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The allies get the benefit of the feat, but it doesn't say that it works even if the ally lacks the feat requisites.
If I was the GM I would say that they get the feat, but when they activate it they get nothing if they haven't any level in an arcane spellcasting class. Same thing with power attack and having less than 13 in strength.
My opinion is questionable, as the War chant gives the allies the benefit of the feat, and abilities with a limited number of daily uses consume the Dwarven Scholar uses.
The problem is that any interpretation has some questionable aspect. Your GM should decide what fits better for his campaign.
Just give non-casters the Caster's Champion feat instead of Arcane Strike. It may not be official, but it works.
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This gets really messy when you try to drill down into the logic of how any given feat would function. In order to make the ability function, I would just rule that all variables are determined by the statistics of the dwarven scholar.
But then the next paragraph goes on to say the scholar can grant two feats at a time. And that one can be used as a prerequisite for the other. Hold on now, would I have to have granted Improved Unarmed Strike as one feat so that I could grant Stunning Fist? If so, why did you put Stunning Fist in the "grant one feat" section?
Stunning Fist is actually the perfect feat to use as an example. But the author needed to go into a lot more depth about whether or not the prereqs are required, what happens if one ally meets prereqs but another doesn't, how the DC is set, and so on.
War Chant (Su): At 1st level, a dwarven scholar can use her performance to inspire the martial prowess of the ancient dwarves in her allies. The dwarven scholar selects a single combat feat she knows. Allies affected by this performance gain the benefit of this feat for as long as the performance is maintained. To be affected, an ally must be able to perceive the dwarven scholar’s performance. If a combat feat has a daily use limitation (such as Stunning Fist), any uses of that combat feat by the dwarven scholar’s allies while using this ability counts toward the dwarven scholar’s feat’s daily limit.At 6th level, the dwarven scholar may grant the benefit of two combat feats at the same time. She may use one of these feats to meet a prerequisite of the second feat. Maintaining two feats in this way requires spending 2 rounds of bardic performance every round.
While this ability is written like absolute poop, I believe the intent is that your ally must satisfy prerequisites for any feat you give your ally.
RAW though, it seems like one might be able to make the argument that you wouldn't have to meet any prerequisites for the first feat you give your ally, but you would for the second feat. And honestly, that's absurd.
I think there will be less arguing if you require prerequisites for any feat you give to your allies. Otherwise, you'll run into situations where your fighter doesn't have any Cleave feats, but you can give the fighter Great Cleave or Improved Cleaving Finish as a first feat. And that's straight up broken.
- RAW: Everyone gets the benefits, and everyone can use it, but only those with a caster level get more than +1. Caster level from divine or psychic casting work does work.
The ability say you gain the benefits of a feat, which is what's written in the benefits section. This has both upsides, as it ignores prereqs, and downsides, as teamwork feats don't work at all.
If the party members would simply gain the feats (which would include needing to meet the prereqs to use it), teamwork feats suddenly becoem very potent, especially since they would even count allies not meeting the prereqs (as even though such an ally couldn't use the feat, they'd still be "an ally who also has this feat").
Saying the allies need the prereqs yet still don't count as having the feat would be the cleanest solution... yet a significant nerf from the written text. With what Belafon pointed out, I'd be hesitant to simply just use that as a houseruling.
Otherwise, you'll run into situations where your fighter doesn't have any Cleave feats, but you can give the fighter Great Cleave or Improved Cleaving Finish as a first feat. And that's straight up broken.
Improved Cleaving Finish wouldn't work (it only modifies Cleaving Finish and does nothing without that one), and considering how Great Cleave is aviable via Ranger Combat Style at 6th level, the devs don't seem to consider getting it without prereqs to be too strong.
Even something like Cleaving Finish doesn't seem all that broken, since the dwarven scholar has to actually *know* the feat being granted. If someone wants to buy the whole Cleave chain, or Stunning Fist and all its prerequisites on a bard, I don't think the party is likely ending up more powerful in the aggregate.
