| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Many folks have particular campaign ideas they want run, and some are difficult to find a GM for.
Well, here is your chance to get it run.
Note: If you want a published AP it will need to be provided.
The system I'm using is modified 3.5/pf1. It is also going a different direction from 5e/pf2 style play, instead focusing on a more naturalistic combat-as-war OSR style of play without so many confusing rules. The rules here are meant as support for the gameplay, but not as the game itself.
I would prefer to run it as voicechat around midnight in the US, but I'm willing to do PBP if no one is willing to do VC.
Anybody interested?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sounds interesting, though I never got around to watching Black Lagoon.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Potentially, yes. I even have two you could choose from. The biggest issue is transposing notes from paper to digital.
A quick summery should be fine for trying to get some other players together.
Unless you're looking for solo.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Given some recent PMs.
The big questions to be answered on a campaign idea,
1. What is the core concept distilled to one sentance. (i.e. a party of monster races seeking to found a city for monsters, or star trek but with magic, etc)
2. If setting matters, what setting or aspects of setting matter.
3. Unless you're looking for solo, why other players will want to pitch in with your idea.
As a gm, naturally many things will be created and managed by me, so I need some clarity on the important traits I need to make sure I don't break or disregard. Also, setting material that I need to research vs stuff I can just fill in from my own creativity is important.
I guess another way of putting is to ask the question, what things, if they got changed, would feel like it's not the game you asked for?
For example, if it's not on golarion, is that going to make you leave? If so, better put that in answering question 2.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
> around midnight in the US
Which time zone?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm thinking that two of you are all that have shown interest so far, so I'll give it till next Friday, and if no one else comes along I'll pick one of your game ideas to run, and the other can join in if they want. I'll do a week long recruitment, but with custom rules, additional players are unlikely.
If you both join in awesome, and then I can run the other's concept afterward if interest is still strong by then.
That said, right now I only have a loose and vague understanding of one presented idea, so choosing won't exactly be difficult.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i'm interested mostly to see your tweaks to the system. i don't particularly care what is run.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So no answer on time zone? There's 4 of them in the US, so knowing which midnight you want to play at could be impacting interest.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So no answer on time zone? There's 4 of them in the US, so knowing which midnight you want to play at could be impacting interest.
My apologies. Not sure how I missed the question. The time zone would be central time.
Of course, voice chat is preferred but not absolute. If I don't get enough vc folks but do pbp folks, then it'll be pbp.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd be interested if it was PbP. VC is a no-go for me...too much work, too many kids, to ever tie myself down to a schedule or for any stretch of time being set aside for gaming. It's the reason why I can't do any in-person gaming anymore.
If it is PbP, I'd like to see the ruleset before making any promises.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I meant to have a summery of the rules yesterday, but had an unusual amount of work to do. Thus, I'll get a summery up tomorrow.
That said, there are some variations I was going to select according to how things turned out. For example, the dice mechanic can be 3 dice similar to 3d6 rules but sized according to stats, which is more fun and intuitive to roll, or 2d[ranks] which is easier to use in electronic rollers such as the one on these boards.
Didn't really want to cause confusion by discussing a bunch of variations (I know from experience that it would). Figured once I knew which campaign to run, I could focus on the ones most suited to that campaign.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Okay,a summery of modifications.
But first, the philosophy I'm following with the design.
Basically, combat-as-war but for everything. The idea is that your choices should be based on the narrative world, and the mechanics serve four main purposes and not at all intended as being the the game itself, notably lacking, mechanics are not supposed to be your list of available options, but the design is supposed to make it easy to handle any choices that are not already covered.
First, the mechanics are about communicating. How strong is your character? Well a strength score is very good for that. The mechanics and DCs are communicating as well. A DC 20 lock is one made by a master and a DC 40 is of legendary difficulty.
Second, dice are about adding risk, tension, and uncertainty. It would not feel right however if the dice didn't take a character's capabilities into account, hence skills and similar being in a form that can be applied to dice easily.
Third, provide consistency. A 20' jump being DC 15 one day and DC 40 the next is terrible. Having a mechanic for it keeps it consistent.
Fourth, provide inspiration.
The mechanics always reference dice ranks as an alternative mechanic exists for electronic rollers such as on this forum, where one rolls 2d[ranks] instead of three dice of various sizes based on stats. Both methods use the ranks and have the same median and maximum values, but the bell curve is slightly different, so they both work but probably shouldn't be mixed.
All checks are discussed in my mechanics as if both sides roll, basically the "players roll all the dice" variant is used except that instead of just being the players all the time, bosses can roll against player rolls making them less predictable and more interesting, and if another situation can be simplified (less back and forth) by changing who rolls, that is an option (I expect players to generally roll unless I am using an ability on the players and rolling against them so I can skip the very bland "Roll me a check so I can tell you what happens next time I log in because I can't continue until I know the result.").
Many of the non-skill checks are now rolled into being skills.
Proficiencies no longer exist. If you are trained in a weapon skill, you are proficient with that weapon.
