Paizo, it's time for a change.

[Yoshua]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

I think Yoshua is confusing the issue here. What I gathered was that banning people was complicated, due to the store-forum linkage, and Tonya refused to take action to find a workaround until the CSRs pushed her on it.

Nah. I wasn't confused but you hit the nail on the head.

I don't care if it is tied to someones purchasing ability. If you give someone free reign to abuse someone else based on their sexual orientation or gender identity because you are afraid of losing the abusers business it tells me plainly what the priority is.

[Diego Valdez]

Bans remove a persons access to everything, including purchased PDFs. Suspensions only remove access to the forums. Suspensions are usually timed. But the timing has to be set, if it is not the suspension is indefinite until manually lifted. If the concern was that banned posters wouldn’t have access to purchased PDFs anymore a permanent suspension does the same thing while leaving PDF access.

[Yoshua]

Well Diego that doesn't sound very complicated at all. Also sounds like anyone moderating the forums would have that knowledge to some degree.

So this 'found a way' today sounds like an excuse for why it wasn't implemented even though it was known by the team. Fact that you are telling me the team has been advocating for it and being overruled until today makes me sick to my stomach.

Man, I appreciate that you walked when you did. The more I hear the more I totally understand. I wish someone on the inside was empowered to look out for the community though instead of empowered to keep the company safe from it.

[YawarFiesta]

Diego Valdez wrote:

Bans remove a persons access to everything, including purchased PDFs. Suspensions only remove access to the forums. Suspensions are usually timed. But the timing has to be set, if it is not the suspension is indefinite until manually lifted. If the concern was that banned posters wouldn’t have access to purchased PDFs anymore a permanent suspension does the same thing while leaving PDF access.

Why not issue indefinite suspension instead of bannings?

Humbly,
Yawar

[Kobold Catgirl]

That's what they're saying they do now--Tonya was just apparently resistant to it.

[thejeff]

YawarFiesta wrote:

Diego Valdez wrote:

Bans remove a persons access to everything, including purchased PDFs. Suspensions only remove access to the forums. Suspensions are usually timed. But the timing has to be set, if it is not the suspension is indefinite until manually lifted. If the concern was that banned posters wouldn’t have access to purchased PDFs anymore a permanent suspension does the same thing while leaving PDF access.

Why not issue indefinite suspension instead of bannings?

That's kind of the point. That's the obvious solution the customer service workers were pushing, but Tonya seems to have been resisting.

That said, this should never be an issue. Burn this web software to the ground, salt the earth and replace it with an off the shelf package that doesn't get in the way of doing the job.

[Raychael Allor]

Yoshua wrote:

So this 'found a way' today sounds like an excuse for why it wasn't implemented even though it was known by the team.

Just a tiny clarification, most of us (CS) were unaware this was the case (suspension vs. banning). Likely due to the fact that our moderation training was limited (big focus was on our email backlog, for obvious reasons) and we were only really getting into adding it to our tasks when all this kicked off. *insert upside down smiling emoji*

[Kobold Catgirl]

You all deserved and continue to deserve literal worlds better than this. <3

[Yoshua]

Raychael wrote:

Yoshua wrote:

So this 'found a way' today sounds like an excuse for why it wasn't implemented even though it was known by the team.

Just a tiny clarification, most of us (CS) were unaware this was the case (suspension vs. banning). Likely due to the fact that our moderation training was limited (big focus was on our email backlog, for obvious reasons) and we were only really getting into adding it to our tasks when all this kicked off. *insert upside down smiling emoji*

Good background knowledge. I wish you guys weren't down the 2 resident experts that would have been a tremendous help during troubling times.

Appreciate everything you do Raychael and never thought it was the team that wouldn't advocate for the customers :D

[Raychael Allor]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

You all deserved and continue to deserve literal worlds better than this. <3

I'm just so sorry we weren't aware of this beforehand! <3

Please give all your love and support to Heather and Logan; they've done a lot more than I have in regard to forum moderation (it's not my area of expertise, to say the least, and I didn't want to make things worse) and pushing for ways to better the community within our limited (although not as limited as we thought) capacity.

[The-Magic-Sword]

Raychael wrote:

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

You all deserved and continue to deserve literal worlds better than this. <3

I'm just so sorry we weren't aware of this beforehand! <3

Please give all your love and support to Heather and Logan; they've done a lot more than I have in regard to forum moderation (it's not my area of expertise, to say the least, and I didn't want to make things worse) and pushing for ways to better the community within our limited (although not as limited as we thought) capacity.

We're grateful to have all of your best, the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.

[Diego Valdez]

Yoshua wrote:

I wish you guys weren't down the 2 resident experts that would have been a tremendous help during troubling times.

Tonya has had moderator privileges for years in her role as OPF and has interacted with those tools for years. There is no reason she shouldn’t know this. Forgot? Sure. Didn’t know? No. And even if she didn’t she should have investigated options. It shouldn’t take her team, after weeks of asking for solutions, deciding they don’t care if bigots lose access to PDFs and accidentally discovering it.

[Cori Marie]

Diego I really appreciate your insights over the last couple of days. You're sorely missed.

[Skele Tor]

Diego Valdez wrote:

Bans remove a persons access to everything, including purchased PDFs. Suspensions only remove access to the forums. Suspensions are usually timed. But the timing has to be set, if it is not the suspension is indefinite until manually lifted. If the concern was that banned posters wouldn’t have access to purchased PDFs anymore a permanent suspension does the same thing while leaving PDF access.

Glad to know Gorbacz was never banned, as some have implied here or there! He has been merely stuck in a limbo of suspended animation, yet fully aware of his surroundings. Legends have it that when the stars are right and the days are counted, he shall no longer be lost in time and space, and will walk the information superhighway once again...

Skele Tor will return next week with more disturbing facts.

[MadamReshi]

Wildly off topic, I know, but at this stage someone has to PM me the lore behind Gorbacz.

But seconding Cori's comment.

I am glad there is a mechanism to properly deal with bigotry and other awful users.

[Kobold Catgirl]

You are only witnessing but one tip of one finger of a beast that dwells beyond our comprehension.

EDIT: I said what I said.

[Totally Not Gorbacz]

Still can't stop laughing about how Tonya's desire to become the Directrix of Community set off a chain of events that's leading to said community imploding. It's almost Shakespearean, climbing the mountain of imaginary power only to discover that the mountain is naught but ash.

[Anorak]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Still can't stop laughing about how Tonya's desire to become the Directrix of Community set off a chain of events that's leading to said community imploding. It's almost Shakespearean, climbing the mountain of imaginary power only to discover that the mountain is naught but ash.

Not to get hocus-pocus, but I've had this sort of thing happen to me when I choose a path the Universe dislikes. It is a good sign that you done messed up, AA RON!

[Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti]

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

[Yoshua]

Anyone in management who is new to the position and sees someone who has any tenure, like even 5 years I would say, as redundant and not a valuable resource is just mind boggling to me.

[Master Han Del of the Web]

Regardless, institutional knowledge is a thing and if someone's role is rendered redundant by an org-chart alteration, you are frequently better served by retaining that person and finding a new role for them in the company. At the very least it allows you to keep that institutional knowledge on hand.

The way this has been handled just reeks of an ill-conceived power grab.

[Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti]

Ill conceived and inept