Okay, Disarm is widely regarded as a waste of an action, because its effect ends at the start of an enemy's turn, so it is pointless.
Consider, however, using it as an AoO. Sure, dealing damage brings the foe closer to destruction, and in most cases, this is what you want to do. But if you won't be dropping the foe with your AoO, then imposing a Slow 1 or -2 to attacks for 1 round is potentially the difference between you staying on your feet for another round.
So yeah, Disarm, as all skill actions, is a 'sometimes' thing. And the time to use it is as an Attack of Opportunity.
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But AoO requires you to do a Strike, not a Disarm...
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As Blave already pointed out, substituting Athletics maneuvers for the Strike in AoO has never been an option in PF2. You may have mistakenly assumed that the 1E rule about substituting maneuvers for attacks was still a thing.
That being said, yes, this is why Disarming Block can be a useful feat.
As Blave already pointed out, substituting Athletics maneuvers for the Strike in AoO has never been an option in PF2. You may have mistakenly assumed that the 1E rule about substituting maneuvers for attacks was still a thing.
That being said, yes, this is why Disarming Block can be a useful feat.
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It's not for using as your own attack of opportunity... but it can be useful against an enemy that has attack of opportunity.
You can also up the effectiveness a bit by taking the Avengers + Guardians vs. Thanos approach and having multiple party members attempt to disarm the same target so the chances of getting a critical success and actually taking the weapon away from the foe are higher.
When I ran Age of Ashes when the characters were at high level (something around L16 IIRC) they REALLY wanted to disarm an opponent for <reasons>. So they tried it as a group effort. Failure.
I later ran the numbers and determined that 3 martials all full attacking that particular enemy had something on the order of a 40% chance of success. That was with some buffs and penalties having been applied.
Yeah, it CAN work. But just knocking the guy unconscious is generally a MUCH better idea.
If the penalty lasted until the end of that target's next round, then it would be a reasonable debuff. The target can either be slowed 1 as they spend an action regripping, or they can deal with the penalty for their entire next turn.
As it is - really hard to find a use for.
It's certainly possible, sure, though not necessarily how you'd want to spend 2 actions, the end of your turn (if you would have had any left over), and a Reaction.
As Blave already pointed out, substituting Athletics maneuvers for the Strike in AoO has never been an option in PF2. You may have mistakenly assumed that the 1E rule about substituting maneuvers for attacks was still a thing.
That being said, yes, this is why Disarming Block can be a useful feat.
... Damn, we've been playing over a year now and these things still creep in. Yes, by RAW an AoO can only be a strike, not a skill check, even if it has the Attack trait in PF2.
Not that it changes much, but I really like the old way better. One of my toons with a Bo Staff once used a readied action to trip someone charging him, then used Disarm as his AoO when the guy got up again. The enemy would either lose his last action adjusting his grip, or attack at -2, which he did. Made that attack not crit, which was nice...
If the penalty lasted until the end of that target's next round, then it would be a reasonable debuff. The target can either be slowed 1 as they spend an action regripping, or they can deal with the penalty for their entire next turn.
As it is - really hard to find a use for.
Yeah, it is in a weird space. But if it wasn't limited to the beginning of the enemy's next turn, it would either be a constant Slow-1 or -2 to attacks, way more powerful then any regular debuff available, and thus, unfortunately, not reasonable. Maybe if it was limited to the first attack in the round or some such.
But yeah, fishing for crits with this is a bit too much of a long shot most of the time.
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Yeah, it is in a weird space. But if it wasn't limited to the beginning of the enemy's next turn, it would either be a constant Slow-1 or -2 to attacks, way more powerful then any regular debuff available, and thus, unfortunately, not reasonable. Maybe if it was limited to the first attack in the round or some such.But yeah, fishing for crits with this is a bit too much of a long shot most of the time.
This is what Trip already does (Stand or take -2 to attacks because prone) but the Crit Effect is ofc much weaker. Though Swashbuckler can take a level 1 feat to make it last on their turn as well.
This is what Trip already does (Stand or take -2 to attacks because prone) but the Crit Effect is ofc much weaker. Though Swashbuckler can take a level 1 feat to make it last on their turn as well.
Yeah, it is in a weird space. But if it wasn't limited to the beginning of the enemy's next turn, it would either be a constant Slow-1 or -2 to attacks, way more powerful then any regular debuff available, and thus, unfortunately, not reasonable. Maybe if it was limited to the first attack in the round or some such.But yeah, fishing for crits with this is a bit too much of a long shot most of the time.
That is why Improved Knockdown is such a powerful feat and only happens at lv. 10. Knockdown is pretty neat too, at least as long as your chance to land the initial strike is reasonably good.
And Disarming Flair is very 'on brand' for the fighting style Swashbucklers represent. Combine with Assurance for a nice 3rd action... Makes taking the archetype feats look interesting. For non-martials wielding a reach weapon... "I'm helping!"
...For non-martials wielding a reach weapon... "I'm helping!"
Non-martials having a change at disarming, tripping, etc. is one upside to those being athletics checks rather than Strikes.
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Especially seeing that non-martials being able to be competent at combat maneuvers doesn't step on the martial's toes. Their core-competency is still single-target damage after all.
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Not that it changes much, but I really like the old way better. One of my toons with a Bo Staff once used a readied action to trip someone charging him, then used Disarm as his AoO when the guy got up again. The enemy would either lose his last action adjusting his grip, or attack at -2, which he did. Made that attack not crit, which was nice...
Did he have feats to get more than one reaction? Because using a readied action takes a reaction too.
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Not that it changes much, but I really like the old way better. One of my toons with a Bo Staff once used a readied action to trip someone charging him, then used Disarm as his AoO when the guy got up again. The enemy would either lose his last action adjusting his grip, or attack at -2, which he did. Made that attack not crit, which was nice...Did he have feats to get more than one reaction? Because using a readied action takes a reaction too.
... He did not... :(
Okay, time to really go over the rules with a reading glass again. :P
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Not that it changes much, but I really like the old way better. One of my toons with a Bo Staff once used a readied action to trip someone charging him, then used Disarm as his AoO when the guy got up again. The enemy would either lose his last action adjusting his grip, or attack at -2, which he did. Made that attack not crit, which was nice...Did he have feats to get more than one reaction? Because using a readied action takes a reaction too.... He did not... :(
Okay, time to really go over the rules with a reading glass again. :P
I've been there. :)
I think Michael Sayre commented at one point that the intent behind Disarm would be to have two characters make the attempt in order to achieve the Critical Success hence the +2 bonus for additional attempts.