SR Check vs multiple creatures

[Mrakvampire]

Hello All and Happy New Year!

Quick question.
When caster uses spell that has SR versus several creatures with different SR values - should caster roll only once and apply result to all of them or for each creature separate CL roll?

Thank you in advance!

[Diego Rossi]

Yes.

Quote:

The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class

against magical attacks.

When you make an area attack you make a single attack roll, and apply the result to all the possible targets. SR should work the same.

[Java Man]

The only area attacks I know of with attack rolls (scatter firearms and whirlwind attack feat) call for multiple rolls, what other cases are there?

[Claxon]

I would say if it's one (or no) attack roll for all target's then it's definitely only 1 spell resistance check against all.

If it's multiple attack rolls then maybe you could argue for multiple spell resistance checks.

But honestly I look at it as one spell, cast at the same power, and so it's all the same spell resistance check.

[JoeCoffee]

The below is a copy/paste from d20pfsrd. Does this mean a Fireball for example would require only 1 CL roll VS all affected creatures, and a Chain Lightning for example would get 1 CL roll VS each affected creature?

Targeted Spells

Spell resistance applies if the spell is targeted at the creature. Some individually targeted spells can be directed at several creatures simultaneously. In such cases, a creature’s spell resistance applies only to the portion of the spell actually targeted at that creature. If several different resistant creatures are subjected to such a spell, each checks its spell resistance separately.

URL: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Gamemastering/special-abilities/#TOC-Spell-Resista nce

[Chell Raighn]

There really isn’t any hard fast rule for it, so the answer varies from table to table… typically a GM will match their ruling to how they roll damage for AOE spells…

For example if you cast fireball and your GM has you roll damage individually for each affected creature, they will most likely also have you roll your caster level check for spell resistance separately for each target as well. If they have you roll the damage once and apply it to all affected then they will most likely only have you roll for spell resistance once as well.

[Diego Rossi]

Java Man wrote:

The only area attacks I know of with attack rolls (scatter firearms and whirlwind attack feat) call for multiple rolls, what other cases are there?

True, I misremembered how it works.

[Majuba]

It's GM call, or player preference. If the player doesn't clarify before rolling, it's definitely whatever the GM uses by default. In general, the speediness of doing one roll is beneficial (especially if different creatures have different SRs, otherwise can get confusing). However the "all or nothing"ness of it leads me to allow players to specify individual rolls if they like.

It's comparable to a GM only rolling one save for a group of rogues with evasion to determine that.

[Azothath]

Mrakvampire wrote:

... When caster uses spell that has SR versus several creatures with different SR values - should caster roll only once and apply result to all of them or for each creature separate CL roll? ...

the usual procedure: the caster states a spell and designates a target(s)/origin, then rolls damage dice and informs the GM of his DC, then informs the GM of the damage. The GM should ask for a(single) caster level check (SR) roll if needed (and hopefully knows if the PC has certain feats). Then make saves for the targets and what not. I'm assuming that the GM has only his NPCs to worry about.

Rolling damage die for each creature and object in the AoE of a Fireball would be a non-RAW method.

I'd try to keep it to one caster level check(SR) roll per casting. There are exceptions, see Prismatic Wall.

[Majuba]

Heya Az!

SR should come before damage rolls, in case of metagamey aspects (like rerolls).

[Azothath]

Majuba wrote:

Heya Az!

SR should come before damage rolls, in case of metagamey aspects (like rerolls).

I understand but that's not the usual information flow process in the game unless there's only one target and players are often enthusiastically rolling damage dice as soon as they state their intentions. More dice is more fun!! We rely on GMs to do things fairly.

A caster is just informed that their spell failed not why.
While SR under Targeted Spells mentions "each checks its SR separately" and this means each creature uses it own SR value and not another creatures.

I'm trying to think of reroll exceptions where SR is initially successful (thus the Prismatic Wall above). Metamagics suffer the worst option. SR isn't a save and it comes before saving throws in the sequence of events.

[Claxon]

JoeCoffee wrote:

The below is a copy/paste from d20pfsrd. Does this mean a Fireball for example would require only 1 CL roll VS all affected creatures, and a Chain Lightning for example would get 1 CL roll VS each affected creature?

Targeted Spells

Spell resistance applies if the spell is targeted at the creature. Some individually targeted spells can be directed at several creatures simultaneously. In such cases, a creature’s spell resistance applies only to the portion of the spell actually targeted at that creature. If several different resistant creatures are subjected to such a spell, each checks its spell resistance separately.

URL: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Gamemastering/special-abilities/#TOC-Spell-Resista nce

Th each checks it's spell resistance separately means that they each use their own spell resistance. It's not a case one creature having spell resistance negates the spell effect for everyone.

I stick by the concept, one spell cast, one caster level check to determine if you overcome spell resistance. I would use the analogy of how much "effort" you're putting into the spell, but you still are only casting one spell so it's the same amount of effort applied against everyone it affects.

[drsparnum]

I think it is your call. Keep in mind the advantages of each approach: 1. Faster play if there is just 1 roll, vs. 2. Less extreme all/nothing effects if it is rolled individually for each target.

[Diego Rossi]

drsparnum wrote:

I think it is your call. Keep in mind the advantages of each approach: 1. Faster play if there is just 1 roll, vs. 2. Less extreme all/nothing effects if it is rolled individually for each target.

2 happens only if all the opponents have the same SR.

I am really amazed that the question was never officially answered in Pathfinder, but, from what I see, there is no official answer.

[Java Man]

If the caster has something that would allow a reroll of the SR check whether it is one or multiple checks is more important.

[Azothath]

the only thing I can find that would allow a reroll of this type (ignoring mythic or hero points) is; Drinking Buddy feat, Pale Maiden(0 wishes)$32065, Luck Blade (0 wishes)$22060, Bracelet of Good Charms(halfling)$16000, Fate's Shears $3600.