Well, there are luckily other models possible. Basic income for one, which I think we’ll see in some countries with high incomes, social security, and a lot of automation. That would free up people for “passion” and “art” projects without impacting at least a basic level of living.
Probably too many bridges too far in the US though….
Yeah, basic income, government intervention (theaters should all just be run by local nonprofits or managed by the city governments, it's absurd that they aren't already), and more companies embracing employee-owned or nonprofit models so they can just solicit the donations directly instead of passive-aggressively. I'm optimistic, even in America, but for now... well, yeah, there's a reason I never pirate tabletop products, even from companies I don't like.
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Which brings us to the whole "local governments should just socialize this artistic service since the service isn't really able to fund itself without artificially inflating costs of tangentially related products" thing, I guess. It's a very frustrating inevitability when discussing basically any unfortunate creative trend in America.
I'm not sure that I want the local city council opining on what games the store should stock if they're going to fund it from public sources.
I also don't know how it would solve the problem of women being surreptitiously stared at, since it's actually harder to remove a person from a publicly owned place than a privately owned one.
Yeah, it has flaws, but so does every system. I really meant more specifically theaters in that example, but you can substitute "NEftA" or whatever if you like. If we have to have a messy system governing art, I'd like to at least focus on disempowering the private profit incentive.
What if there were no discount for PDF? What if the PDF was the same as the price of the book...I can only speak for myself, I would stop buying them. The difference between the PDF and the printed book are the costs of printing and acquisition (shipping, etc.). The price of the PDF should simply be the printed price less the printing cost. Some PFDs (Lost Omens) are already over-priced.
Sorry for responding so late but I wanted to address a few things with my idea. Yes...there is a lot of cost with the manufacturing but personally? I think I am buying the content. I want these spells and this art and these classes. I want to support the creators and the company I love! I also think they could do cool stuff with it! Make the PDFs linked out. When a spell references another book, put a link to that book. When the PDF says "see page 39" you click and go to page 39! By giving the them more money they can make the PDFs truly special. The people who work on these books are pouring out their creative content and we should be paying a "fair" price for them.
Also I was saying that you would still get a PDF with a physical sub. I get the AP sub because I want both the PDF and the physical book. However, I don't want a large amount of hard covers. I don't have room for them. So I have to wait for them to be available on PDF and then remind myself to go them. This is easy for me because I am checking in every week but still. To have a digital sub would be wonderful and making it the same cost as the physical copy just makes sense to me.
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That's quite a wasteful suggestion
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I agree, you can resell them on Amazon for near list price.
Or as the Symbionese Liberation Front said, books, once read, make great bulletproofing. Though you probably don’t need to read them for them to be bulletproofing later. Nor, if you have read them, do you need to agree with or even understand the contents. Nor agree with or even understand the Symbionese Liberation Front.
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You’d be wrong.
And not sure why you’re not buying “either” or the whole “don’t cater to convenience” stance since the PDFs do exist separate the subscription.
If there was a PDF only subscription you wouldn’t be getting them earlier like some people do with the current model, you’re basically just asking for the books to be flat out releases earlier and earlier.
Paizo has repeatedly said this won’t happen, both in order to support brick-and-mortar stores and preserve their main source of profits.This. It's important to remember that TTRPG growth is done typically by word of mouth, organized play and these physical stores. If Paizo encourages folks to not go to their stores, it simply won't be profitable for them to carry Paizo books.Then I just won't buy either /shrug
Companies that don't cater to convenience don't deserve people's wallets. It's a terrible argument. More importantly, the reason for wanting digital content is vastly different to reasons for wanting books. I doubt a digital sub would cannibalize many book sales at all.
Then you clearly don't understand how cheap gamers can be.
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Then you clearly don't understand how cheap gamers can be.
Not quite sure though if that applies here. We already can get the rules for free (via Archive of Nethys). We can already get a huge lot of Golarion lore for free as well (Pathfinder wiki). And with just a bit of search, you can find an array of free (or at least very cheap) adventures to go with if you don't want to create your own or adapt those you already have (which in my case, would be enough to last for several lifetimes).
Add to that that you can already get the official adventures as pdf only, and I'd think that mose people that sub for the APs do so explicitely because they want to have them in book form, not because they have no alternative.
Yes, a digital subscription would mostly be a thing of convenience to me. On the other hand, my AP subscription becomes more and more of a hassle to me (for reasons Paizo can't do much about, aka international shipping and German customs/tax laws), so I'll probably end it at the end of SoT anyways. Maybe replace it with the Pathfinder Society subscription.
