Is greater blind fight really that necessary with the blinded blade tree? With my build (blind zeal, improved blind fight, blinded blade, blinded competence, blinded master; all by level three) I have plenty of space for greater blind fight, but am unsure if it really provides any benefit at this point.
Thanks for any help!
TDP
Well your style feats require you to be in combat before you can activate them at all, and Greater Blind Fighting probably negates some edge cases of concealment that Blindsight doesn't, but it's not an enormous advantage at this point, no. If you *really* want to corner the effortless blind master role, it covers you if you're out of combat and want to catch flies with chopsticks or something.
I still try include Greater Blind Fighting, personally. I see how it is potentially redundant, but I don't feel complete without it.
If you happen to conveniently worship Vildeis, and took the Blinded Zeal trait... you should definitely have room for it.
Awesome, thanks for the prompt responses!
Style feats can only be used in combat?
Style feats can only be used in combat?
You only have that particular action economy in initiative order/surprise round... as far as I know, yes.
Crafting is in hours, gathering information with Diplomacy is in hours... pretty sure Profession is ran like Crafting... so, in hours. Outside of combat, it's just the time it takes out of a day... nobody has "turns" working at the sawmill.
There's literally no available swift action sitting at a bar. If you intend to start combat, and can use swift actions in a surprise round, then suddenly you have swift actions available to get into a Style.
Otherwise, no. Day-to-day, mundane BS is not run in a Combat Style. It's just not even available to posture as such until combat is upon us...
TECHNICALLY... 6-seconds rounds do ALWAYS exist for things like Fast Healing, even a Commoner with such gets its benefits working the fields, never seeing combat or "rolling initiative" a single time in their life. Why they have it? Nobody knows, that is not part of this discussion.
Darn, using blinded blade all the time is what I was going for. A daredevil-esque build. Senses tuned to 11 at all times.
Might be able to find some goodies in the "self-only" permenant spell list... that $#!+ is ridiculously underrated, and actually quite affordable. I would have to look again to guarantee there's anything useful for this theme, but it's a goldmine, nonetheless.
Like just permanencied spells?
Yeah...
Arcane Sight, CL 11, 7500gp
Aura Sight, CL 11, 7500gp
Darkvision, CL 10, 5000gp
Detect Magic, CL 9, 2500gp
Enchantment Sight, CL 9, 2500gp
Read Magic, CL 9, 2500gp
See Invisibility, CL 10, 5000gp
Speechreader's Sight, CL 9, 2500gp
To name a few...
Ah well ya, I know purchases are part of builds, but I’m trying to get the most out of this particular build as I can without item assistance. I’ll keep those in mind though, thank you.
Style feats can only be used in combat?
Yeah there's a specific rule on it that you can't activate them before combat begins IIRC. I mean you could probably talk your GM into it, but then always-on blindsight is pretty strong too.
If it's a named NPC/important villain/BBEG, then give them Leadership for a Wizard cohort... now the costs of those spells were purchased with a feat.
We usually never try spend a feat on what can be bought with gold, but a Wizard cohort is an ace-up-the-sleeve... you see, PF1 will cradle the b@lls, stroke the shaft, work the pipe, and swallow the gravy if you have a Wizard...
Ah ok well that’s a bit of a damper.
Bahaha wow made my night. That was perfectly graphic.
I mean between Blind Zeal and the blind fight tree, you're still gonna come off pretty much fully functional blind. Personally, I think it's more interesting to be a bit unassuming and then bust out the full sensory array and kung fu the moment combat starts. More Zatoichi than Daredevil.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The relevant 'style feats only work in combat' rule: Description Source
Ultimate Combat pg. 78
As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you spend a swift action to switch to a different combat style. You can use a feat that has a style feat as a prerequisite only while in the stance of the associated style. For example, if you have feats associated with Mantis Style and Tiger Style, you can use a swift action to adopt Tiger Style at the start of one turn, and then can use other feats that have Tiger Style as a prerequisite. By using another swift action at the start of your next turn, you could adopt Mantis Style and use other feats that have Mantis Style as a prerequisite.
