedication is compulsory even with Shielding Strike.
Finesse Magus
Hybrid Studies: Laughing Shadow
Str 10 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Leather then Unarmoured when it works, Rapier, Whip, LongBow
Class Feats: Level 2: Expansive SpellStrike, Force Fang, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity Level 8: StandbySpell, Level 10: Dimensional Disappearance, Level 12: Conflux Focus, Level 14: Arcane Shroud
Skills: Stealth, Acrobatics, Arcane
The finesse melee magus tries to hide during its down turns while it recharges its spell strike. To me the concept works, just not in a party where the enemy has other targets. That is unless those targets are very well defended. Or it can just teleport into a flanking position to attack. Which seem to me would go well with a few Rogue feats
Staff Magus
Hybrid Studies:Twisting Tree
Str 18 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Breastplate, Staff of Divination
Class Feats: Level 2: Expansive SpellStrike, Force Fang, Level 4: Student of the Staff, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity Level 8: StandbySpell, Level10: Lunging Spellstrike, Level 12: Conflux Focus, Level 14: Arcane Shroud
Skills: Athletics, Arcane
The staff specialist. It's a really good way to get some extra spells early out of a Staff. Plus True Strike is always good to pick up when you have a big strike. The extra reach you get out of Lunging Spellstrike is a good way of dealing with a ranged threat.
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A quick run down on the Magus to test my understanding. Any obvious simple builds I've missed or other Feedback?
In my opinion, there are 4 Magus builds if you expect efficiency:
- Ranged build.- Mounted build.
- Goblin + Independent Familiar build.
- Hero Point hungry build.
The rest is just icing on the cake.
As a side note, the Mounted build is major and should appear in your list. And there's the Cleric Dedication build (to get Fire Ray) that you missed.
Bastion is nice support for targe but you basically have reactive shield already with emergency targe 2 levels later. Save that dedication for spellcasting or sentinel to be even more tanky.
Yep that was an oversight, I still want Bastion for this build for the second shield block, but I might just wait till Quick Shield Block becomes avaiable and retrain it then.
Expansive spellstrike is mainly a boon for starlit span. Forcefang even if only for the extra focus point will be more useful for most builds.
Its in all the builds. But yes Expansive Spell Strike can be trimmed if you aren't going to take any of the appropriate spells. I still like the option for a line or cone attack for the melee Magus
A quick run down on the Magus to test my understanding. Any obvious simple builds I've missed or other Feedback?In my opinion, there are 4 Magus builds if you expect efficiency:
- Ranged build.
- Mounted build.
- Goblin + Independent Familiar build.
- Hero Point hungry build.The rest is just icing on the cake.
As a side note, the Mounted build is major and should appear in your list. And there's the Cleric Dedication build (to get Fire Ray) that you missed.
The mounted build is fairly obvious and I did mention it and the cleric build. But I'll include them.
What do you mean by Goblin Build - did you mean Sprite?
What is the Hero point hungry build - aside from all of them.
It can be handy as long as you have focus points to capitalize on the action economy of expansive spellstrike because otherwise, expansive spellstrike + recharge has the same action cost as casting normally + strike. The main thing that stands out to me with starlit span is that you can change the origin point of a spell with expansive spellstrike as long as it's adjacent to the target. Gives lines and cones a lot more versatility.
Yeah, that is mostly my thought on expansive spellstrike too. On a range-capable Magus it works quite well to change the origin point of area spells. For melee, it has the possibility of improving the action cost of one turn, but at the expense of a later turn.
On one turn you can: Stride into position; AOE Spellstrike.
Then on a later turn you will have to recharge spellstrike before it is usable again.
Or you can: Stride into position; AOE Spell
Then your spellstrike is already charged for the next turn. You have lost the Strike on the first turn, but you gain the action back in later turns when you don't need to recharge spellstrike.
And this is before we get into the small risk of losing the spell entirely on a crit fail of the Strike.
So my conclusion on it is that it is still a good choice for melee-Magus - it opens up some more tactical options that weren't available before. But it isn't a must-pick by any measure. It is also quite a bit more valuable on a ranged-Magus.