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If someone is demanding “PDF subscription or else” though all they’re asking for is permanently releasing all the products even earlier since almost all products are PDFs so you don’t have to have a sub to get them.
And again, if they did implement a PDF subscription they would have a set release, probably right on or just shy of the street date. Otherwise you’re Asking Paizo to permanently speed up their release schedule, which I doubt is feasible.
Then you clearly don't understand how cheap gamers can be.Not quite sure though if that applies here. We already can get the rules for free (via Archive of Nethys). We can already get a huge lot of Golarion lore for free as well (Pathfinder wiki). And with just a bit of search, you can find an array of free (or at least very cheap) adventures to go with if you don't want to create your own or adapt those you already have (which in my case, would be enough to last for several lifetimes).
Add to that that you can already get the official adventures as pdf only, and I'd think that mose people that sub for the APs do so explicitely because they want to have them in book form, not because they have no alternative.
Yes, a digital subscription would mostly be a thing of convenience to me. On the other hand, my AP subscription becomes more and more of a hassle to me (for reasons Paizo can't do much about, aka international shipping and German customs/tax laws), so I'll probably end it at the end of SoT anyways. Maybe replace it with the Pathfinder Society subscription.
Absolutely! I was referring to their claim that digital subs won't cannibalize book subs.
I wonder if digital subs are something that could be offered to those overseas...
While I appreciate the PF wiki, it only summarizes things. Usually you have to go to the source material for details.
Would anyone be interested in PDF only subscriptions if they were merely a convenience (auto billing and dropping of PDFs in Organized Play scenario style on the street date) and not a way to get the PDFs earlier?
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While I appreciate the PF wiki, it only summarizes things. Usually you have to go to the source material for details.
Archives of Nethys provides material in almost the exact same format it appears in the published product.
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Would anyone be interested in PDF only subscriptions if they were merely a convenience (auto billing and dropping of PDFs in Organized Play scenario style on the street date) and not a way to get the PDFs earlier?
Again, can only speak for myself, but getting the pdfs earlier has never been a deciding factor when it comes to the AP subscription. I have a huge backlog of books that I have still to read even going back to 1st edition, so that's the least of my concerns.
While I appreciate the PF wiki, it only summarizes things. Usually you have to go to the source material for details.
You're right of course, but if you don't mind fleshing the world out on your own, there's more than enough to work with. So if you don't want to spend money on the books, you certainly don't need to. (and my digital content folder certainly speaks to the fact that I'm not one of those people ^^).
Archives of Nethys provides material in almost the exact same format it appears in the published product.
I meant setting specific details. If AON has a map of the Crown of the World and a gazetteer on everything in it that's news to me
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Would anyone be interested in PDF only subscriptions if they were merely a convenience (auto billing and dropping of PDFs in Organized Play scenario style on the street date) and not a way to get the PDFs earlier?
I absolutely would be interested in that.
Charge me full price of the book and drop the PDF on street date. I don't need to remember to come and get every PDF of every product line I want. I don't have to pay for shipping to Europe. I don't have to pay VAT when the books arrive. I don't need to find space to store the books.
I don't know if Paizo is making more or less of a profit with a PDF sale. Chances are, they'd be making more.
But, as far as i gather, as soon as they offer a pure digital subscription of books they sell physical as well, they'd probably have to lower the volume of their print-runs. Which makes books more expensive.
Is it really so inconvenient to log into the Paizo store once per month, add all the wanted PDFs from that month to your cart and then buy them?
Is it really so inconvenient to drive to an FLGS once per month, grab all of the wanted books and then buy them?
The convenience argument is a dismissive one - as by and large the entire subscription model is about providing a convenience.
Is it really so inconvenient to log into the Paizo store once per month, add all the wanted PDFs from that month to your cart and then buy them?
Honestly, it's a bit of a pain, yeah. The store isn't exactly the greatest user experience.
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Is it really so inconvenient to log into the Paizo store once per month, add all the wanted PDFs from that month to your cart and then buy them?
As far as I am concerned, it is not. And I am already doing that with the books from the other lines.
Still would love to have all those subscriber tags shown under my nickname, and the only option that would ever happen would be with a digital subscription.
Also, as a German customer, the most convenient thing for me to do was to stop playing Pathfinder completely and just return to being a happy TDE player for the rest of my life. Everything's written in my native tongue, a great setting with tons of adventures and tons of support from the publisher and the community, way easier to find groups to play with, and I wouldn't be bothered with shipping costs like at all.
Not saying that I'll ever do that, but from that perspective, asking for a little bit more convenience doesn't seem to be terribly unreasonable. But to me, it's not a make or break deal.