BAB exists only for martial characters, and acts as an enhancement bonus with weapon attacks, making it a special martial ability. Non-martials can still learn weapon skills and thus gain skill ranks in those weapons. BAB does not stack with magical enhancement bonuses because it is an enhancement bonus from class. Notably BAB goes higher than enhancement bonuses.
Skills are combined Pathfinder style, but can be specialized into more specific skills. I.E. Perception can be specialized into spot and/or listen. In some cases, specializations can be specialized further. For example, (spellcasting is skill based now as well) you can take the spellcraft skill (used to cast a spell) and specialize into a school of magic, and then specialize further into a specific spell.
The reason why one would specialize is found in the advancement section, but basically it the more ranks in a skill, the more costly it becomes and a specialization is cheaper.
Given the application of two ability scores to every check, and the use of ability scores for descriptive purposes, I have made two changes, first, there are twelve ability scores, 3 in four categories. And second, the ability score bonuses are calculated differently.
The original six scores are basically the same except intelligence is clarified a bit.
Body scores,
-Strength
-Dexterity
-Constitution
Mind scores,
-Intelligence: The ability to memorize and recall knowledge, as well as logic and similar.
-Wisdom: Awareness of the non-obvious, of patterns, intuition, etc.
-Creativity: Non-logical thinking, problem-solving, and figuring out the strange and unfamiliar.
Social scores,
-Communication: The ability to communicate well and understand communication.
-Empathy: The ability to understand and connect with other people.
-Charisma: Social magnetism and how gullible or not one is, a low score being gullible and a lack of "respectability."
Soul scores:
-Energy: How energetic a character is. A kid high on sugar is like a high energy score person is all the time.
-Aura: Connection with the world, a low score being an oblivious person.
-Willpower: Self control and mastery, and the ability to stand against external control/influence.
As for bonuses, no more negatives, but grow half as quickly.
Formula is [score-1]/4 round down = bonus.
Thus,
1-4 is a 0 bonus
5-8 is a +1 bonus
9-12 is a +2
13-16 is a +3
17-20 is a +4
...
The levels you get in 3.x/PF1 are Power levels and basically are only the class features.
In between these power levels you gain skill levels which give you skill points.
Both skill and power levels count towards gaining feats and ability score increases.
How many Power levels you have adds to your power stat. This can be adjusted for the campaign, so a gritty campaign might gain few levels, while a power game can start with high Power stat.
Power sets things like CL for magic, how many sneak attack dice one gets, and other such numerical progressions.
Power 1-3 is the kind of stuff you see regularly in the real world. A power 3 chef maxed out is like the chefs you find at a nice restaurant in the real world.
Power 4-5 is the best of the real world, i.e. most Olympic athletes are power 4 with power 5 being the truly legendary people.
Power 15-20 are superheroes and demi-gods.
Naturally, you gain levels a lot faster, but gain levels in classes slower. Basically, 100 levels should be similar to gaining 20 levels in a standard campaign.
That said, classes do not affect which skills you can gain, so you can learn magic skills without being a casting class (why you would be a casting class is described in the magic section), and likewise, a caster can learn combat skills.
Increasing skills and ability scores however have an increasing cost.
Skills cost the next rank in skillpoints to improve and can only add one skillpoint per level. Thus improving a skill from rank 3 to rank 4 costs 4 points and thus 4 levels.
Ability scores similarly cost multiple points, 1+the bonus, thus going from 8 to 9 would cost 3 points since a score of 9 provides a bonus of +2, add 1 and you get the cost of 3.
When gaining a +1 to ability scores every 4 levels, you get +1 point to all three scores of one category (body, mind, social, soul). The above example of needing 3 points to increase to score 9 would take 12 levels, a +1 at levels 4, 8 and 12.
Similar to wounds/vitality.
HP now represents: general and non-specific damage such as blood loss or poison, fatigue and exhaustion, and soul damage. And for NPCs, morale.
You also get a bunch more HP. You get HP equal to your Con score plus Power, an amount known as a benchmark, and a number of benchmarks equal to energy (a character with all 10s for scores would thus have 100 total HP).
Every time your loss of HP equals a benchmark, you take a cumulative -1 to all skillchecks, and NPCs make a morale check. PCs make a fort save against falling unconscious/being disabled. Basically, losing a bunch of benchmarks of HP is like the movie hero that is limping around bleeding, like the end of a Die Hard movie.
When taking a critical hit (instead of increasing damage) or taking damage in excess of a benchmark at once, or reaching a benchmark, you roll a soak roll, your Hit Dice plus armor against the damage taken, if you fail this, you gain an injury.
When you gain an injury, you roll hit location and severity. This is expected to be the primary way of killing or dying.
Magic is skill based. A character makes a skill check to cast a spell. Normally, this also costs HP, however, if a character has spell slots, such as gained from class levels, the slots allow spells to be cast without costing HP, thus the benefit of caster class levels.
Bonus slots come from the Energy score.