With something like Arcane Strike, too, it seems to me like most times you'd be better off as a vanilla bard with inspire courage. Ultimately you're trading *all* the hit bonus for being a point or two ahead on the damage bonus, and it costs a bunch of swift actions to boot, and the to-hit bonus is by far the more valuable part of inspire courage.
So I guess I'm saying I'd be plenty generous on what I allow with this ability, because it's likely not worth what they gave up to get it in the first place.
Even something like Cleaving Finish doesn't seem all that broken, since the dwarven scholar has to actually *know* the feat being granted. If someone wants to buy the whole Cleave chain, or Stunning Fist and all its prerequisites on a bard, I don't think the party is likely ending up more powerful in the aggregate.
With something like Arcane Strike, too, it seems to me like most times you'd be better off as a vanilla bard with inspire courage. Ultimately you're trading *all* the hit bonus for being a point or two ahead on the damage bonus, and it costs a bunch of swift actions to boot, and the to-hit bonus is by far the more valuable part of inspire courage.
So I guess I'm saying I'd be plenty generous on what I allow with this ability, because it's likely not worth what they gave up to get it in the first place.
The GreatCleave/ImpCF example is a metaphor for all end-of-chain feats. The main issue you're going to run into as a GM and allowing feats to be distributed via War Chant to characters that don't have the prerequisites is that you can go straight to the end of feat chains and have them be highly usable without their prerequisites. Like Medusa's Wrath, Step Up & Strike, Monastic Legacy, Ascetic Strike (and certain other end-chain Style feats that don't require you to be in the style to use, like Pummeling Charge or Startoss Comet), Greater Vital Strike, Combat Patrol, Greater Any Combat Maneuver, Greater Blind Fight, Exhausting Critical, Teleport Tactician, Shatter Defenses, Spell Perfection, etc.
To allow the first feat to eschew prerequisites opens the door to abuse.
The *bard* still has to meet the prerequisites, though, which limits the impact of many of those feat capstones to the late campaign, and also impacts their own build heavily. Heck, in many of the APs they'd never even be able to pick Greater Vital Strike, for example, because they end before level 16 (when the bard would first be able to buy it, and even then only with a dip to something with a bonus feat, since the bard's first feat where it meets the prereqs on a single-class build is 17.)
So many of those things you listed are for pretty niche situations or would only likely be useful to one other character in a typical party. From the whole list, maybe Shatter Defenses would be a bit tough to deal with at times? Spell Perfection isn't a combat feat in the first place.
The *bard* still has to meet the prerequisites, though, which limits the impact of many of those feat capstones to the late campaign, and also impacts their own build heavily. Heck, in many of the APs they'd never even be able to pick Greater Vital Strike, for example, because they end before level 16 (when the bard would first be able to buy it, and even then only with a dip to something with a bonus feat, since the bard's first feat where it meets the prereqs on a single-class build is 17.)
So many of those things you listed are for pretty niche situations or would only likely be useful to one other character in a typical party. From the whole list, maybe Shatter Defenses would be a bit tough to deal with at times? Spell Perfection isn't a combat feat in the first place.
Ok yeah, spell perfection isn't a combat feat, so it's out.
But, you could have any of these combos online at the following levels (possibly even multiple of these combos at higher levels):
7 Bard = everyone has Combat Patrol
9 Bard, 1Bard/6levels of 4/4 class, or 1Bard/8levels of 3/4 class = everyone gets Greater Grapple, Greater Bull Rush, Greater Trip, Greater Dirty Trick, Greater Disarm, Shatter Defenses, Step Up & Strike, Gorgon's Fist, Monastic Legacy, or Ascetic Strike
1 Bard/8Brawler = Everyone has Pummeling Charge
1 Bard/6 Fighter = Everyone has Disruptive
1 Bard/10 Fighter = Everyone has Spellbreaker
1 Bard/11 Fighter = Everyone has Teleport Tactician
1 Bard/11levels of any 4/4 class = Everyone has Medusa's Wrath
10 Bard, or 1Bard/9levels of any class = Everyone has Improved Blind Fight
15 Bard, or 1Bard/14levels of any class = Everyone has Greater Blind Fight
1Bard/15levels of any 4/4 class = Everyone has Exhausting Critical or Blinding Critical
1 Bard/16levels of any 4/4 class = everyone gets Greater Vital Strike
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TLDR: This is broken. And this would get super fancy reeeaal quick if you had two PC's with 1Bard/AnyClassX doing this nonsense.