...
Well disappointing but that is a good point, busting out extrasensory perception when combat begins is a pretty cool surprise.
Thanks for the rules clarification.
While you can not start a style feat before combat begins it doesn't state that it ends when combat ends.
So it would be within the rules to have the style feat remain active until you do something that isn't compatible with it, like sleeping.
While you can not start a style feat before combat begins it doesn't state that it ends when combat ends.
So it would be within the rules to have the style feat remain active until you do something that isn't compatible with it, like sleeping.
You're completely right by strict RAW - but you won't find a GM who'll let that fly. It's one of these thing where no one uses the RAW, alongside Simple Weapon Proficiency applying to any penalty, polymorph rules not applying to supernatural abilities, polymorph spells granting natural attacks per their description also granting all the attacks of the creature in addition, Double Slice and Two-Weapon Rend working with crossbows and guns, and effects that increase mental ability scores also increasing spells per day.
It's not an action economy thing, it's a specific rule that says you can't use style feats before combat begins. I'd be inclined to allow using them for the most part, but probably not for having always-on-blindsight at level 3.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I mean, I'd be fine with my player benefitting from Blinded Blade Style all the time and then just ruling that their first Swift Action of every combat is spent on Blinded Blade Style.
Like, this person is role playing being a blind person and not just using this to see in darkness or w/e. That seems like a reasonable concession.
What's the trick to getting blinded master without needing the prerequisite greater blind-fight?
Greater Blind-Fight makes all concealment at any range only partial concealment. I think it's pretty nice
Blindsight/sense don't really help dealing with the day to day problems of being blind; Just the combat problems. So allowing it is more of a flavor thing than a "this is broken" thing.
The most troublesome thing is "you can detect creatures nearby". Which is more of a "this player can do what all other players can do normally". Aka it's a bunch of feats to get back to normal, letting the player use it out of combat doesn't brake anything. Unlike you know, the flying/aquatic rules being weird.
I was messing around with a Pact Wizard Necromancer... Clouded Vision Curse, but she has the Necromancy School's Life Sight. Even gestalt'ed her with Dark Lurker UnRogue for easy access to Blind Fight and, thus, Blinded Master... but she still can't read her own spellbook. Lol. She can technically read, since the Clouded Vision Curse allows one to still see as if they had Darkvision... but literally none of her fancy feats or class abilities allow her any sort of extraordinary ability to perceive finite detail with her eyes closed/covered, or otherwise blinded. She has Blindsense, Blindsight, and Life Sight... but still has to open her clouded eyes to use her spellbook.
I believe a Master of Many Styles could take the improved versions without meeting the prerequisites for the style.
The improved versions don't have the "style" tag that you see on the first feat in the chain making them not style feats. I think that's how it works anyway. I could be mistaken.
Blindsight/sense don't really help dealing with the day to day problems of being blind; Just the combat problems. So allowing it is more of a flavor thing than a "this is broken" thing.
True blindsight would help you deal with a lot of everyday problems. But that's not what the feat chain does - because only "your ability to pinpoint creatures’ locations" function like blindsight. So why you'll be able know where a creature is, you don't know what your surroundings are like. You also don't know what creatures are doing, can't use spellcraft, and so on.
I believe a Master of Many Styles could take the improved versions without meeting the prerequisites for the style.
The original version would've, but not the errata'd one.
I’ll have to check my build. Been out of the country. Pretty sure it’s legal. It’s an old build on the boards that gets you everything by level three. Cheesy but works as far as I know. Things might’ve been errata’d.
Since it’s not a pfs game, and the GM is either myself or a friend, and we like to roleplay and not just murder-hobo, what are some steps I could take to maintain balance if I were to keep the blinded-blade style feats active all the time?