Basic metamagics, such as still spell, are available to everyone and increase the skill check DC but not the cost or spell slot level required. Other metamagics require the feat and some may also cost more like a higher level spell, such as twin spell.
The DC of the save for such a spell is based on how high you roll above the casting DC. Thus a DC 20 spell which you roll a 23 to cast has a save DC of 3 + 10 + casting stat bonus. (This is easy to find on electronic rollers by simply subtracting the DC when you make the check, a result of 0 or above is successfully casting the spell, and that result is added to the save DC.) Thus, a better skill at casting makes spells generally harder to resist.
I add a little bit to damage types to make them different in behavior.
Physical damage has Force, and thus if damage multiplied by 10 (shift the decimal, easy no real math), exceeds the weight of a character, then the character is forced backward from the impact and makes a balance check to remain standing. Half that much force and the character is halted from moving forward if they were trying to move somewhere.
Bludgeoning damage is doubled for determining Force, and halved for soak rolls. Hopefully making it a good non-lethal or control option.
Piercing damage is halved for force, and doubled for soak rolls.
Slashing is just even all around.
Energy damages don't cause force except explosive.
Sonic is either tonal or explosive, both are still sonic damage and resisted by sonic resistance. Both are also very loud, having a DC to hear of -10*dmg DC to hear (thus 10 damage has a 0 DC to hear at 1000' away and a DC 10 to hear at 2000' feat, meaning that an outside sonic spell of 10 damage can be heard by ordinary people nearly half a mile away). Sonic never causes specific location damage without extreme circumstances except for the ears. Any injury result that isn't ability damage or blindness/deafness, is con damage instead.
Tonal is half the normal damage listed in the base game, but causes a fort save nausea/disorientation.
Explosive can deal force like a physical damage type, but is always an instant burst/spread type effect that deals full damage at the origin point but the damage reduces by 1 die every 5'.
Fire is actually just heat. It doesn't really penetrate armor as a burst, though it can still ignite flammables. However, most magical defenses, like mage armor and shield, do not block it. Additionally, heat damage reinforces itself over time, so DoT damage, or repeated damage every round actually adds the number of rounds of being hit by fire/heat damage to the damage dealt that round.
Cold works like heat, but instead of bypassing magical defenses, it slows the target, dealing 1 dexterity damage every round.
Electricity deals half the normal damage, and it can only be a line or touch/ranged touch attack. Electric damage requires a fort save against being stunned, and has +10 to reflex save DC to avoid being hit by it (in the case of AoE). Electricity can have other AoE area shapes, but in those cases, it randomly selects spaces in that area to strike, and isn't controllable, though big metal things, like swords, attract the electricity and thus the electricity will be evenly split among all the large conductive objects in the area. Metal weapons attracting electricity damages the wielder, but most heavy armor doesn't, as the under armor layers insulate the target.
Acid/chemical damage is always DoT. The target takes one damage every round for each die of damage, the dice of damage rolling how many rounds that recurring damage lasts multiplied by the normal length of time listed in the spell.
Magic force damage, such as from magic missile, by default acts like bludgeoning damage except counts as magic/spell/etc.
Saves no longer have their class progressions. They are two ability scores plus power. Concentration is a save. Classes with good saves, provide a non-stacking +2 to those saves.
Bab. Full Bab martial classes basically get Bab as a class feature, applying it to any weapon attack they are trained in, and treat this bab as a magical enhancement bonus (no it does not stack with the bonus from weapons). 3/4 bab classes get a +1 bab every 3 class levels. 1/2 bab classes get no bab at all.
Other checks that aren't skill checks, feats, or class/race features, are handled in other ways or just discarded. For example, grapple checks are now an opposed skill check. Concentration checks are the concentration save. Etc.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can't say that I'm understanding this. It sounds like an entirely new system based loosely on pathfinder with a mixture of WFRP (that is, opposed skill and stat checks?)
I think that an example would be helpful.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would prefer PBP since most of us would be learning the new rules.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can't say that I'm understanding this. It sounds like an entirely new system based loosely on pathfinder with a mixture of WFRP (that is, opposed skill and stat checks?)
I think that an example would be helpful.
3.x/pf1 are heavily opposed check based, but it is disguised, as one side is averaged instead of actually rolled in order to make things faster. Anytime you see 10 or 11 plus modifiers in 3.x/pf1, it is an opposed check, the 10s and 11s are the d20 being averaged instead of rolled.
I just made that explicit and without dictating which side is averaged, as it gives greater flexibility to choose who rolls and who takes a static value depending on situation. It also lets things get more exciting by allowing meaningful enemies, such as bosses, roll as well as the players.
I.E. in a live game, having players roll AC makes things easier on me, but in pbp, me rolling against player static AC means I don't have to make a post, wait for a response, then give my response in order to move forward. Likewise with saves.