A 1Bard/6Brawler could select two feats as a Move Action with Martial Flexibility and then grant them to his group with a Standard up to three times per day. So that's 3x per day, MF: Imp/Gr Any Combat Maneuver and then War Chant: Greater Any Combat Maneuver to everyone, and he could maintain this for 4 + his Cha rounds per day.
Bonus points if you take Maestro of the Society trait for +3 performance rounds per day, or take Lingering Performance.
This still doesn't scream broken to me, or particularly better than just giving everyone +2 to hit and damage. It does sound useful, but I don't think 7-10 rounds of greater trip (or whatever) being handed out to what in most groups will maybe be 1 or 2 other characters who can make decent use of it is anywhere near game breaking.
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After thinking it over for a bit and doing some research, I think I would modify my earlier answer and rule it as acting (mostly) like the Skald's ability to grant rage powers to allies. That ability is better worded and is more limited, but there are two key points.
1) If the rage power’s effects depend on the skald’s ability modifier, affected allies use the skald’s ability modifier instead of their own for the purposes of this effect.
2) If a rage power requires another rage power, the skald cannot grant that rage power to allies unless he can also grant that power’s prerequisite.
It's not exactly a 1:1 map, but I would translate those clauses to say this about the Dwarven Scholar ability:
1) If the feat depends on the Dwarven Scholar's statistics, affected allies use the Dwarven Scholar’s statistics instead of their own for the purposes of this effect.
2) If a feat requires another feat, the Dwarven Scholar cannot grant that feat to allies unless he can also grant the prerequisite feat.
Yeah, I would just look at any similar ability that is worded better for comparison and clarification... if it quacks like a duck...
Given that the upgraded ability clearly acknowledges the existence of prerequisites, we can assume that the initial ability simply forgot to mention that people must meet the prerequisites to get the feat. Poof, problem solved.
The Dwarven Scholar can, at most, hand out two feats at a time... so it's meant for situational stuff the murderhobos couldn't fit into their complex, feat-intensive builds. Blind Fight is an excellent example. Combat Reflexes. Really simple stuff like that.
There's nothing broken about it. In fact, I highly recommend VMC Cavalier with nearly any Bard that gives up Inspire Courage... so you can still contribute SOMETHING. Lol. With Dwarven Scholar, in particular, you can hand out combat feats and teamwork feats at the same time... now we are getting somewhere.
Still just a Cohort, though. The PC burns a feat on Leadership, and loads up their Dwarven Scholar with the feats they need to round out their own character... it is better action economy than using the Barroom Brawler feat for yourself... oh, and it possibly helps everyone else, yay.
Ascetic Strike (and certain other end-chain Style feats that don't require you to be in the style to use, like Pummeling Charge or Startoss Comet)Uh, no?
You can use a feat that has a style feat as a prerequisite only while in the stance of the associated style.
- And even if the GM lets you ignore that on the grounds of you not actually having the feat (which isn't unreasonable, actually), Ascetic Strike only does something for the "selected weapon" - and you only select a weapon with first feat (dito for Startoss Comet). Similarly, Pummeling Charge requires that "all of your attacks qualify for using Pummeling Style" - which they can't do if you don't have that feat. Also, almost all style feat followups say "while using <X style>" or a variation thereof, or otherwise require a previous feat of the chain to function.
Likewise Step Up and Strike only triggers when using Step Up, and can't do anything without it (similar to the Improved Cleaving Finish issue).