Shield Magus
Hybrid Studies: Sparkling Targe
Str 18 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Breastplate, Sturdy Shield and War Hammer
Class Feats: Level 2: Bastion Dedication, Force Fang Level 4: Emergency Targe Level 6: Attack of Opportunity Level 8: StandbySpell, Level 10: Quick Shield Block, then Dazzling Block Level 12: Conflux Focus, Level 14: Arcane Shroud
Skills: Athletics, Arcane
A tank build with nice spell defences. Tricky to use as in addition to all the other things you have to do you also have to raise your Shield. Bastion Dedication is important, but training it out when you get Emergency Targe at level 4 makes sense till you need it for Quick Block at level 10
Holy Magus
Hybrid Studies: Inexorable Iron,
Str 18 Dex 10 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Full Plate, Guisarme perhaps a Maul after you start using Enlarge.
Class Feats: Level 2:Cleric Dedication, Force Fang, Level 4: Domain Initiate for Fire Ray, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity Level 8: StandbySpell, Level 12: Conflux Focus, Level 14: Arcane Shroud
Skills: Athletics, Arcane
Finding Wisdom 14 is tough early, but a big fire hit every combat is worth it. Take Armor Proficiency for heavy armour, and retrain to get Sentinel when you can find space for it.
Mounted Magus
Hybrid Studies: Inexorable Iron,
Str 18 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Breastplate, Guisarme
Class Feats: Level 2: Beastmaster Dedication, Force Fang, Level 4: Mature Beastmaster Companion Level 6: Attack of Opportunity Level 8: StandbySpell, Level 12: Conflux Focus, Level 14: Side by Side, Arcane Shroud
Skills: Athletics, Arcane
This really helps with movement and the action economy. You can invest further in your mount if you can find the space, I can’t.
Sentinel is pretty much mandatory for any melee magus sadly. Melee magus wants too many stats (Str,Con,Int,Dex,Wis) and is squishy.
Heavy armor makes it tankier which it really needs, and lets it dump dex so it can focus on all the other stats it needs.
Yes but you can say heavy armour about any class really. It does have some down sides like poor reflex defence - you will get tripped a lot. There is also no swimming in heavy armour with most GMs (yeah I know thats not actually a rule). It does have an oppourtunity cost in terms of what else you can take instead. So I'm only mentioning it when I feel its really required - like by the Holy Magus. I'm trying to use the core class abilitites as much as I can.
I also recommend Opportunity Attack for every melee build that has the option - because it is so good. But it is repetitive. If you don't have reach it is something you could trade away.
My favorite magus build is an orc inexorable iron magus with sustaining steel, conflux focus, and fused staff who takes witch archetype for lesson of life and full breadth spell slots. The extra slots are mostly geared towards survivability and utility. Top two or three spell lvl slots can go towards attack roll spells if you want. No attack of opportunity bc there's no space and we aren't using a reach weapon bc we want BIGGEST NUMBERS!!! Don't forget to throw in toughness, diehard, and a full suite of orc survivability feats. You become a stout magic striker with a versatile suite of spells that's hard to bring down without repeated burst damage. It's everything I want out of a battle mage but those who don't want to bonk with BIGGEST DAMAGE to the exclusion of all else might be better served with sparkling targe. Idk I haven't run numbers on how much of a beating the shield magi can take bc my child-like brain wants to roll d12s.
My favorite magus build is an orc inexorable iron magus with sustaining steel, conflux focus, and fused staff who takes witch archetype for lesson of life and full breadth spell slots. The extra slots are mostly geared towards survivability and utility. Top two or three spell lvl slots can go towards attack roll spells if you want. Don't forget to throw in toughness, diehard, and a full suite of orc survivability feats. You become a stout magic striker with a versatile suite of spells that's hard to bring down without repeated burst damage. It's everything I want out of a battle mage but those who don't want to bonk with BIGGEST DAMAGE to the exclusion of all else might be better served with sparkling targe. Idk I haven't run numbers on how much of a beating the shield magi can take bc my child-like brain wants to roll d12s.Do you find fused staff useful? I liked it initially then decided it was almost a waste of a feat. The spells aren’t high enough level to spellstrike with worth a damn hah, and it takes an action to shift to staff form to cast anything else.