So that part really isn't that big of a rules change. There is even a whole section of the 3.x Unearthed Arcana book about that as a variant rule.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/playersRollAllTheDice.htm
The bigger change in this regard is not the opposed checks, but in making things skills that used to not be. For example, attack rolls is it's own thing in 3.x/pf1 with it's own power scaling, it's own progression, etc. By making it a skill, it simplifies things a bit because progression and number scaling is the same as any other skill.
Also, some of these designs are because I aim to eventually go classless entirely, but making feat trees for all the classes is exhausting and I'm nowhere near finished with that yet. Besides, some claim to prefer classes because they get lost on what to do in a classless system, so when I had the idea of power levels, I decided to go with it and see how it turns out. But that still leaves a lot of other design aspects that work separately from classes because they aren't intended to be tied to a class progression, namely, bab, saves, proficiencies, class skills, etc, are all gone or altered.
So, an example is making an attack. The actual check works basically like in pf1, but how the numbers are derived is slightly different. Thus, you roll three dice (Tier plus two ability scores, str and dex for most melee and bow/thrown attacks, or dex and awa for crossbows and similar) then add your skill to the result. Enhancement bonuses get added if they applied.
The opponent then rolls (or takes the average value) AC, three dice (including dex and awa) and then add their skill and armor if any to the result.
Thus, a fighter making an attack might roll 1d8+2d4+3 vs 1d8+2d4+5. Or the electronic version of that would be 2d8+3 vs 2d8+5. Either the attacker or the defender could use the average roll as a static value.
Does that answer the question?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Currently,
Campaign ideas presented,
1. A gritty grungy campaign of seedy underworld of wheeling and dealing missions outside the law and living dangerously. So far as I understand it anyway.
2. A kingdom on the high seas, now with pirates! (I have neither played Kingmaker, nor have the books, so I'd be making that part up as I went along)
3. Shadowrun. No idea what this really means, as shadowrun can be so very different to different players, probably just a sci-fi/fantasy crossover version of option 1 though.
1 vote against VC, no comment from others on that front.
======
Thus, I present these two campaign ideas for consideration, nothing is finalized yet.
A) In my setting, there are divine dungeons intended as tests. They come in a variety of sizes and difficulties, and the layout is different every time they are entered. At the end of the harder dungeons come magic items which are better, though not always more powerful, than mortal made items. Sometimes they can even do things mortals can't replicate. These items are irreplaceable and very expensive. The more powerful dungeons often cities built around them with access carefully controlled, which does not always stop unauthorized access. The criminal underworld often values such magic items even more than the legitimate powers do. When they can't get items from the dungeon directly, they often resort to theft or other methods to acquire such items.
This campaign can easily cover dungeon-delving as well as dealing with underworld elements, and players can focus on one or the other or even do a bit of both.
This setting is very unique however, low level magic is everywhere, but it is limited in capability and almost never permanent. The cosmology is very different, there is only one goddess, who was once mortal herself, though a few demi-gods exist. Humans are rare though.
B) Same setting as above but in an outer plane, my version of the abyss, a plane that is a ring shaped bottomless pit, in which digging through the outer wall of rock eventually just connects to the inner wall of rock further up the pit. The players would be freshly dead souls, as are all things in the outer planes, but survival to avoid permanent removal from existence is still a struggle. In these outer planes, souls tend to slowly change appearance based on their inner selves, thus evil people eventually become demons and devils, while good people eventually becomes angels or similar, but most people are in-between. Still, growth is difficult, requiring more than simply experience and practice, those who desire to have more magical power require absorbing soul energy and such from others, making deals for your soul a lot worse than merely serving a master for eternity. This campaign is heavy on the survival aspects of a really dark world where sin the norm, and beings will desire to consume your very existence.
C) Technology based on magic, starting to explore between planets, each solar system is unique, and some are filled with air and other things, making for a large expanse of new wonders in need of being explored. Very sea like but of course 3d, and islands are more asteroids instead. But this time period in the above setting is when exploration is just starting, a few colonies are starting up in various places and thus dependent on shipping for supplies and not much of a real navy yet to secure the trade lanes. Unlike real space, there are airborne forests, airborne creatures both good and terrible, and other environments rather than just a void, but just as big and without gravity. Don't fall off the ship, or you'll be falling for a very, very long time.
Thoughts? Comments? Or further questions?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Tanky Fighter PC: Str14, longsword, plate, heavy shield, Lvl 2 with power attack, furious focus, weapon focus
Attack: +2 BaB +2 Str +1 WF +1 MW = +6
Defense: +9 Armor +1 Dex +2 Shield = +12
Sneaky NPC Rogue: Dagger, buckler, chain shirt
Attack: +1 BaB +4 Dex +1 WF +1 MW = +7
Defense: +4 Armor +4 Dex +1 Shield = +9
Attack misses
Is this right under the rules?
As for campaigns, A and B sound good. A has classic dungeon delving, and I like common low magic and rare high. B? It’s very unique. Being a soul that is changing isn’t something I’ve seen before. I’d be down for either. But I really think, given how much work the GM does, the campaign itself should be foe the GM to decide
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's just a summery, so the little details were not all listed out. Typing on phone takes too long for that. I'll need my laptop to type out everything.