Greater <maneuver> feats would not prevent one from provoking AoOs when using the maneuver, so you'd have to also transfer the Improved <maneuver> feat. Exhausting Critical still requires a crit, which most builds aren't build for. A Skald can also grant the whole party Disruptive at 6th and Spellbreaker at 12th, and that has yet to break a game. Medusa's Wrath and Monastic Legacy only do something for unarmed strike based characters, and would require a multiclass Bard - and consider that an 11th level unMonk could flying kick a qualifying target for nine attacks during the turn a Monk10/Bard1 spends their standard action starting a performance to grant Medusa's Wrath.
Why anyone would want to have Gorgon's Fist or Combat Patrol is beyond me - you could grant them to anyone for free and no one would care.
From the whole list, maybe Shatter Defenses would be a bit tough to deal with at times?
Being flat-footed is between -3 and -4 to AC, based on the monster averages. In the same level range, a regular Bard grants +2 to +3 to attack rolls and damage rolls. Sounds balanced to me.
I'm genuinly interested to learn if there's a feat that would be overpowered - but I've not seen one yet.
That was quick, thank you!
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for free and no one would care.
From the whole list, maybe Shatter Defenses would be a bit tough to deal with at times?Being flat-footed is between -3 and -4 to AC, based on the monster averages. In the same level range, a regular Bard grants +2 to +3 to attack rolls and damage rolls. Sounds balanced to me. If you don't have Sneak Attack, flat-footed is not actually that nasty a condition to apply... and a Rogue heavy part could use the help, me thinks.
As the feat says "is flat-footed to your attacks until the end of your next turn", I agree.
If the opponent was flat-footed for everything, it would be way different.
It seems hard to break, honestly. Bards get zero bonus feats, combat feats are seldom universally useful, and the further you go into a feat path the more specialized it becomes.
Sure, if I dipped into Dwarven Scholar as a full BAB martial I could give out Medusa's Wrath or Improved Vital Strike at a "reasonable" level. But most of my party would just shrug at the feat they're not built to capitalize on. And multiclassing would of course result in awful action economy and a low amount of rounds per day.
An idea would be to go Cleric of Shelyn with the Divine Expression and Sacred Summons feats. It solves the action economy issue and as you summon your own allies you can make sure that the feats granted are useful to them.
Grant Divert Harm to a herd of communal mounts mixed in with an aoe spell. That's the best I can do.
I still say this is bad juju, and not per the intent of this ability. It makes zero sense that the 2nd feat must have prerequisites but the first feat doesn't.
This is one of those abilities that makes perfect sense, and isn't confusing [at all]... unless you are trying to cheese it into something it is not. Like Bladed Brush. Lol. I feel the intent is quite obvious. Only a murderhobo bends $#!+ like this into a confusing pretzel.
If you just include the clearly forgotten, but obviously intended, line; "... to recieve the benefits of a feat, an ally must first be able to meet its prerequisites, if the feat has any..." Or what-TF-ever. Problem solved.
The upgraded version of the ability acknowledges prerequisites... so not even in its upgraded form does the ability ever eliminate prerequisites. Problem. Solved.
Does it says that allies can recieve feats they do not qualify for? Does thr ability state it does that? Monk bonus feats, Ranger Combat Style feats, all that $#!+ says that the class ability skips prerequisits... why would the Bard ability do it, but not state it? Because the general rule is that people can only use feats they qualify for. The Cavalier's Tactician ability gives allies feats they do not need to qualify for, and guess what... it says exactly that in the class ability.
I see no such language anywhere in War Chant... what's the question again?
The problem is that the example given of a feat with a limit is Stunning Fist which none of the Chanter's allies will meet the prerequisites before 6th level and even after 8th level the fighter has to have 13 Dex and Wis and you probably have to give him IUS with the first thereby spending an extra round of the ability on a prerequisite for an example in the ability text.
All of this is solved if you assume they don't have to meet prerequisites.