The answer to fairly balanced magic feeling less impactful is to have more of it (imo). I wouldn't really spell strike with my staff but I would get a fair amount of utility slots. That's a lot of spell casting without having to hold a staff as well as my great sword (which I couldn't attack with bc of two handed). As far as action economy goes it's more something I would use in rp or exploration as opposed to combat. The reason I want it fused instead of just stowed in my bag of holding is bc rule of cool doesn't jive with my muscle magus stowing his bonker to pull a stick out of his bag. It's a small QoL feature that I personally want on every magus that isn't twisted tree. I can perfectly understand someone not finding it worthwhile. For me though, I'll never say no to more magic.
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Gortle, I just want to say that I have really been getting a lot out of these "Basic Builds" threads of yours. Thanks for doing them!
For those who haven't seen the others:
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The mounted build is fairly obvious and I did mention it and the cleric build. But I'll include them.What do you mean by Goblin Build - did you mean Sprite?
What is the Hero point hungry build - aside from all of them.
Sorry, I answered a bit too fast and didn't read your entire post. By Goblin Build, I mean the combo between an Independent Familiar and Goblin/Skittering Scuttle to gain an extra move action per round. And by Hero Point hungry, I mean a build where you use a Hero Point on every failed Spellstrike (there are environments where you have tons of Hero Points, PFS for example where you can get extra Hero Points at the start of the session by being a seasoned GM).
The Magus class is extremely simple, but they added a lot of noise to it. Conflux spells, Recharge, Arcane Cascade, all of that is icing on the cake. The whole point of the class is alpha strike. Your goal is to score the first kill, as early as possible, as it's a way to win fights.
For that, you have a wonderful tool: Rerolled Spellstrike (rerolled through True Strike or the use of a Hero Point). Rerolled Spellstrike is the highest-damage martial single-target 3-action sequence in the game with Impossible Flurry. Actually, by using a rerolled Spellstrike at round 1 and just swinging your sword with normal Strikes during the later rounds you compete with a Fighter in terms of average damage output. So I can even say that the Magus is the highest martial damage dealer in the game as you deal Fighter damage but with a better repartition of this damage (most of it when you decide it).
But for that, you need to get this first round rerolled Spellstrike. If you can't reroll it, the average damage of a Spellstrike is no more stellar. If you can't use it at first round (or at least as early as possible), your chances to score some overkill becomes too high, unless you decide to target a full hp enemy but then you lose the advantage of focus fire and it's no more a winning move.
As such, the best Magus builds are, in my opinion, those allowing you to get this first round rerolled Spellstrike as often as possible.
Ranged builds are obvious: One action for True Strike, 2 for Spellstrike. Easy to use, one of the most straightforward Magus build.
Mounted builds (and the goblin build) give you a free move action per round. As such, you can Stride, True Strike and Spellstrike.
If you don't use any of these build, then you need to be ready to siphon Hero Points into your Spellstrikes: Stride, Spellstrike, Hero Point in case of failure. As a side note, True Strike Spellstrike does more damage than Hero Point Spellstrike, so it's not the best build of the 4.
I haven't spoken about the Lunging Spellstrike option, because it comes online very late.
I know, there's one case where you don't need to score a first round rerolled Spellstrike: boss fights. In that case, you have more freedom and can score it during the second round (and it can even be argued that it's a good choice as it allows you to check first that the boss doesn't have some crazy defensive abilities). What's funny is that rerolled Spellstrike is even better against a boss than against a mook, so during boss fights you should easily outdamage a Fighter.
Once you have done your rerolled Spellstrike, no one cares much about what you do. You can use whatever sequence of Arcane Cascade, Strikes, Conflux Spells, it won't affect greatly the damage output you'll deliver during the fight. Trying to score a second Spellstrike is also not really useful as you'll do it at round 3 which is way too late (and you should never use Recharge as it drops the damage output per action of your Spellstrike too much). That's the moment where your choice of feats and Hybrid Studies becomes the more important but also the moment where your actions are the less important. I'll tend to focus on defensive abilities at that stage, as chances are high that you have attracted a lot of attention with your first round.
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Gortle, I just want to say that I have really been getting a lot out of these "Basic Builds" threads of yours. Thanks for doing them!
For those who haven't seen the others:
I'm just crowd sourcing experience. The game is too big to get across it all without some help. They are all properly linked up in a document, I'll publish them all when I'm done.