PC races have a d8 (common person) to a d12 (Legendary person) in place of the d20. I call this the tier die. Then ability scores provide additional dice. Str 14 for example, gives a d6.
Thus,
Tanky Fighter PC:
Total Lvl 6: Fighter 1, basic 5
Skills:
Combat 3
-Combat (Hvy Blades) 1
Defense 3
-Defense (Plate Armor) 1
-Defense (Shield) 1
Feats:
Weapon Focus
(ignoring the other to simplify)
Str 14 d6
Dex 11 d4
Con 7 d2
Awa 12 d4
Attack: d8 tier + d6 str + d4 dex +3 combat +1 combat (hvy blades) +1 wf -2 shield.
Defense melee: d8 tier + d4 dex + d4 awa +3 defense +1 defense (plate armor or shield) +8 full plate armor +2 hvy shield.
Defense ranged: d8 tier + d4 dex + d4 awa +3 defense +1 defense (shield) +8 full plate armor +4 hvy shield (shields doubled vs ranged).
Damage: d8 longsword + d6 str
Soak: d10 hit die + d2 con +8 full plate armor.
NPC rogue,
Atk: 14
Defense: 13
Soak: 7
Thus,
Beats rogue's defense of 13
Damage of 4 is less than rogue's soak of 7, so rogue loses 4 hp but does not take an injury.
Is this clearer?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am indeed familiar with SW. I was using 3d6 in dnd at the time I first played SW, and mixing 3d6 with SW's dice based on stats, was my earliest mod that I still use.
This is fundamentally still d20, you add dice together for a single value which has a meaning beyond success vs failure. SW is more like multiple chances to get a success which has no meaning at all beyond being a success.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is... Interesting o.o
Not gonna lie, your system isn't intuitive at all for me, I was Hella confused until I read the examples carefully, now I kinda grasp the basic concepts.
As for ideas how about of a group of recently ascended mortals in axis or other planar city trying to establish themselves as full deities? They'll be more akin to Demigods or adventurers with a bunch of mythic power than actual Gods but can already grant Magic to their clerics and so on but individually are an easy prey for evil deities or others who want to steal their divine sparks like Besmara...
I think it may be fun for each God to create their own legends, teachings and so on to gain followers and increase their power.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Played in a demigod campaign once. It was fun while it lasted (had a pc healer-paladin whose gimmick was taking the pain and wounds of others). Look forward to seeing the build rules
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Been following along, and while I had a few campaign suggestions of my own, the ones the GM suggested all sound pretty neat. *Especially* the transforming souls one.
Bloodrive's idea also sounds super awesome as well.
As for your rules, they seem a bit complicated, and confusing, but also really interesting. I think pbp will help as it will allow players time to understand and get used to them.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Clearly I need to work on clarity. :)
Still, I've gotten far more interest than I expected.
I'm going to therefore ask for a vote from all interested players, so we can be sure who all will be joining in.
Please list the top two ideas presented (by either me or others) that you want to play, and whether you are willing to do vc or exclusively pbp (I'll consider running a pbp and vc, but I'm not certain yet).
Also, list any ideas presented that you srongly oppose playing in.
Wednesday is deadline for choosing the campaign, unless everyone responds sooner, but session 0 (because I'll work with everyone individually to get integrated into the story hook and character building) will start in earnest after the new year, with ideas and concepts being worked on as time permits prior, not expecting much time prior to the new year though.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
PbP only
Choice 1: Transforming souls (its unique!)
Choice 2: Divine Dungeons (GM’s setting is like the GM having a character. Always a plus)
Choice 3: Anything involving the darklands (It is highly underutilized. When was the last time a campaign was set there?)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I say PbP, I don't really do vc or similar...
Choice 1: Transforming souls, because it is your setting and will be easier to run and it sounds Hella interesting too.
Choice 2: Nascent Demigods, because is my idea and am obviously biased :)
Choice 3: Since no one mentioned anything similar... Why not Dark Souls? Super dark, gritty, edgy, medieval, survival and all that fighting against crazily overwhelming monsters, we may as well make it in the darklands
Also... How about something with castlevania?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
GMDarkLightHitomi said : "SW is more like multiple chances to get a success which has no meaning at all beyond being a success."
That's incorrect. SW has Critical Failures, Failures, Successes, and "Raises", which is essentially a Critical Success - something extra good happens.
SW is a very streamlined system : one die type for any roll, and players roll an extra d6 for that "multiple chances of success" you mentioned.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Forgot to mention the ideas I don't like:
Pirates/kingmaker: just not feeling it, Pirates isn't my favorite flavor and while I like Kingdom making doing it as pirates just doesn't work for my x.x
Divine Dungeon: I don't like the concept and neither am a fan of dungeon crawling.
Neutral: Aether exploring in the space sounds fun but to be honest that would be Starfinder for me and Shadowrun is... Okayish, as already mentioned it has many flavors.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Top choice: Transforming souls.
Second choice: Nascent demigods.
A potential 3rd choice: Since Grumbaki mentioned it above, I would love a game set in either the Darklands of Golarion or the Underdark of Faerun, where we play as drow, dealing with house politics, invading other territories/the surface, etc.
Could even make it part Kingmaker as well.
VC or PBP: Play by post, maybe via discord? or with discord adjacent?
Opposed: I'm not actually against any of the other ideas presented, but my desire to play in them is much, much lower.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For the darklands it could be combined with the pirate one. Have it take place in Delvingulf. The PCs are merchants/privateers who work for a noble house. It has house politics, raiding, dungeon delving…and it can be open to any darklands race.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
GMDarkLightHitomi said : "SW is more like multiple chances to get a success which has no meaning at all beyond being a success."
That's incorrect. SW has Critical Failures, Failures, Successes, and "Raises", which is essentially a Critical Success - something extra good happens.
SW is a very streamlined system : one die type for any roll, and players roll an extra d6 for that "multiple chances of success" you mentioned.
You missed my meaning here.
In 3.x, and to a lesser extent pf1, when you make a checkm it tell you how well you performed independently from whether it was good enough to succeed. For example, getting a skill check result of 20 means you performed as well as a master, even if you failed the check.
SW is different. SW is pure meta for check results. Getting a 4 is a success regardless of what that means narratively because it has no narrative meaning, it is purely mechanical. On the one hand this is open canvas to decide what that success means, but on the other hand, it gives neither guidance nor consistency to results.
In 3.x/pf1, the mechanics are a bit like the grid on gridpaper, you can draw however you want, but the grid provides a stable and objective reference to help your drawing match your vision.
Whether that grid is useful or bothersome depends on the kind of play you want. I personally find that grid as the only reason to even bother with mechanics at all, without it, I'll just play freeform.
I'll play other systems for the learning experience, but any system that doesn't provide that objective reference grid is not something I want to play a full game with.
SW doesn't have that grid because it is focused on the meta. It is looking at the game at a different level, giving direction on writing the narrative without saying much about the narrative. That's in part why it is so streamlined. If you leave it to the players/gm to decide what "vague" check results, like success, failure, or critical, actually mean to the narrative, then you are taking a load off the mechanics, making it easier to simplify them. But that burden is shifted to the players and/or gm. Some players simply don't care and ignore those aspects and therefore are fine with this, but others do care and therefore need to deal with tjose aspects of play in one way or another. I am a player/gm that does care.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm noticing a lot of support for the spirits campaign. Are we sure it's Christmas and not Halloween? :)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm noticing a lot of support for the spirits campaign. Are we sure it's Christmas and not Halloween? :)
It's the Nightmare Before Christmas, lol
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'll put in an interest in trying homebrewed systems! I've tried making a few myself and I know the work that goes into it.
I really like transforming souls, that sounds very cool, and way more up my ally than pirates. Being a demigod sounds very neat as well, but also probably works better in more modular systems such as GURPS. I mean, I guess we could say that a tier die represents higher limits beyond mortal comprehension, but... I dunno. Spooky spirits gets my vote.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
...when you make a check, it tells you how well you performed independently from whether it was good enough to succeed. For example, getting a skill check result of 20 means you performed as well as a master, even if you failed the check.SW is different. SW is pure meta for check results. Getting a 4 is a success regardless of what that means narratively because it has no narrative meaning, it is purely mechanical.
I'm sorry, but I don't see the difference. In both systems a higher roll is better, and it is compared to a threshold number to determine whether the player succeeded or not.
Is your complaint that the threshold number of 4 in SW is so low that you can't "perform like a master" and still fail? In PF1, if you rolled very high and failed, then the threshold number was very large due to the circumstances. You can implement that in SW by applying a circumstantial penalty of -6 or -8 to the roll, effectively raising the threshold from 4 to 10 or 12. Then a high roll would still fail.
Also, I played PF1 for several years, and as far as I can remember (it was a while ago) there's no guidelines built-in to the rules as to how to narrate a success or failure. It's always up to the GM to describe what happens based on the roll and threshold number, in both PF1 and SW.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The difference is subtle and largely impacts one's approach to the game and standards of what makes a good game. I'm still figuring out how to properly present it.
Step 1,
There is a difference between form and function. For example, in the old computer game Balduer's Gate Dark Alliance, a table was a table only in form, it did not function like a table, being neither flammable nor breakable etc, rather it instead functioned like a low wall.
Step 2,
Now consider that function can be meta or milieu based. If you were playing chess but gave a name to each piece and wrote a story about the game but still played the game according to the rules of chess, then the form of the pawn would be that of a person, but the function would be that of a chess piece.
Step 3,
Now consider the functionality of stats and checks in SW vs 3.x. In SW, the function is entirely about the out of game rules. In 3.x, the chevk result is about the functionality within the milieu. A result of 20 does not dictate success or failure, it dictates the character's performance in-world, and that level of performance may or may not be enough to achieve their goal based on the in-world functionality.