I find that the sample builds provided in the book and on Nethys are based on how the designers hoped the game might work, rather than what actually does work.
This is wonderful, thanks!
Sorry, I answered a bit too fast and didn't read your entire post. By Goblin Build, I mean the combo between an Independent Familiar and Goblin/Skittering Scuttle to gain an extra move action per round.
Noted: The Magus is very action intensive which means Haste or an Independant Mount is very important to you. Other options include an Independant Familiar and Goblin Scuttle or a Corgi Mount. It is hard to SpellStrike every round except in optimal situations.
It is hard to SpellStrike every round except in optimal situations.
In my opinion, if you aim at targetting non-experienced players with your builds it shouldn't even be a desirable situation. Spellstriking round after round will ask you to either use a Conflux Spell (all the basic ones increase your MAP) or Recharge. As such you won't be able to use True Strike and will need to use Hero Points to reroll your Spellstrike. If you don't want to use a Hero Point, your damage output is average, especially if you use a cantrip. If you use a spell slot, then you want to reroll it as you don't want to miss such an important move both in terms of action cost and resource used. It's a conundrum even for experienced players, and there's no ideal outcome.
Comparison between a Gouging Claw Spellstrike and 3 Strikes.
As you can see, there's exactly no difference between a Gouging Claw Spellstrike and 3 Strikes (not an optimized action sequence at all, even if I've used a Greatsword). Spellstrike is only valid if it is rerolled. And using a Hero Point every other round (as you should hit 50% of the time roughly) is not sustainable.
After your first Spellstrike, you should concentrate on the other Magus abilities. Going into Arcane Cascade, using normal Strikes, Focus Spells and so on. That's far easier and you should reach similar efficiency.
Actually, you can play a very competitive Magus by ignoring Recharge and Arcane Cascade and only use rerolled Spellstrike, Strikes and Focus Spells (including Conflux Spells but for their direct effect and not their recharge effect). And of course, using your spells for multi target spells (even if a Shocking Grasp can be useful for the boss fights). That's as close as possible from the most optimized Magus play but usable by beginners.
Gortle, I just want to say that I have really been getting a lot out of these "Basic Builds" threads of yours. Thanks for doing them!
For those who haven't seen the others:
I'm just crowd sourcing experience. The game is too big to get across it all without some help. They are all properly linked up in a document, I'll publish them all when I'm done.
I find that the sample builds provided in the book and on Nethys are based on how the designers hoped the game might work, rather than what actually does work.
Yes, those tidbits of experience that people have been posting are what I've found to be so useful.
How would you go about building a Magus with a martial Reload 1 ranged weapon or combination weapon? Would you even recommend that?
Would you even recommend that?
It would certainly be rather difficult to find enough actions for everything that you would want to do in a turn. It is hard enough as it is.
So other than doing the 1/battle spellstrike that SuperBidi mentions
After your first Spellstrike, you should concentrate on the other Magus abilities. Going into Arcane Cascade, using normal Strikes, Focus Spells and so on. That's far easier and you should reach similar efficiency.
you might just go with a reload 0 bow.
And if you are only planning for 1/battle spellstrike, Gunslinger with Magus Archetype may be quite suitable.
And if you are only planning for 1/battle spellstrike, Gunslinger with Magus Archetype may be quite suitable.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) it doesn't work. You need Starlit Span for ranged Spellstrike.
How would you go about building a Magus with a martial Reload 1 ranged weapon or combination weapon? Would you even recommend that?
To answer the question, no, I don't think I would recommend it, but I don't think it's underpowered. Firearms deal more damage than bows, but have the drawback of needing reload. They all have the Concussive trait which is way better than it looks (from first hand experience). Overall, I don't think you'll lose much on your Magus, but because of Magus constrained action economy you'll certainly focus on firing and having this one Spellstrike per battle. It's not bad per se, but it's more limited than a classic Starlit Span Magus who uses much more varied actions.
And if you are only planning for 1/battle spellstrike, Gunslinger with Magus Archetype may be quite suitable.Unfortunately (or fortunately) it doesn't work. You need Starlit Span for ranged Spellstrike.
Ah, yes. I had forgotten that.