SW has no connection to the in-world functionality. It is a purely mechanical meta-game determination of success, of which the gm then needs to decide how and why the character succeeded or failed with no guidelines.
In 3.x, the gm still needs to decide the how and why of success/failure, but the check results and DCs establish in-world landmarks of meaning to act as guidelines on developing those hows and whys.
Paizo never understood this, and so the adjustments they made for pf1 shifted away from this capacity. It is still pretty close because it is just a mod for 3.x, but still a shift.
Is this more understandable?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As my setting and the transforming souls game seems the most likely at this point,
There is one major deity, The Allmother Emanon, and she is an active god, but there are a number of demigods.
IC excerpts from the church:
Book of creation,
"Long ago, all the worlds were destroyed, and the Allmother stood alone against the consuming evil, so she took the power of the dead gods and used it to defeat the evil, stealing it's power bit by bit till it was no more and she was left alone in the nothing.
With the enemy defeated, she set about remaking all of creation according to her own design."
The peoples,
"To the seven peoples across the nine realms, the Allmother gave gifts.
To the elves she gifted skillfullness, grace, and pride.
To the kobolds she gifted perseverance, mental fortitude, and wrath.
To the dwarves she gifted insight, toughness, and greed.
To the goblins she gifted numbers, fearlessness, and envy.
To the dragons she gifted prowess, magic, and sloth.
To the darklings she gifted curiousity, power, and gluttony.
To the children of Drunin and Elelabeth, the humans, she granted diversity, adaptability, and lust."
OOC
I know I listed sins as gifts, this is because a major religious facet is the idea that greatness and worth come from mastering one's weaknesses and failings, and using that to overcoming obstacles. Suffering and evil is the soil in which all good things grow. Thus, religion teaches that everyone is supposed to face their failings and overcome.
The sins listed as gifts are found in all races, but are particularly iconic of the races listed above. Elves are very prideful, dwarves greedy, etc.
Further, to become a priest/shamem/etc, the Allmother has a test to be passed. The priest to be gets infected with lycanthropy and they must master the beast and gain control of it, then they must enter one of the divine dungeons of sufficient depth/difficulty and finish it without using the beast at all. Only then are they accepted as priests. Priests are thus highly respected, powerful, and feared.
That said, mastering lycanthropy does not need to make one a priest.
Lycanthropy is not rampant, but most who get infected never master it, and can be driven mad by their guilt and fear and other feelings that come from their failing to master the beast, sometimes even giving up entirely and letting the beast win, thus becoming a problem.
---
There are many other minor races, and many of the above races have various subraces, some of which have become so different as to be almost their own race.
Notably, orcs are a type of goblin. Halflings are a type of human. Catdragons are a type of darkling (both of these are entirely my own creation).
These races are recognizable as such, but their history, culture, and some minor traits are very different.
There is a story to the creation of humans. In the early days of creation, a dwarf and elf fell in love but couldn't have kids for obvious reasons. Both being well-known and powerful members of their community, collected many priests together to beg the Allmother for children. The Allmother was inspired when the possibilities for children reminded her of humans from before the worlds were destroyed, so she recreated humans and gave them as children to dwarf and elf couple.
An elf and dwarf together always have human children, and so sometimes humans are known as dwelfs.
Kobolds and goblins are known as original races and thus have a certain legitimacy religiously speaking, but goblins of all sorts have remained largely barbaric with very few individuals ever joining the more civilized societies, and are often considered as failures as a race.
Kobolds have many barbarian tribes, but also many civilized ones. But many dislike dealing with kobolds, and kobolds are well known for over-reacting to provocation and many villages have been destroyed for insulting kobolds. Thus, they are a bit of a wildcard, in many places there is a tenuous peace and even trade, but also very common to encounter them as enemies.
---
Much of the cosmology of planes will be something for you to learn in game, but here is some common knowledge in-world, which may not be entirely correct.
The stars are different worlds, of which nine are the favored realms and first of the stars to be made. These worlds are material worlds.
The dead can't exist on material worlds without an anchor of some sort. Anchoring the dead to the world is usually evil, but a rare few accept this willingly, despite being considered a great sacrifice, including the famed Dreadwraiths, a military unit serving the empire of Sarvolka and regarded as the most terrible unit to face.
Once the dead have been separated from their body, nothing known can fix that, except a ancient myths claiming it is possible, which are generally regarded as false mythology.
---
There are the spirit realms, where many fantastic and dreadful things reside, including demons and angels.
Angels and demons are usually regarded as mythical, but some point out the existance of spirits as proof other such beings can exist, this is the stereotypical debate topic among theologians. There are a number of sayings about scholars proving demons exist.
---
They say the spirit realms are as many and varied. A few notable ones considered destinations after death. The abyss is a prison realm for the evil. The beads are floating paradise islands for the good. And the arena where warriors go to become champions.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Interesting lore. Not common to see monotheism, but it works well. Also I like having humans being dwelfs. Given how mankind really does sit right in the middle of elves and dwarves, it works.
As for the lycanthropy, it makes me think that the lycanthropy and wolf scarred face curses would be pretty common for oracles
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I actually played the goddess in a campaign once where the players were the last remaining gods after the world was destroyed with a limited non-replenishing pool of divine power. Didn't get far sadly. But I basically took my pc from that game and imagined what she'd do if she was successful but the last god standing. Eventually that turned into this setting.
Emanon herself was a once a mortal, a natural born were-tiger drow. I was still in the phase of making snowflake characters at the time, in case it wasn't obvious. :)
But I wanted her story to continue, and this world is her creation, and it reflects her story, history, and principles.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I understand what you're saying, I just disagree that there's any essential conceptual difference between 3.x and SW mechanics. Both roll a die with modifiers, and compare it to a "target number" (TN). No matter the die result, if you roll above the TN you succeed, if you roll below it, you fail. Both systems have Critical Failures and Critical Successes. In both systems, the roll and the TN can guide the GM in the in-game narrative of what happened (because in both systems, a higher die roll is "better").
I'm going to take a guess here, and say that it's that the TN is "always" 4 in SW that bothers you. But in combat, the TN to hit can be any number, and the TN to do damage likewise. And as I said before, you can consider modifiers to the roll as instead modifying the TN, so that a -4 penalty is equivalent to an un-modified die roll vs. a TN of 8. There is no "fixed" TN in SW!
As an example of using the die roll and TN to provide narrative, if you swing at an enemy and your roll is less than his TN-to-hit, the GM can say "your blade glances off his armor" or "he dodges nimbly out of the way of your attack". How is this any different than what you could say in 3.X? And since the TN-to-hit could be any number (typically 4 to 12), you could still roll very high ("like a master") and miss.
But I'm repeating myself at this point, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If you wish to continue this discussion, you'll have to tell me exactly what it is about the SW mechanics that makes you say it has no connection to the in-world functionality.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Remove success/failure from check, what is left?
In SW nothing is left.
In d20, ignoring success/failure, you still have descriptive material to work with to inspire your description of results. Sure, you can ignore it if you want, but it is still there when you do want or need it.
There is an alexandrian article about the meaning of numbers, maybe that'll help.
https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-y our-expectations-2
The structure itself makes it easier to figure out what
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You have the number that you rolled (plus mods), which the GM could use to interpret the narrative of your success or failure. Just because the SW rules don't say to do this doesn't mean you can't if you want to.
If, with a TN of 4, you rolled a 6, the GM would offer a typical/average success result narrative.
If, with a -4 mod to the roll, you still rolled a 6 (so the die value was 10), the GM could offer a narrative where you succeeded despite great odds.
And if with the -4 your total was 9 (so the die value was 13), which is a "Raise" (equivalent to a Critical Success), he could offer a narrative where you not only succeeded, but you did so extraordinarily well even in a difficult situation that something extra or special happened ("like a master").
If with a -6 mod, you rolled a 3 (so the die value was 9), he could describe how you made a valiant effort, and almost made it, but ultimately failed.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
After reading the above lore, I gotta say, I'm pretty hype and excited to see the full recruitment!
Would it be possible to combine the transforming souls concept with Bloodrive's nascent gods, but instead of starting out that way, it's something we work towards in game? Or is not possible for their to be more demigods(As I assume there's only ever going to be one full fledged deity in the Allmother)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
After reading the above lore, I gotta say, I'm pretty hype and excited to see the full recruitment!
Would it be possible to combine the transforming souls concept with Bloodrive's nascent gods, but instead of starting out that way, it's something we work towards in game? Or is not possible for their to be more demigods(As I assume there's only ever going to be one full fledged deity in the Allmother)
Interesting! Such as…souls being chosen as potential replacements for dead Gods. Now that would be awesome. Where the background for the lvl1 souls should be suitably heroic for replacing a dead God.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is possible for there to be more demigods, but that is the highest the Allmother allows, and that is something that would take a very long time to achieve. It wouldn't happen after a handful of adventures, and such a character is unlikely to be doing much on their own aside from being a leader of some sort and reaping the rewards of their underling's work.
This is actually the driving force of the outer plane's politics and machinations. There are the game worlds, but that is dangerous and risky and only goes so far (and basically unreachable from the abyss).
Beyond that is trying to trick, steal, or kill others for their power, and you need a vast amount of it to become a demigod, which takes something else that must be figured out and discovered on one's own. The Allmother actually removes the memory of it from those that succeed, allowing only those that figure it out themselves, or that she herself raised to the point of demigod (which she has done for her greatest servants).
Thus those who might become demigods are generally the sorts of characters that are basically the lords/ladies, crime bosses, demon lords, whatever the angel version of a demon lord is, etc. It is a goal for a character after several AP-length campaigns, or basically starting out at that very high level.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Would you like us to do stuff in this thread, start another, etc?